My attemp to Restart after 7 years of trt

[kenseth17cd]

Well, due to fertility reasons I am opting to attempt a restart. Also I am only 28 and I think it is still possible for my body to work on its own. First my expectations. Prior to any trt my highest total test was 450 after running 6oxo. So I don't expect my total test to be over 400 after everything is said and done. However my shbg is anywhere from 6-12, probably closer to 12 now that I have addressed my diet.
Here is what Im thinking of doing:
Weeks 1-5 HCG at 500ius 2x a week, Adex.25 mgs a week, also I am still on trt and will slowly taper off during the first 3 weeks on hcg.
Weeks 6-7 Hcg at 250ius 2x a week, Clomid 25mg ed, Adex .25mgs a week.
Weeks 8-12 Clomid 25mg ed, Adex .25mg a week
Weeks 13-20 Clomid 25mgs eod Adex .25mg a week
Weeks 21-24 Clomid 12.5mgs eod, Adex .25mgs a week
Wait 2 months and get labs drawn.
Will also be supplementing with Vitamin D at 10,000iu a day,ZMA at night,Fish Oil.
Try to avoid overtraining which I have done since I was about 12 years old.

Any suggestions or modifications would be appreciated.

 

[zkt]

Well, due to fertility reasons I am opting to attempt a restart. Also I am only 28 and I think it is still possible for my body to work on its own. First my expectations. Prior to any trt my highest total test was 450 after running 6oxo. So I don't expect my total test to be over 400 after everything is said and done. However my shbg is anywhere from 6-12, probably closer to 12 now that I have addressed my diet.
Here is what Im thinking of doing:
Weeks 1-5 HCG at 500ius 2x a week, Adex.25 mgs a week, also I am still on trt and will slowly taper off during the first 3 weeks on hcg.
Weeks 6-7 Hcg at 250ius 2x a week, Clomid 25mg ed, Adex .25mgs a week.
Weeks 8-12 Clomid 25mg ed, Adex .25mg a week
Weeks 13-20 Clomid 25mgs eod Adex .25mg a week
Weeks 21-24 Clomid 12.5mgs eod, Adex .25mgs a week
Wait 2 months and get labs drawn.
Will also be supplementing with Vitamin D at 10,000iu a day,ZMA at night,Fish Oil.
Try to avoid overtraining which I have done since I was about 12 years old.

Any suggestions or modifications would be appreciated.

Got any data on LH/FSH ?

 

[kenseth17cd]

Last time they were checked on TRT they were basically nonexistent I guess due to 7 years of TRT. I can dig them up if you need me to, but Im pretty sure it was very close to 0 for both.

 

[kenseth17cd]

The last time I ran Clomid my LH was up to 6.8 and test was 241, this was after coming off trt and test was 96 prior to this and lh was <.02. These results were 5 weeks into clomid. Only ones I have found so far.

 

[zkt]

Its perfectly normal for LH/FSH to tank on exogenous T; the feedback mechanism. Any numbers prior to starting TRT? Not sure if you are primary or secondary.

 

[kenseth17cd]

Unfortunately no I do not, my Dr was not very wise and immediately put me on trt after a couple 300-350 total test results, he didn't know anything about shbg and mine is always low 12 or less. I have a small varicocele, also used pro hormones from age 16-20 or so with no pct, not knowing what I was dealing with such as superdrol, halodrol..... I found where after using 6oxo my test was 459, but prior to that it was usually 300-350. A little background that may or may not help, I went through puberty early had a hairy chest and mustache in 6th grade, it seemed as if I stopped growing at that point. My penis also seemed to stop growing around 8th grade, not trying to be too personal but don't care to share info in order to gain help. Erect it is only 5.7 inches long using calipers. I have a full beard, hairy chest and back, but in my opinion smaller than average testicles and penis even before being on trt. Also my muscle definition is no where close to what it should be I have worked out and participated in sports since I was 12 and have very very little muscle. However I gain strength fairly easily. Idk if any of that helps but there you go.

 

[kenseth17cd]

Also have had mri with no pituitary problems and prolactin is normal.

 

[zkt]

Well then its a no brainer isnt it? If you want to have a baby TRT is out. Actually its a pretty good form of birth control due to the FSH/LF supression.
When it comes to restoring testicular function and size it is best to mimic the innate function: lots of variation within the normal range with ocassional large variations outside. You have to look at the situation from the aspect of the LH and FSH receptors. The usuak way to access testicular function is to saturate the receptors >1500iu a time or two and test LH and FSH.

Here is what Im thinking of doing:
Weeks 1-5 HCG at 500ius 2x a week, Adex.25 mgs a week, also I am still on trt and will slowly taper off during the first 3 weeks on hcg.
Weeks 6-7 Hcg at 250ius 2x a week, Clomid 25mg ed, Adex .25mgs a week.
Weeks 8-12 Clomid 25mg ed, Adex .25mg a week
Weeks 13-20 Clomid 25mgs eod Adex .25mg a week
Weeks 21-24 Clomid 12.5mgs eod, Adex .25mgs a week
Wait 2 months and get labs drawn.
Will also be supplementing with Vitamin D at 10,000iu a day,ZMA at night,Fish Oil.
Try to avoid overtraining which I have done since I was about 12 years old.

Any suggestions or modifications would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

 

[kenseth17cd]

I know this is gonna be a long process maybe even a year, do you have any suggestions/modifications to my restart. Or could you lay me out a 6 month restart using hcg and clomid and adex that would be better? Thank you for your help.

 

[zkt]

I know this is gonna be a long process maybe even a year, do you have any suggestions/modifications to my restart. Or could you lay me out a 6 month restart using hcg and clomid and adex that would be better? Thank you for your help.

Honestly, I think that no one can do a better job than you. If your life is stable and you wake up in the morning happy to be here at least once in a while then you are the man on the ground.
Dont hesitate to call for backup.
Maybe a little heavy on the AI.

 

[kenseth17cd]

Ok thank u man, im gonna need some support but if i could come out of this i know it would help a lot of the other younger guys in trying to get off trt. I read about a guy very similar to me that it took 2 years but his levels finally came up to a good range and hes happier than being on trt, it motivated me a little bit.

 

[Tyler81]

Hey man

7 years of TRT is a long time but i think you are still overthinking it.

My recommendation would be,
Clomid 25mg for 30 days followed by,
Clomid 12.5mg for 30 days.

Done.

Clomid is ridiculously powerful and you might even be able to get away with eod and possibly 12.5mg the entire time. However, if you feel paranoid that your nuts need a jump start the 25mg will do it for you.

Hcg is not needed to come off. Adex is not needed.

I am doing this myself btw (i have the clomid sitting on my shelf infact i am looking at it right now) -- just has been crazy at work so once it dies down i will do it. Possibly end of this week actually.

Coming off treatment is tough and it requires a FULL COMMITMENT.

If you are only half committed you will cave to the pressure to go back on and negate weeks or even months of recovery.

So only come off when you are mentally and emotionally ready to come off 100%

That's why I am waiting until my lifestyle circumstances are a bit slower bc i know if things are too hectic or stressful coming off treatment is just another stressor that will really cause alot of headaches for me.

After the 3 week mark, i think you will be golden... ! Gluck

 

[kenseth17cd]

Thanks Tyler I actually was thinking about you today wondering how you were doing. Im def committed now, the way I see it is im young and I have the rest of my life if it doesn't work to go on trt. So, Im going all out this time. Remember I tried the restart last time for about 8 weeks and prolly should have given it much more time because I was seeing improvements. I already paid for the hcg so I might as well try it. The Dr gave me enough clomid to run 25mgs for 3 months and said if I want more just to call. So, I will prolly run it for at least 3 months. I know a lot of guys run it for 6 months for fertility with no issues, but only time will tell. I plan on getting labs in week 5-6 and see whats going on and alter if I need to. But thanks and good luck to you as well.

 

[kenseth17cd]

Well I have started my exit of TRT. I have tapered my dose of test from 40mgs e3d down to 30mgs e3d and now down to 22 mgs, I will take one my injection of test in 3 days of 10mgs and after that my body is on its own. I have been injecting 500ius of hcg eod this week, 3 injections so far. I will continue the 500ius for 1 more week, then drop down to 250ius eod for 2 more weeks. Then Im gonna go with clomid at 50mgs the first 3 days, then 25 mgs for at least 2 months with a gradual taper. Fingers crossed.

 

[kenseth17cd]

Found some labs after 3.5 weeks on clomid last time.
Lh 5.5 1.5-9.3 range
FSH 4.0 range 1.4-18.1
Does this tell if im primary or secondary or anything useful. Prior to the clomid both were 0.

 

[idmd]

Found some labs after 3.5 weeks on clomid last time.
Lh 5.5 1.5-9.3 range
FSH 4.0 range 1.4-18.1
Does this tell if im primary or secondary or anything useful. Prior to the clomid both were 0.

LH by itself means little with no testosterone result.

 

[tendency]

Well I have started my exit of TRT. I have tapered my dose of test from 40mgs e3d down to 30mgs e3d and now down to 22 mgs, I will take one my injection of test in 3 days of 10mgs and after that my body is on its own. I have been injecting 500ius of hcg eod this week, 3 injections so far. I will continue the 500ius for 1 more week, then drop down to 250ius eod for 2 more weeks. Then Im gonna go with clomid at 50mgs the first 3 days, then 25 mgs for at least 2 months with a gradual taper. Fingers crossed.

good luck on this given your age i agree you gotta see if you can go natural. natural is always, always better than replacement assuming you can restore healthy endogenous functioning .. few thoughts:

- cut the T cold turkey no need to taper w/ hCG. saves you some time.
- i'd run at least 1000iu hCG for a couple weeks e3d especially given you've been shutdown for 7 years. hell, id probably do 2000 given your situation..
- you need to stay on hCG until the T has cleared your system. that's why 4 weeks of hCG is recommended.
- you must get a TT level done after about the 7th shot or so to make sure you're responding
- get TT and LH done after a couple weeks on clomid. you can crank this to 100mg/day split in two 50mg doses morning/night if you're not getting a sufficient response on 50 alone.

 

[kenseth17cd]

The reason that I am tapering the test is I don't wanna hit a hard wall of no test in my body. HCG should work even on low dose test if not people wouldn't use it on trt or on cycle. I would like to take a higher dose of hcg but I aromatize so bad that I don't think I can handle a higher dose. I think I will stick to 500ius eod for at least 2 weeks then taper down to 250ius eod then clomid. I may take one more shot of test depending on how I feel. What is funny is I have been so horny and attracted to women the past two days, idk why?

 

[kenseth17cd]

Little update although not very interesting yet. Took hopefully my last test injection for at least 20 years. Since 8-12-13 I have been taking 500ius of hcg eod and tapered my test dose down from 40 mgs e3d to 8mgs e3d which is what I will end on. I did this due to I know I am severely shutdown and if I stopped the test shot cold turkey my test level would plummet to near 0 level. So I gave the hcg a couple weeks to start working before completely ceasing the test. Also taking .25mgs of adex as needed. So far I have felt great, but I think that happens anytime I have a big change in my protocol. It seems like the swing in hormones in one direction or the other always yields good libido, erections, mood...... But here we go, I will take 500ius of hcg eod for another week, then drop to 250 ius for 2-3 more weeks, get labs, then go onto clomid. Prayers and thoughts appreciated.

 

[foreveryoung]

please don't take this as trying to influence or criticise or anything like that because it is just me reflecting on my own life, but reading your thread made me think of the 7 years that I went off of everything and went natural, now looking back I really consider those like 7 "lost years" in my life, where I wasn't living to my potential, actually far below, if I could turn back time I wouldn't do it that way again, the reasons that made one go on in the first place don't go away the second time around, but living a different lifestyle might be desirable for some, there are plusses and minuses to every path, even monks in a monastery must enjoy large parts of their lives

good luck to you in whatever path you choose, we only have one go around in life, so live it to the best of what you want out of life, it does go by too fast