Muscle Memory

Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use

In my personal experience, I've found it very difficult to lose muscle beyond a certain point. And at that point, I still carry a lot of muscle. This has become more apparent as I've taken up cycling as a hobby in the past couple of years. This summer I went on a cycling tour and spent 4-6 hours on the bike every day for almost two weeks. I didn't lift at all and I ate everything I could - I increased my daily caloric intake from my usual 3500-4000 to 5000+. I considered this less than optimal conditions for muscle maintenance. Yet I lost a grand total of about ten pounds and retained my LBM and lost mostly bodyfat. Most people around me thought I looked better and noticeably more muscular. Maybe those persistent myonuclei had something to do with it.
 
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use

Just confirming; The number of nuclei increases, but cell number stays constant? So would the muscle memory be attributed to the increased potential for protein synthesis?
 
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use

For some people, especially those who have been training 10-20+ years, taking a couple of months entirely away from the gym every year is a good thing. The rapid transformation upon the return is incredibly motivating.

Yeah the past few years I have taken the month of December completely off from lifting. It's hard on me because I love to train, but, especially getting older, my body needs the rest. I generally lift "heavy" most of the year in the 6-8 range using more Dorian style training. My joints and all the little nagging injuries that accumulate through out the year when you're old, heal up, and then I hit it hard again come January.

After the first week getting back in the swing, the gains start coming good for a few months.
 
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use

Does this mean there's still hope for Arnold?
 

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Stuart Phillips, PhD
https://twitpl.us/t/dQcb

How long should drug cheats be banned? A recent very provocative paper from Egner and colleagues (A cellular memory mechanism aids overload hypertrophy in muscle long after an episodic exposure to anabolic steroids) suggests that cycles of anabolic steroids taken earlier in one’s athletic career might endow a degree of ‘muscle memory’. They used rodents and showed using imaging that prior administration of anabolic steroids increased the number of myonuclei per muscle fibre. That means, particularly if you subscribe to something called the myonuclear domain theory (each nuclei controls a defined space of myoplasm), that more nuclei would appear to endow your muscle fibres with the capacity to grow more. It also suggests that the earlier in life you do this the better the response might be. Loosely translated: get on the juice early in life and you may enjoy a long (lifetime?) advantage? Their provocative conclusion is thus, “Our data demonstrate that in least in mice, an episode of testosterone use may recruit a long lasting pool of excess myonuclei, and a persistent increased ability to regain muscle mass by resistance exercise in the absence of further steroid exposure. Thus, the benefits of even episodic drug abuse might be long lasting, if not permanent, in athletes. Our data suggest that the World Anti-Doping Code calling for only 2 years of ineligibility after a conviction for steroid use (http://bit.ly/1cudIOK) should be reconsidered. Thought provoking indeed?! Congratulations to Egner and co-workers on an interesting study!!
 
Years 0 to 12 - childhood (early & late)
Years 13 to 19 - youth (early & late)
Years 21 to 39 - primary (early & late)
Years 40 to 59 - middle age (early to late)
Years 60 to 80 - old age (early to late)
Over 80 - conscious, bonus! senile, better than nothing.

WoooHooo, I'm not old. I'm only middle age;)
 
Harridge SD, Kadi F. The lingering effects of testosterone abuse - it seems muscles have long memories. Scand J Med Sci Sports 2014;24(6):869-70. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sms.12382/abstract

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has testosterone and its myriad of related derivatives in the form of anabolic steroids on its list of prohibited substances. The study by Shalender Bhasin published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1996 (Bhasin et al., 1996) confirmed, in a randomized and controlled trial, numerous anecdotal reports that had long suggested that anabolic steroids promoted hypertrophy in human skeletal muscle and thus were performance enhancing.

By acting on androgen receptors expressed by myonuclei and muscle stem (satellite) cells, or through a rapid intracellular androgen receptor-independent mode, testosterone stimulates muscle protein synthesis to increase muscle mass (Kadi, 2008). Subsequent work from the group of Bhasin showed that there was a dose–response effect of testosterone enanthate not only on human muscle fiber size also on the number of muscle satellite cells and myonuclei (Sinha-Hikim et al., 2003).

The positive relationship between muscle cell size and the number of myonuclei was clearly demonstrated by Kadi et al. (1999) who studied a wide range of muscle fiber sizes, including extremely large fibres obtained from self-reported anabolic steroid users. This and other work (e.g., Petrella et al., 2006) provided the basis for the myonuclear domain and ceiling effect hypotheses.

Simply put, these suggest that each nucleus is responsible for managing a certain volume of cytoplasm and this has a maximum limit. If the myonuclear domain is below this “ceiling,” then an increase in nuclear transcription and protein synthesis can drive hypertrophy in the muscle cell. However, once this ceiling is approached, additional nuclei are required to facilitate further growth, these nuclei being donated by the satellite cells.

The group of Kristian Gundersen in Oslo published a report from studies on mice which demonstrated an increase in myonuclear number in response to overload, which was shown to be maintained after overload. Interestingly, this was shown to be maintained after overload had ended and in the face of a declining muscle fiber cross-sectional area (Bruusgaard et al., 2010).

This important observation prompted discussion about whether muscles might remain “primed” and more amenable to further hypertrophy at a later date. Given that anabolic steroids have also been shown to increase the myonuclear number in humans (Sinha-Hikim et al., 2003), would an athlete who had tested positive for anabolic steroid abuse and had served a 2-year competitive ban still be in position to reap the physiological benefits of the initial doping offence at a later date?

In other words, having returned “clean” and no longer taking the prohibited substance, would athletes still have an unfair advantage?

A second and more recently published study by Gundersen’s group (Egner et al., 2013) shows that this is a real possibility. In this study when mice received testosterone propionate for 14 days myonuclear number was markedly increased.

However, the unique part of the study was when the animals undertook a muscle loading regimen 3 weeks after drug treatment had been removed (i.e., when “clean”). The results showed that in the testosterone treated group mean muscle fibre area from the extensor digitorum longus increased by 31%, whilst there was no significant change in the sham treated animals.

Indeed, this positive effect on adaptation was still shown to be present even when a delay of 3 months (equivalent to approximately 10 years in humans) was given between treatment withdrawal and the onset of the loading intervention.

Thus, it seems that there is now convincing evidence to show that the administration of anabolic steroids can result in giving skeletal muscles “memory” in the form of more myonuclei, which results in a more adaptive response to training long after the initial effects of the drug have worn off.

These results provide a challenge to WADA in regard to the legitimacy of the length of competitive bans imposed on athletes, as it is now clear that there are serious concerns surrounding the reversibility, or permanence, of the drug-mediated performance-enhancing effects of anabolic steroids. However, given that muscle protein turnover rates are markedly higher in mice than in human beings, it is important that these data are confirmed in human studies.


 
My muscles remember when I was 230lbs,
but they are very lazy..
My legs even get jealous of my arms.
They feel my arms aren't putting in half the work as they are..

What am I supposed to tell them? HUH?
If they go on strike, I am done
 
I just got back in training after 8 weeks off do to surgery. Lost 15 pounds. My legs already look bigger after only 1 week. It's crazy how fast it comes back. I should take some before and afters
 
Definitely easy to get your muscles back to your natty limit size they were before, the real challange is to get them back to AAS induced size they were at one point ;)
 
I took a year off for personal prob/injury and man I held off getting back because I was so frustrated with were I was at. Well I finally started looking to get better a little everyday and it helped me get right back into the swing of things. In 6 weeks I'm basically back to normal. My major lifts are not at 100% but my minor lifts have actually improved which pumped me up a bit!. It took 3-4 weeks to reallysstart to see and feel back in to it but every week you'll notice some kind of improvement in my experience .
 
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