Moderate Advanced Strength and Mass Cycle

[MuskleSimpson]

Hello Meso Brothers,

Here are my fitness goals.

I'm asking if anyone else has had experience with stacking these compounds in this kind of cycle and would like to hear there opinion. Even if you have not I like hearing other advice.

Week 1-10 test e 300 mg 2xwk
Week 11-12 test p 100mg ED
Week 1-8 tren a 80mg ED
Week 1-4 dbol 50 mg ED (kick start and strength)
Week 8-12 winstrol 50mg ED
Week 12-16 PCT nolva 40mg ED clomid 25mg ED

I may add an AI if needed e3d but I dont see it needed greatly. I could always use a little nolva to clear any gyno if at all from test and dbol aromatizing to much, but test is only 600mg/wk. I do not want to kill my e2 much as my body does not mind having a little high estroidal. Any water weight in beginning will only help lifting heavy for joints. I've used Arimi befor and I do not like how it kills my libido or possibly mood.

I've ran Dbol and tren together befor and remember feeling and noticing the synergy of immense strength gains...which then equaled overall mass growth in size. I reached my personal best in bench press on these two compuonds stacked...at 365lbs for working sets of 8-10 reps each. And I weighed 190 at the time.
This is my goal now to bring my overall mass bigger..as it has declined slightly over the last 18 months because I have not been bodybuilding and suffered from an injury.
Instead I have been much more avid everyday in the sport of surfing which would require immense endurance and slow twitch muscle building. I weighed 170 about 6 weeks ago. I've always had good definition and a classic physique with large delts.
Now the past 4 weeks... I've been lifting and eating correctly for bodybuilding along with creatine supplements.
I'm one week in on my cycle these are my stats:

I'm currently:

5'10 185lbs 12%bf
Goal:
195lbs 8%bf
Basically lose 10 pounds of fat and gain 15 to 20 pounds of muscle.

I've ran winnie befor and absolutley LOVE the feeling of how hard my muscles become at end of a cycle reaching below 10 percent body fat. I feel winnie helps burn fat as well with HIT cardio training so I definitley want to run it at end of my cycle. I like feeling like I'm a granite statue. Lol (I know mast is good for this too..but it takes a while to build and clear system..plus i wanna stick to oral for shorter period. I got a gram of milk thistle a day to help liver along with vitamins!)

I also supplement everyday 10 to 20 grams of creatine, 5 grams of glutamine, 1 gram of milk thistle for liver support, 2 grams of Glucosamin HCI and MSM, 2 grams of fish/flax oil, and daily multivitamin.

My diet consist of roughly 200-220 grams of protein 400 grams of carbs, 100 grams of fat a day. I drink 2...40 to 50 gram protein shakes a day and have the remaining calories in 3 more meals.
This will be changing with trying to increase protein, lowering fat, and carb cycling between 400 down to 100..depending on days of cardio and strength training and latter part of cycle.

Ive been lifting for 15 years and my body type is a mesomorph. I adapt well and change fast to small variations in training or diet. Like I said my main goals are overall mass (I'll be working on compound movements) and to feel good building strength while doing it. But naturally I'll stay shredded from being anabaolic and eating clean.
Thanks for checking out log and anything to say.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Personally I'd end the cycle with the tren and one of the orals and skip the kickstarter oral. That's how I run my powerlifting meet cycles. Stay with "feel good" compounds starting out so I'm not feeling shitty by mid cycle and bring out the big guns later to break mid cycle plateaus and end on a strong note. If you really want a kickstart maybe start with test prop a few weeks.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

This^^^
Do not kickstart. Do not front load.

but 20lbs of clean mass isn’t happening in 12 weeks unless you’re purely genetically gifted. Reasonable expectations are important.

as far as the compounds, I find tren and anadrol more complimentary, but any oral you can tolerate works just fine. Skip the winny all together, it’s not really at home here.

Weeks 1-4
Test 300

weeks 5-8
Test 300
Tren Ace 500

weeks 9-12
Test 300
Tren ace 500
Dbol 50 ED

 

[ickyrica]

365lbs for working sets of 8-10 reps each. And I weighed 190 at the time

good hypothetical max. Ever powerlift?

 

[MuskleSimpson]

This^^^
Do not kickstart. Do not front load.

but 20lbs of clean mass isn’t happening in 12 weeks unless you’re purely genetically gifted. Reasonable expectations are important.

as far as the compounds, I find tren and anadrol more complimentary, but any oral you can tolerate works just fine. Skip the winny all together, it’s not really at home here.

Weeks 1-4
Test 300

weeks 5-8
Test 300
Tren Ace 500

weeks 9-12
Test 300
Tren ace 500
Dbol 50 ED

Ya I expect 20 lbs of "clean" mass to be a stretch but i have muscle memory and grow pretty quick. I'll put 15lbs in 3 months easy.
And I like dbol in the beginning...it puts on the mass and some water weight right away. Good as I start living heavier into the cycle. (I wrote all this lol) and I wanna keep my test and tren the same. I want more than low dose of test for all the reasons that come with higher test. Def more than 300 test a week. 2x week i.e. m/th 300 mg.

And yes this isnt a cycle ideal for winny as in a long traditional cutting cycle but I wrote my reasoning..I like it that compound in the end..especially when my bodyfat has dropped below 10.
Should I lower test towards the end of cycle for all the reasons one would have lower test...at that time the last 4 weeks or doesnt matter?
I was asking mainly about other peoples experience in effects and feeling and attributes of stacking tren and dbol..
This is 6th cycle...


@Mac11wildcat

 

[MuskleSimpson]

good hypothetical max. Ever powerlift?

That wasnt hypothetical that was my working sets of 8 to 10 reps..never would do max. If I maxed I would imagine I would of been able to hit 400

 

[MuskleSimpson]

Personally I'd end the cycle with the tren and one of the orals and skip the kickstarter oral. That's how I run my powerlifting meet cycles. Stay with "feel good" compounds starting out so I'm not feeling shitty by mid cycle and bring out the big guns later to break mid cycle plateaus and end on a strong note. If you really want a kickstart maybe start with test prop a few weeks.

@Perrin Aybara I like the idea of breaking mid cycle plateaus by ending with Tren..that's a pretty smart response.
But either way why would I feel shitty by mid cycle around week 6 or 8? Like I said I've had alot of experience with anabolics and lifting..I guess I just felt I wanted to go hard right out the gate haha. And I'm on week 2..I just weighed myself now and I weigh 190. 5 pounds is water weight but I'm already feeling pretty damn strong in the gym from just a week or two prior. The last weeks I'm gonna be out of tren and running long enough.
How fast does cardio improve after clearing tren out of the system?
Tren KILLS my cardio and it gets harddd lol

 

[Gbro]

Going hard out of the gate always makes you feel shitty around six to eight weeks.

 

[MuskleSimpson]

Going hard out of the gate always makes you feel shitty around six to eight weeks.

@Gbro Ya I could understand that..I mean maybe not SUPER shitty but I understand i wont be feeling like I was through the first two months.. :/

 

[Gbro]

@Gbro Ya I could understand that..I mean maybe not SUPER shitty but I understand i wont be feeling like I was through the first two months.. :/

As you know, Tren can get rough. Starting hard with that can have you beat up by then.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Ok so basically fuck everything I said. Got it.

know why frontloading and kickstarting is dumb as fuck? Because you’re providing zero ramp/periodization of gear during your cycle. You should be gradually adding gear over a cycle, not decreasing it. Your body is gonna see 600mg test, 500mg tren, and 50mg dbol up front and then poof, you replace two hard hitting drugs with winny.

Utilize the long ester test ramp, then add your tren and ride that for a couple weeks. Then add an oral to cap it.

you didn’t come here for advice. Let’s be real. You came here for confirmation of your method...

 

[MuskleSimpson]

Ok so basically fuck everything I said. Got it.

know why frontloading and kickstarting is dumb as fuck? Because you’re providing zero ramp/periodization of gear during your cycle. You should be gradually adding gear over a cycle, not decreasing it. Your body is gonna see 600mg test, 500mg tren, and 50mg dbol up front and then poof, you replace two hard hitting drugs with winny.

Utilize the long ester test ramp, then add your tren and ride that for a couple weeks. Then add an oral to cap it.

you didn’t come here for advice. Let’s be real. You came here for confirmation of your method...

No not looking for confirmation and I appreciate your comment. Thanks for advice and knowledge no need to think fuck everything you said and snap lol I typed in the beginning I'm not going to modify much but looking for peoples opinion or experience with stacking dbol and tren for strenght and equaling size. I do appreciate you replying..but I did type alot did you read it all. I was also explaining mindframe alot..everybody knows sometimes there own body and there isnt a do it one way for best results. It all depends on a person and there personal fitness goals or how they want to look or feel.
but maybe I'll re think about skipping winny for now and some adjustments. Thanks bro I was waiting for the comment on the harshness to my liver lol
To be completely honest..
I was going to do a complete different regimen and enter into npc contra classic but life changed and I'm moving from Nor Cal to SoCal and then to Hawaii where I'm backpacking for a sec and doing alot of cardio. This is over a period of my whole cycle. So schedule is alittle hectic. Looking to put on quick big gains and strength and mass and then end it with changing diet and upping cardio. My body adapts and changes quick. I like how rock solid I get from winny..
God blessed me being mesomorph and lifting for 15 years. Injuries suck though when you also charge xsports and get old ha..cheers mate.

 

[MuskleSimpson]

As you know, Tren can get rough. Starting hard with that can have you beat up by then.

Thanks maybe I'll rethink switching with finishing tren..I've ran it with winne befor for contest prep and it definitley has you gettin cut up quick but I dont like how I feel sometimes..cutting carbs suck lol

 

[Tonytone76]

What's up fellas, looking to see the best way to stack test prop..test e..tren e..and anadrol.. done a few cycles in the past but this is the first stack I've ever done.. my weight is 185 5'10 I'll have diet and training on point..

 

[MadBret]

@Tonytone76
Welcome to Meso. Go introduce yourself in the new members section instead of bumping this old thread. If you have some questions, ask there or start a new thread. Take care, bud.