bigtdawgwassupbro
Member
Let me pop the question. Have u had your bloods done since you started dummy
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Ment / test cycle and how much AI?
- Thread starter DrSauce
- Start date
Forthewin1123
Well-known Member
Hcg fucked me up bad!! Never had any issues woth acne.. ran some hcg e2 went stupid couldn't get down right away.. now I'm using Accutane 20mg ed for awhile..now 10mg eod and zero acne.. gonna drop it completely soon.. if.you use hcg start small.. I only did a total of 1000-1500 mcg a.wk for 2.5 weeks and my e2 went oit.of control and ruined my skin for almost 5 months
Habib
Banned
Cabergoline reduced that kind of gyno.
Arimidex will hardly do anything because that's progesterone, if it does it's because it lowers Test which lowers estrogen which lowers the conversion to progesterone.
Get some caber, 0.5mg/week.
Maybe even some letrozole.
bigtdawgwassupbro
Member
dont listen to that guy^ hes only 20 and didnt run a baseline hormone panel before he started juicing. srs
Alistair7
Member
As someone who has taken 5000iu a week of HCG for almost 2 years, I can say it definitely seems to be resistant to AI’s. What I have found helps tremendously is an herb called butea superba. It makes you naturally produce more DHT. Take with boron glycinate it works very well. I speculate that proviron, mast, or even primo would do the same thing.
I am fascinated with MENT but aromatize heavy so my plan if I ever try it is too add mast or primo with an AI to mange the estrogen and start very low dose ment and work my way up.
theotherguy
Well-known Member
Take a look at the list of side effects of caber and you won't be so quick to just take it or recommend it to others. IMO, if you have to have caber to run a compound, just stop running the damn compound, unless your livelihood requires you take these compounds.
There are other ways to combat these issues than frivolously throwing caber at them.
Yes, please do and don't come back. Your cunty attitude sucks.
MulberryTrees
New Member
Sorry, I don't have a source for that exact claim--the closest I have is an in vitro study about hCG and aromatizaiton in Leydig cells:
Acute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig cells by human chorionic gonadotropin in vitro.
Aromatization of testosterone in Leydig cells purified from mature rat testes was assessed. Leydig cells incubated for 4 hr with increasing concentrations of [3H]testosterone. At saturating concentrations of testosterone, human chorionic gonadotropin ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I don't understand enough about biology to say why an AI wouldn't work here. The only thing I can think of is, AIs have no means of entering Leydig cells.
From my crude understanding of AI's, there are two broad types: suicidal (e.g. aromasin) and non-suicidal (e.g. anastrozole).
Suicidal AIs permanently bind to the active site on the enzyme--this is where a substrate, e.g. testosterone, normally slots into to undergo conversion. Basically, aromasin plugs up the enzyme's conversion slot forever, making it useless.
Non-suicidal AIs temporarily bind to the allosteric site on the enzyme--this is like a control panel where the enzyme's activity can be modified. Basically, anastrozole binds here and tells the enzyme to deform, changing the shape of it's active site (conversion slot) so testosterone can't fit anymore (or, so already converted estrogen gets stuck).
No matter what AI you're taking, it has to bind to aromatase directly to work, so it makes sense that AIs just aren't making it into the testes. They'll still prevent conversion for whatever testosterone makes it out of the testes.
Anecdotally hCG seems to cause aromatization beyond what you'd get from exogenous testosterone, given equal Total T. The study above support this:
"This observation indicates that the effect of hCG is on stimulation
of the aromatase enzyme(s) and is not due to increased production of testosterone, the substrate for aromatase."
Also:
"The findings in the present study may explain the high ratio
of estradiol to testosterone that is found in patients with Klinefelter syndrome in which high LH concentrations are found in serum."
hCG works as an LH mimic (interacting with the LHCG receptor on Leydig cells), so the 2nd statement especially lines up with people's experiences on forums. Those with naturally high LH seem to over-convert to E2, and high hCG mimics this situation.
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MulberryTrees
New Member
Could you share a bit about your E2 on cruise, and what blasts work for you?
I'm a heavy aromatizer too, 150mg/week test puts me at a trough of 1400 TT and 95 E2.
Alistair7
Member
I only have blood work with E2 in range with 125mg test cyp a week with 12.5mg of exemestane E3D.
Have only done high test blast up 700mg a week and I had to take 25mg of exemestane daily to keep estrogen under control. Now that I’ve discovered great results with boron and butea, I would not need nearly that much AI.
Plan for my next blast is 750mg a week test C with 500mg of Primo. I’m very interested to see if I even need an AI with that much primo. (Hard to say, never ran it) If I don’t even need an AI, I’m interested in adding small dose of trest and then add the AI as needed.
I would like to gain about 15 more pounds of lean mass and then be done with blasting. I think I can maintain it all on 200mg a week test cruise. Maybe even less.
bigtdawgwassupbro
Member
whats your problem bro
MulberryTrees
New Member
Damn dude, 25mg a day!
I'm looking at primo too, it's just way too expensive to run at higher dosages. I'm gonna try it for a blast, and if it goes well, I'll have to learn homebrew. Primo will probably be a staple for me if I wanna avoid scarfing down AIs.
I'm on 500mg test prop with 250mg primo a week (also 100mg tren e per week, 25mg oxandrolone ed and 50mg NPP e5d). I'll never run AAS without Primo again. It completely negated the bloat I had on my first test blast.
I'm planning on running primo and masteron together on my next blast, along with test and injectable stanozolol. Ment definitely has me curious!
I'm planning on running primo and masteron together on my next blast, along with test and injectable stanozolol. Ment definitely has me curious!
Completely agree. Caber can fuck your dopamine system for life. Can push erratic behavior. I threw all mine out when I realized how horrible the withdrawals are. Don’t get me wrong, wanting sex 24/7 and to buy everything in sight is kinda fun but it’s non sustainable or safe
Alistair7
Member
You could probably drastically reduce AI use with mast but if your prone to hairloss, primo causes hair loss at a lesser degree from everything I’ve read from guys who use it.
I have no desire to home brew. Yes primo is very expensive and my favorite source just stopped making it which really pisses me off. I’m looking for a new source for it.
What I do is wait for a source to have a big sale then stock up. I’d rather do that then home brew. I don’t do AAS enough to resort to that. If several of my friends did AAS then it would be worth it for one of us to home brew and share.
Alistair7
Member
@MulberryTrees I just found this excellent post by @bodybuilder8806 here is a copy/ paste:
I'll give my experience, which doesn't apply to everyone. Mast and Proviron don't do anything to lower estrogen significantly for me, however they do increase the Androgen to Estrogen ratio and mitigate some E2 effects. If I run mast or prov higher than my testosterone especially at lower dosages I get low E2 symptoms even if E2 isn't low according to bloodwork and I feel like garbage, gains stall, and I stay fairly flat.
I'll give my experience, which doesn't apply to everyone. Mast and Proviron don't do anything to lower estrogen significantly for me, however they do increase the Androgen to Estrogen ratio and mitigate some E2 effects. If I run mast or prov higher than my testosterone especially at lower dosages I get low E2 symptoms even if E2 isn't low according to bloodwork and I feel like garbage, gains stall, and I stay fairly flat.
The one DHT derivative that is an exception for me is Primo. It directly competes with aromatase from what I've seen personally, and it lowers my serum Estrogen / E2 levels in my blood work significantly. I've found that running test : primo at a 2:1 ratio or near this works best, but things such as HCG can skew this a bit requiring slightly higher Primo. I doubt I'll ever use an AI again personally and when I feel like I'm running aromatizing compounds at high enough dosages where one may be needed I'll just put in some Primo for good measure.
I'll give my experience, which doesn't apply to everyone. Mast and Proviron don't do anything to lower estrogen significantly for me, however they do increase the Androgen to Estrogen ratio and mitigate some E2 effects. If I run mast or prov higher than my testosterone especially at lower dosages I get low E2 symptoms even if E2 isn't low according to bloodwork and I feel like garbage, gains stall, and I stay fairly flat.
I'll give my experience, which doesn't apply to everyone. Mast and Proviron don't do anything to lower estrogen significantly for me, however they do increase the Androgen to Estrogen ratio and mitigate some E2 effects. If I run mast or prov higher than my testosterone especially at lower dosages I get low E2 symptoms even if E2 isn't low according to bloodwork and I feel like garbage, gains stall, and I stay fairly flat.
The one DHT derivative that is an exception for me is Primo. It directly competes with aromatase from what I've seen personally, and it lowers my serum Estrogen / E2 levels in my blood work significantly. I've found that running test : primo at a 2:1 ratio or near this works best, but things such as HCG can skew this a bit requiring slightly higher Primo. I doubt I'll ever use an AI again personally and when I feel like I'm running aromatizing compounds at high enough dosages where one may be needed I'll just put in some Primo for good measure.
MulberryTrees
New Member
I hear you. I'd rather not homebrew either, but between it being cheaper and having more control over quality (cheaper to test a batch of raws than individual finished vials), that's the direction I decided on.
I've read Primo can cause pretty significant hair loss too but yeah, still less than Mast. Alot of it comes down to individual response I guess. I'm expecting to need at least a 3:2 ratio given how much I aromatize but only bloods will tell.
bigtdawgwassupbro
Member
Where da fuq do you guys even be getting brew powders and how much they cost?
theotherguy
Well-known Member
Check the underground, read some supplier threads, make a decision on which vendor you want to use. Usually their first post will tell you what they sell, and the last 10 or so pages of a thread will give you a good idea of how good or bad the supplier is.
Habib
Banned
dragon ordnance
