Most sustainable way using PEDs - User opinions

[espresso123]

Dear community,

in terms of harm reduction, what do you belive are the most sustainable PEDs when it comes to harm reduction (cardiovascular diseases, arteriosclerosis) etc. and ancillaries as well as proven supplements.

Not talking about using less or anything at all (which is obvious).

Often heard GH, Test, but what about the risk of left ventricular hypertrophy and long term use of GH leading to insulin resistance?


Would be glad to hear some opinions and learn more about it.

Cheers

 

[Sampei]

Test and low dose of HGH 4/5IU MAX and doing cardio few times a week to keep BG in check and use berberine if needed or Metformin or just reduce the HGH.

That's it. Anything else add more strain to the body. Of course if you have to blast 1G or test and HGH Vs 300mfg of test and 200mg of primo... The latter is healthier. So yes dosage does matter in the equation too.

 

[Big Sexy]

if you really want to play it safe. Test only. Low to moderate doses. Use food , rest, and correct training as your other tools

 

[Big Sexy]

Test and low dose of HGH 4/5IU MAX and doing cardio few times a week to keep BG in check and use berberine if needed or Metformin or just reduce the HGH.

That's it. Anything else add more strain to the body. Of course if you have to blast 1G or test and HGH Vs 300mfg of test and 200mg of primo... The latter is healthier. So yes dosage does matter in the equation too.

Great minds think alike ma boiii!!!

 

[LGOP528]

It depends on what you can handle and the damage you are willing to do to yourself. I am not sure of your experience with PED’s but my suggestion would be for you to become familiar with bloodwork and other medical test.

 

[espresso123]

Thanks for the responses so far.
I am doing my bloodwork frequently and do long term RR monitorings (beside doing them on my own daily) on top. Else I get my heart sono about 2x a year.

Yea dosage matters, but obviously the less the better in terms of health. Thats what I was saying.

I was not pointing out I was referring to the comparison between Test/GH regarding (especially) cardiovascular risks involved vs. AAS only when it comes to these important health parameters since I have not much knowledge about the direct impact on LVH by increased IGF-1 / GH levels.

 

[LGOP528]

Thanks for the responses so far.
I am doing my bloodwork frequently and do long term RR monitorings (beside doing them on my own daily) on top. Else I get my heart sono about 2x a year.

Yea dosage matters, but obviously the less the better in terms of health. Thats what I was saying.

I was not pointing out I was referring to the comparison between Test/GH regarding (especially) cardiovascular risks involved vs. AAS only when it comes to these important health parameters since I have not much knowledge about the direct impact on LVH by increased IGF-1 / GH levels.

You could get LVH from high blood pressure. A shit diet and a moderate dose of test alone could do this.

 

[espresso123]

You could get LVH from high blood pressure. A shit diet and a moderate dose of test alone could do this.

Thats clear, I am also aware of the presence of ARs in the heart muscle itself.
Where I am lacking knowledge is the impact of GH induced IGF-1 levels increasing the size of organs (also maybe directly causing LVH?). To keep the RR in range is crucial anyways to avoid it.

 

[LGOP528]

Thats clear, I am also aware of the presence of ARs in the heart muscle itself.
Where I am lacking knowledge is the impact of GH induced IGF-1 levels increasing the size of organs (also maybe directly causing LVH?). To keep the RR in range is crucial anyways to avoid it.

I don’t know enough to speak on that particular topic.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Cardio is an every day thing. Not BS bodybuilding cardio (low speed stair stepper for 20 minutes then being sedentary the rest of the day except when in the gym).

We're not talking about the bare minimum government guidelines.

Gotta be doing some cardio daily till you're breathing heavy. Plus going for walks frequently & taking breaks from being sedentary.

 

[egruberman]

Where I am lacking knowledge is the impact of GH induced IGF-1 levels increasing the size of organs (also maybe directly causing LVH?).

Much like anything else, it depends on the individual reaction.

 

[espresso123]

Much like anything else, it depends on the individual reaction.

Knowing already you are highly educated regarding these topics, I assume the individual reaction can be more prominent in some people and less in others.
Assuming all parameters being the same, would you say equivalent doses of AAS (while keeping RR in range) regarding results are more likely to cause LVH vs. Test/GH (RR in range aswell, excluding factor of accelerated process in case of cancer or developing insulin resistance) ?

If there is no scientific back up on that, based on your foundation of knowledge, what would be your opinion?


Question asked for the reason of long term harm reduction.

 

[egruberman]

If there is no scientific back up on that, based on your foundation of knowledge, what would be your opinion?

Geez, this is a tough one.

Barring other risk factors, I think it's safe to say that adding GH and chronically elevating IGF-1 is known to cause cardiomyocyte hypertrophy via the PI3K/Akt pathway. This would be dose dependent. This is presumably the same mechanism by which GH and chronically elevated IGF-1 might cause anabolism or specifically hyperplasia.

One presumes this is dose dependent with the common wisdom suggesting that 8-10iu/day is necessary to see hyperplasia, but that may just be the point at which is is discernible.

Even if all other risk factors are mitigated, including BP and hematocrit, myocardial fibrosis is still a risk, which may lead to various kinds of arrhythmia.

These pathological developments are all the product of the same mechanism that AAS and GH stimulates muscle growth. It would be nearly impossible to have the one without having the other to at least some degree.

These risks can all be mitigated to some degree, but not entirely eliminated. Telmisartan is an excellent ancillary in this regard is it helps to manage BP, is anti-fibrotic and doesn't blunt IGF-1 action.

In terms of other mitigations, daily zone 2, taurine, EPA, COQ10 would all be helpful. I suppose I'm presuming that one is already managing oxidative stress and inflammation as much as possible. If not, do that too.

Taurine is an interesting compound which I'm going to dig into a bit further. I knew it was beneficial for LVH, but in doing some more reading, perhaps more than I initially thought.

Finally, if one is committed to using AAS and GH and is willing to trade off some health for anabolism, then some monitoring is advisable. Regular ECG and occasional Cardiac MRI would go quite far in showing the progression of both LVH an myocardial fibrosis.

 

[Daddy Rabbit]

In my humble opinion I'd say just a true trt dose of testosterone not a 250 mgs a week cycle and a well balanced diet daily cardio of one's choice one could probably do it for many years and feel absolutely incredible.

 

[AlexDavis43]

In terms of other mitigations, daily zone 2, taurine, EPA, COQ10 would all be helpful. I suppose I'm presuming that one is already managing oxidative stress and inflammation as much as possible. If not, do that too.

If you're getting a good 30-60 minutes of zone 2 plus reducing sedentary behavior every day, that's a great mitochondrial tune-up.

Unsure if adding things like CoQ10 or PQQ would be beneficial or possibly muck up the redox balance that was peaked with actual cardiovascular exercise.

 

[LGOP528]

In my humble opinion I'd say just a true trt dose of testosterone not a 250 mgs a week cycle and a well balanced diet daily cardio of one's choice one could probably do it for many years and feel absolutely incredible.

On 200 mg my TT was round 400. My final TRT dose from a clinic was 320 mg and only got me to 800 TT. Should I only run 200 even if I can handle higher doses?

 

[espresso123]

On 200 mg my TT was round 400. My final TRT dose from a clinic was 320 mg and only got me to 800 TT. Should I only run 200 even if I can handle higher doses?

What was your injection frequency and when did you take your bloodwork? Cannot imagine getting just 800ng/dl on 320mg weekly. If thats true (not being offensive by any means), Id really be interested in how this could be possible if anyone could explain.

 

[LGOP528]

What was your injection frequency and when did you take your bloodwork? Cannot imagine getting just 800ng/dl on 320mg weekly. If thats true (not being offensive by any means), Id really be interested in how this could be possible if anyone could explain.

Once a week and blood was drawn right before injection. I was at maybe 900 when I went to 4 injections a week with the same dose. I switched to an online clinic. The first one had me going in once a week. They upped my dose slowly 6 weeks at a time. It was horrible.

I am not normal but just wanted to illustrate the importance of individual response.

I really don’t know why my best guess is I have a high clearance rate. I have always handled drugs and alcohol well. If anyone has an explanation, that would be awesome.

My natural TT was 207 but I was fat as fuck and I smashed a bag of hostess chocolate donuts with an energy drink right before the blood draw. Lmao

 

[LGOP528]

 

[egruberman]

Unsure if adding things like CoQ10 or PQQ would be beneficial or possibly muck up the redox balance that was peaked with actual cardiovascular exercise.

I’ve taken both while also doing 6-8 hours a week of zone 2z. Didn’t notice anything. Not sure that I would.