More confused than ever!

[Checkmate69]

Hello everyone, I could use some help.
Age 50
6 ft 230 lb
Lifting on/off my whole life.
I did about 4/5 cycles about 10 to 15 yrs ago. Maybe one a year? Mainly test/deca, test/eq
First one did no pct because I was a real rookie and stupid. After being informed did pct of clomid/nolva.
About 8 years ago had an open heart surgery for a bad heart valve I had since I was a kid. All good for now.
I stopped lifting for a couple of years and put on about 20 lbs (250). Started lifting again a lot lighter than before but still really good workouts. Walk on treadmill almost everyday for an hour too.
A few years back I had low libido and fatique, test levels were low. Endo put me on androgel for about three years. Worked great at first then kind off felt like it was doing nothing. My insurance changed and no more endo or androgel. That was about nine months or so ago. Three months later had a friend get me some clomid. Did 25mg eod for two months then 12.5 eod for a month till I ran out. I was good for a bit now I`m back to VERY low libido. Can still get an erection but there is barely any sex drive. Testicles feel like they have shrunk down to nothing and flaccid penis is tiny now. Erect is not bad but not the soldier he once was.
I don`t want to go back on trt anymore or any cycles. My Doc, Endo and Urologist all refused to let me get blood work for estrogen. Think it might be high. I`m in good shape just some extra fat around stomach and chest, no gyno.
I was looking at Doctor Scally`s HCG, clomid & nolva protocol and was hoping that would get me going again back to normal.

Last CBC everything was in the normal range.
March 2017 test levels:
total serum: 221 range 348-1197 ng/dl
free: 8.53 range 5.0-21.0 ng/dl
% free: 3.86 range 1.50-4.20 %

My hemocrit and hemoglobin were just a hair over high end while on andro but are at the top end of normal now. total cholesterol is only 115. Blood pressure 122/80.
I do take 5mg amlodipine bestate for blood pressure and 10 mg atorvastatin for cholesterol but I`m hoping cardiologist will take me off them soon. I follow a pretty good diet with only occasional cheat meals.
Sorry for the long post but I want to cover as much as possible. I have read every post I could find on pct and shrinking testicles and trying to restart HPTA. Now I am more confused than ever! Seems like everyone has a different opinion.
I would love to know what you guys think I should try to reboot my system and get the manhood back up to par?
Thanks in advance.
BTW if anyone knows an "informed" endo in or around Scranton, PA please let me know. Most Docs don`t want to hear what I have to say.

 

[MANWHORE]

A long acting Test and an AI
Or AE .. when needed. .

Matter of fact I think I need some Adex myself

 

[MANWHORE]

O you wanna restart your own test?

Anyone ever use that new product
Like HCG but supposed to be better

 

[Checkmate69]

O you wanna restart your own test?

Anyone ever use that new product
Like HCG but supposed to be better

Not sure which product?

 

[Demondosage]

No sex drive, small penis that can't get fully erect, and fat? Why in the hell would you NOT WANT TEST??? You're turning into a sheep amongst wolves, are you ok knowing that will always be the case without test?? All this hpta startup talk for guys who have been in the dirt for years is pissing in the wind. I'm not trying to be an ass to you, I'm just giving it to ya straight. You could use hcg, clomid, adex, etc. Guess what's going to happen as soon as u stop??? Rt back to where u are. Congrats, you've wasted time and money. Good luck whatever route u go man, like I said I'm just giving the reality here

 

[MANWHORE]

No sex drive, small penis that can't get fully erect, and fat? Why in the hell would you NOT WANT TEST??? You're turning into a sheep amongst wolves, are you ok knowing that will always be the case without test?? All this hpta startup talk for guys who have been in the dirt for years is pissing in the wind. I'm not trying to be an ass to you, I'm just giving it to ya straight. You could use hcg, clomid, adex, etc. Guess what's going to happen as soon as u stop??? Rt back to where u are. Congrats, you've wasted time and money. Good luck whatever route u go man, like I said I'm just giving the reality here

And there you go haha
I could not have said it better

 

[Checkmate69]

No sex drive, small penis that can't get fully erect, and fat? Why in the hell would you NOT WANT TEST??? You're turning into a sheep amongst wolves, are you ok knowing that will always be the case without test?? All this hpta startup talk for guys who have been in the dirt for years is pissing in the wind. I'm not trying to be an ass to you, I'm just giving it to ya straight. You could use hcg, clomid, adex, etc. Guess what's going to happen as soon as u stop??? Rt back to where u are. Congrats, you've wasted time and money. Good luck whatever route u go man, like I said I'm just giving the reality here

I understand what your saying and I know your not trying to be an ass toward me. I appreciate you telling me like it is.
It just seems like Test is what got me in this mess to begin with. Androgel wasn't working much anymore and I didn't want to pin myself till I'm 80.
Reading quotes from Dr. Scally about restoring Hpta sounded promising.
Thanks for the input.

 

[nervje]

Being 50 i guess it is pretty normal to get the symptoms you have.
I dont think hcg/nolva/clomid will give you the desired results as they cant just magically restart your hormones and let you have the testosterone levels of a 20-30 year old.
In my opinion you should talk to your doctor about injections, since i also think theyre more reliable than androgel.
Once a week injection doesnt really hurt and itll put your soldier back into the frontline ready to fight any war.

 

[Checkmate69]

Seems like all you guys are leaning that way and I understand why. When I originally talked to my endo a ways back discussing gel vs shots he talked me into the gel. Said he could not let me do my own shots but I would have to come in each week. He doesn't except my insurance anymore so I'm looking for someone new.
It's a shame because Dr. Scally's protocol sounded promising and an end to all. But I guess I only read about arguments about it and have yet to see anyone post that they tried it and it worked for them. Guess that's my answer.
Thanks for the advice guys and I would love to hear from anyone who has done it, successfully or not.

 

[master.on]

Hello everyone, I could use some help.
Age 50
6 ft 230 lb
Lifting on/off my whole life.
I did about 4/5 cycles about 10 to 15 yrs ago. Maybe one a year? Mainly test/deca, test/eq
First one did no pct because I was a real rookie and stupid. After being informed did pct of clomid/nolva.
About 8 years ago had an open heart surgery for a bad heart valve I had since I was a kid. All good for now.
I stopped lifting for a couple of years and put on about 20 lbs (250). Started lifting again a lot lighter than before but still really good workouts. Walk on treadmill almost everyday for an hour too.
A few years back I had low libido and fatique, test levels were low. Endo put me on androgel for about three years. Worked great at first then kind off felt like it was doing nothing. My insurance changed and no more endo or androgel. That was about nine months or so ago. Three months later had a friend get me some clomid. Did 25mg eod for two months then 12.5 eod for a month till I ran out. I was good for a bit now I`m back to VERY low libido. Can still get an erection but there is barely any sex drive. Testicles feel like they have shrunk down to nothing and flaccid penis is tiny now. Erect is not bad but not the soldier he once was.
I don`t want to go back on trt anymore or any cycles. My Doc, Endo and Urologist all refused to let me get blood work for estrogen. Think it might be high. I`m in good shape just some extra fat around stomach and chest, no gyno.
I was looking at Doctor Scally`s HCG, clomid & nolva protocol and was hoping that would get me going again back to normal.

Last CBC everything was in the normal range.
March 2017 test levels:
total serum: 221 range 348-1197 ng/dl
free: 8.53 range 5.0-21.0 ng/dl
% free: 3.86 range 1.50-4.20 %

My hemocrit and hemoglobin were just a hair over high end while on andro but are at the top end of normal now. total cholesterol is only 115. Blood pressure 122/80.
I do take 5mg amlodipine bestate for blood pressure and 10 mg atorvastatin for cholesterol but I`m hoping cardiologist will take me off them soon. I follow a pretty good diet with only occasional cheat meals.
Sorry for the long post but I want to cover as much as possible. I have read every post I could find on pct and shrinking testicles and trying to restart HPTA. Now I am more confused than ever! Seems like everyone has a different opinion.
I would love to know what you guys think I should try to reboot my system and get the manhood back up to par?
Thanks in advance.
BTW if anyone knows an "informed" endo in or around Scranton, PA please let me know. Most Docs don`t want to hear what I have to say.

1 See if you can find a good endo

2 You need to get Estradiol blood tests as well.

3 If no good endo and Estradiol is low/low-hormal
you can try HCG 250 IU 2x/week, (that's a small dose)
retest for Total Testosterone and Estradiol in a month to tweak HCG dose and/or add an Aromatase Inhibitor if needed.

 

[Checkmate69]

1 See if you can find a good endo

2 You need to get Estradiol blood tests as well.

3 If no good endo and Estradiol is low/low-hormal
you can try HCG 250 IU 2x/week, (that's a small dose)
retest for Total Testosterone and Estradiol in a month to tweak HCG dose and/or add an Aromatase Inhibitor if needed.

Thanks for the advice. Definitely going to try to find a good endo.
Have a distant friend in the area who is an amateur body builder. We talked about aas in the past. Maybe he knows someone.
How long would I take the hcg if I took that path?

Reading some other posts I saw a few labs that I can order my own blood work if doc won't order estrogen. I will post results when the time comes.
Just wish there was some more researched and open minded docs in this area.
Thanks again.

 

[Checkmate69]

Recent bloods:
Test serum: 232 range:349-1197
Lh: 2.0 range:1.7-8.6
Fsh: 2.5 range:1.5-12.4
Estradiol: 23.4 range:7.6-42.6
All cbc in normal range but noticed hemocrit and hemoglobin on high end but within range.

Test definitely low. Waiting on an appt with a new endo. I'll see what he says.
Based on things I read sounds like secondary hypogonadism?
Can't wait to start some thing!

 

[Checkmate69]

Went to see a new endo, same as last unfortunately.
Not open to anything I had to say. Afraid of lawsuits going outside the box I suppose.
In response to other replies I received about stopping hcg, clomid, etc.. that when you stop you go right back to where you were.
Doesn`t the same happen when you stop test? Even worse if you don`t recover.
That`s the only reason I am exploring other options. I possibly might go back on TRT, not sure yet.
Clomid research has looked promising. Just "off label" so most docs won`t recommend. As for no long term studies here is research and info I have found:

Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management of hypogonadism. - PubMed - NCBI

How Clomid Works in Men

Clomid for Men with Low Testosterone Part One by Jeffrey Dach MD

https://patch.com/california/studiocity/the-best-testosterone-booster-for-men-with-low-testosterone-levels_93d136d2#.VBMfeVeyqjs

There is a bunch more that you can find linked off these.

I might just try clomid for a while and keep checking my bloods to see if it works for me.

I will keep everyone posted. Thanks for the PM`s for those in the same boat.