MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
My journey from permabulk to get jacked
- Thread starter Eddie.
- Start date
I was going to comment on that side chest but man you're so DENSE it's nuts, but that side chest is seriously amazing.
Also, you have such a prominent vastus femoris, I love it.
That's such a low dose of Tren you're running (200mg Tren E, no?); do you feel that it has made a difference? Sides?
I'm thinking of doing this during longer progress phases (5-6 months) where I add a low dose tren at the end to push slightly further.
I support this plan!
That said, don't worry about food too much, you earned this brother. Maybe you'll drop some cortisol and water and end up looking even leaner! Just enjoy yourself.
Eddie.
Member
Thank you very much man!
Hey brother, thanks a lot! It seems side chest and tricep it's the pose i look the best. I can only imagine how it would look without the skin flaps, i guess you can see it under the nipple area and towards the armpit. Without this i guess i'd be more vascular and hard but whatever. I have a couple competitors in my gym (one with a pro card) who tell me to rethink competing but that would require surgery first. Not in the mood TBH but it would be fun if progress goes well in the upcoming couple years.
I loved tren brother. Hasn't give me any side so far except a little increase in my systolic which creeps at the low 120's for the first time. Honestly, if it ain't skewed anything major on my bloodwork (i'm worrying mostly for my kidneys) then i'd definitely think to add it in last weeks of the off season.
I used Ace since it's the first time and i wanted to see how i handle it. I went from 10mg a day to 15,20,25 and last probably 6 weeks at 30mg so 210mg Tren A. 2 vials exactly for my cutting phase.
I don't get any immediate stimulation from tren, or feeling wired all day like some guys. It makes me actually calmer, more confident, obviously more hard and dense, workouts were perfect, strength was there and with the right playlist i had that anger in training but only during training and only towards the weights. Also, i won't suggest it to anyone without a girlfriend, wife or multiple holes to fill in general. It makes me horny AF..literally, i loved it. I wish i could run it all year round haha.
I hope so man, mostly for psychological aspects. It would be a pity looking good and in just one week turn to a dadbod haha. Ofc it's impossible to actually get so bad but water retention might mask things.
Thing is the off meals i want contain high fats, so going from 50gr fats to 200gr fats for 5 days won't be the best thing but i'll clean it up from the next week.
Side note: Ivabradine worked like a charm at 5mg x 2. I'm into high 60's rn from low 80's.
It's hardly noticeable; I only saw this when you pointed it out. I guess what I'm trying to say is, we tend to be a lot more critical of ourselves than others, but I also understand that it's not always easy not to be.
You definitely have enough mass on you, and I reckon you'd look even better with even MORE mass; probably get that skin tighter as well.
Despite the low dose it's probably still stronger than 500mg test, lol. That's great that it hasn't given you much trouble, I'll be hoping for a similar experience if I do decide to incorporate it at some point, haha.
That's absolutely not going to happen brother, and water retention is just that; water. It goes away after 3 days of getting back on track, so don't stress too much!
Ivabradine's such a great drug, man. I gave my brother Nebivolol a couple of weeks back and that has fixed all of his RHR issues but also gave him the same extreme lethargy it gave me (couldn't stay awake for me than 4-5 hours at a time), but it surprisingly went away after 1 week of use.
rexy
Member
PCT sells a sustained-release version of ivabradine, 10mg per tab. It's not on the price list. I prefer it vs. the short-acting just because I personally notice the drop off during the day before second dose, so if you feel you would benefit from it or prefer once daily dosing, maybe consider giving it a try next time you order.
In reality I keep both on hand for flexibility, but you can also split the 10mg sustained release and it acts close to instant release anyway because it reduces the ability of the coating to delay it.
PCT don't advertise it as SR but just ask for the Iva 10mg because it's the only one that comes in 10mg dosing (it comes as 10mg x strips of 10, priced at $8.50 per strip vs. the 5mg instant acting that's $5.50 per strip).
also, I peruse PM (under a different name as that profile was made in around 2013), and saw the recent advice Luki and TD gave you r.e recomping and calorie balancing across the week. Particularly r.e rest days. The suggestion was a surprise to me. I have to say, it's a protocol I'm going to follow myself, being a former fatty. Luki's experience reveals some really get insights.
Eddie.
Member
Unfortunately pct doesn’t ship to my country. I will evaluate later for Ivabradine, I’d prefer to avoid using it year round. If I manage to find a decent dose of Reta without messing too much with rhr I’ll drop it.
As far as lukis approach I find it interesting and not far from what I was planning but tbh I may skip the part of going in deficit in NTD.
1000kcal per week surplus seems way to little for me and honestly it’s very hard to pinpoint exactly that amount since every day your maintenance changes.
In my previous push phase I had something like 5000-6000 kcal surplus per week and I added 12-13kg in 18 weeks. This time I’m gonna go lower but I still wanna see some increase in scale. There’s no other way around from the moment I wanna add 10-15kg of lean muscle long term. By staying in a very small surplus it will take me years while slamming the gear.
I think I’m enjoying more the in and out phases of cutting and pushing while not going crazy in weight fluctuations. It’s like a new challenge every time instead of looking almost the same and weighing almost the same for months upon months.
As far as lukis approach I find it interesting and not far from what I was planning but tbh I may skip the part of going in deficit in NTD.
1000kcal per week surplus seems way to little for me and honestly it’s very hard to pinpoint exactly that amount since every day your maintenance changes.
In my previous push phase I had something like 5000-6000 kcal surplus per week and I added 12-13kg in 18 weeks. This time I’m gonna go lower but I still wanna see some increase in scale. There’s no other way around from the moment I wanna add 10-15kg of lean muscle long term. By staying in a very small surplus it will take me years while slamming the gear.
I think I’m enjoying more the in and out phases of cutting and pushing while not going crazy in weight fluctuations. It’s like a new challenge every time instead of looking almost the same and weighing almost the same for months upon months.
rexy
Member
I agree on the Iva year round thing - I just use it when I need to. One of the reasons I keep the short acting on hand.
I only find it necessary when on GH and Tren really, so even the long acting stuff I still just use on and off sometimes.
I did have that at the back of my mind regardling time and how difficult it is to track 1000 across the week. You've made me think twice as that context often gets lost and probably did when it was suggested to you. We don't have forever in our 30s to add mass lol.
Anyway, what you're doing clearly works so it'd be a shame to get sidetracked by going with an approach that just takes forever and doesn't provide the enjoyment aspect you mentioned.
BabaJagga
Member
holyshit man...
A 1000 calorie surplus (over the course of the week) is so negligible that it feels like a complete waste of a cycle, honestly.
In fact, it doesn't really make sense to think of a surplus during a growth phase in the same way we do a deficit; in a deficit things even out eventually because all you're after it fat loss (not time restricted), but in a surplus the window that each trained muscle has in which it will utilize those added calories is time restricted, so the surplus HAS to be present during that window.
Also, I do not like the idea of a deficit on off days because the muscle trained on the day before is probably still actively trying to pull nutrients in (isn't MPS elevated up to 48 hours after training?). This is especially important to note if training late the night before.
I personally think upward of half a kg a week is acceptable (not too much fat gain, at least in the short run), but I do like a smaller surplus, so closer to 0.25kg/0.35kg a week.
Plus, having to diet for 4 weeks to shave off 3-4kgs of fat is so easy I don't see the point in possibly limiting your potential (which is great) out of fear of some measly low-effort cut.
rexy
Member
I think that data comes from naturals? I suspect it's probably longer in AAS users (or maybe just more intense for the same period of time perhaps).
I'd imagine for any one leveraging HGH, or gear that focuses on the anti-catabolic pathways vs. just MPS, that'd help extend it. Maybe this is why the bro splits can work although I'm a frequency guy myself.
Even if we assume that's the case (it probably is), the elevation and repose from a trained muscle isn't constant in naturals; it starts high and gradually goes down as we near the end of that elevation, and we have no reason to believe that gear does anything but enhance that effect.
In other words.; it makes no sense to be in a deficit the day after you train a muscle, considering that MPS might still be strongly elevated for at least a day after, and even if somehow that isn't detrimental to muscle growth, it sure is not optimal, especially in a context where growth is a priority.
This is all done to limit fat gain and improve insulin sensitivity, but I don't think it's effective or warranted considering such a small/reasonable surplus.
I'm a frequency guy as well.
rexy
Member
Sure, when growth is a priority it all makes sense.Even if we assume that's the case (it probably is), the elevation and repose from a trained muscle isn't constant in naturals; it starts high and gradually goes down as we near the end of that elevation, and we have no reason to believe that gear does anything but enhance that effect.
In other words.; it makes no sense to be in a deficit the day after you train a muscle, considering that MPS might still be strongly elevated for at least a day after, and even if somehow that isn't detrimental to muscle growth, it sure is not optimal, especially in a context where growth is a priority.
This is all done to limit fat gain and improve insulin sensitivity, but I don't think it's effective or warranted considering such a small/reasonable surplus.
I'm a frequency guy as well.
What Luki had suggested was a constant recomp, because he assumed Eddie would be prone to dirty bulking when he saw he used to be over 300lbs. What I think he may have missed in retrospect is that Eddie is advanced to the point recomp is going to be diabolically slow now - he's already so lean there isn't anything to recomp LOL. i mean, he'll have seen that, but then also overestimated his chance of getting fat vs. managing to stay relatively lean when he read his history. Then figured going a recomp route was on-balance a preferable choice. Lacking full context I guess.
Imagine trying to recomp 10-15kg, as per his goals. Was one of the reasons earlier that I picked up on people often missing out timeframe interms of importance. I don't think Luki considered that either in terms of age.
I think higher dose HGH is useful for keeping fat gain in check on surpluses too. And insulin sensitivty has ways to be retained through pharma means when doing so, whether GDAs or low dose GLP1 or Tren.
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I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, have you seen the guy? Eddie is built like a goddamn tank, ain't no way he's pulling a recomp, LOL.
I really like Luki (I have learned so much from him, and still do), but he might have been a bit too conservative in his suggestion (IMO).
Eddie.
Member
Guys thanks for pointing out your thoughts, I can’t speak on behalf of luki since I’m not his client or anything and also he’s not here to clarify some things but ill say my opinion and I’ll try to keep this short.
If I remember correctly he said he does this with many of his clients and by that I assume he meant not only with those who recomp but generally for push phase. He doesn’t know my story just the main things I wrote down on proM so there’s that.
I’m not expert by any means and I’m lacking experience on different diet approaches but I still do believe a classic off season / cutting phase approach is the most optimal if you want to add kilograms of muscle tissue while staying in a favourable bodyfat range. The hard part for me was to get lean, now I hope my body responds well in adding muscle and not gain 50/50 muscle and fat.
If for any reason next year after the cutting phase I realise it didn’t worked as it should have then ill may try the approach of going really slow, like a 150-200kcal daily surplus for a very prolonged period. Of course I’m not expecting to gain 10-15kg of muscle mass this year but obviously hoping for 3-4.
If I remember correctly he said he does this with many of his clients and by that I assume he meant not only with those who recomp but generally for push phase. He doesn’t know my story just the main things I wrote down on proM so there’s that.
I’m not expert by any means and I’m lacking experience on different diet approaches but I still do believe a classic off season / cutting phase approach is the most optimal if you want to add kilograms of muscle tissue while staying in a favourable bodyfat range. The hard part for me was to get lean, now I hope my body responds well in adding muscle and not gain 50/50 muscle and fat.
If for any reason next year after the cutting phase I realise it didn’t worked as it should have then ill may try the approach of going really slow, like a 150-200kcal daily surplus for a very prolonged period. Of course I’m not expecting to gain 10-15kg of muscle mass this year but obviously hoping for 3-4.
rexy
Member
Same here, and I think this is the holy grail with it - getting really lean first. I've noticed it myself after I finally got pretty lean. Not only do the gains in muscle appear more obvious, so it's easier to track, but it's easy to see when you're going 'too far' and losing definition. So it gives a clear cut off point to do a short cut. Also allows you to keep an eye on your midsection to stop it blowing out and limits the impact of water retention as well.
Has been night and day for me and I understand why people always suggest starting growth phases as lean as you can. I've seen gains in 8 weeks after doing a rebound that I didn't in over a year whilst I was >25%. Of course, i was also more motivated too with finally being able to see definition.
TD was right when he said you can get a year of progress in that 8-12 week period afterwards.
Not only does the partioning seem to work so much better when lean, but the buffer zone seems to be so much larger than an equivalent calorie intake at higher bodyfats. Not to mention you have drugs even further in your favour, especially if using HGH etc. Everything just works in your favour to keep you leaner once you have dietary habits under control.
For me I leverage Sema to keep the food focus away but I'm not ashamed of that. It's a godsend. The really difficult part is getting very lean but damn is it worth the trouble.
Eddie.
Member
I agree 100% but to be honest I’m still scared of pushing food back, I think it will make me look like I’ve lost all the detail. I know it’s another kind of dysmorphia I need to deal with but it’s there.
I’ve seen a few guys around me going into a rebound and some they lost only a margin of condition while gaining a lot of weight but still inside my head there are voices telling me “this is not gonna be the same for you” lol.
If I manage to make an order from SSA I’ll be using higher HGH dosage to make the push phase better. Now I’m on 3,5IU but I’d like to see what 6-8 IU would do.
Eddie.
Member
Current physique and current bp and rhr reading.
Second week of my reverse - rebound, bodyweight is 102kg or 225lb at 6’0 so stayed the same so far after a week of vacation and raised calories from rebound.
I’m still eating around 2700-2800kcal on non training days with 260-280 carbs and on training days I’m having ~450 carbs with 270 protein and 50 fats. I’ll slowly raise carbs as weeks go by on training days only.
Gear wise I’m running 525 test and 270 EQ. In couple weeks I’m going for an extended bloodwork panel and urine test. If everything is ok I will raise a little both and add 250 deca. If anything is concerning I’ll drop everything bout test and do a cruise for 6 weeks or something.
BP looks slightly better compared to when I was running tren but not a big difference. Only thing I’m taking for bp related thing is 10mg ivabradine to lower my RHR from HGH and Reta. Apparently it works side effect free but I don’t wanna keep it year round. Reta is at 3,7mg per week and HGH at 3,3 IU but I’m planning to push HGH higher as soon as my new kits arrive.
Second week of my reverse - rebound, bodyweight is 102kg or 225lb at 6’0 so stayed the same so far after a week of vacation and raised calories from rebound.
I’m still eating around 2700-2800kcal on non training days with 260-280 carbs and on training days I’m having ~450 carbs with 270 protein and 50 fats. I’ll slowly raise carbs as weeks go by on training days only.
Gear wise I’m running 525 test and 270 EQ. In couple weeks I’m going for an extended bloodwork panel and urine test. If everything is ok I will raise a little both and add 250 deca. If anything is concerning I’ll drop everything bout test and do a cruise for 6 weeks or something.
BP looks slightly better compared to when I was running tren but not a big difference. Only thing I’m taking for bp related thing is 10mg ivabradine to lower my RHR from HGH and Reta. Apparently it works side effect free but I don’t wanna keep it year round. Reta is at 3,7mg per week and HGH at 3,3 IU but I’m planning to push HGH higher as soon as my new kits arrive.
BabaJagga
Member
what markers will you test with your urine?
Eddie.
Member
Basic panel for urine, colour, smell, protein - albumin, RBC etc. I’m interested mostly for protein.
BabaJagga
Member
thats basicly test for kidney health?
i know 0 stuff about urine tests so im tryin to gather some info.
i just know its for drug tests...
