Need help

[Liter O' Test]

^^^^^ This ^^^^^

Once I switched to this my gains shot through the roof. I am an old school gym-bro who HAD the same old school mentality. Lift heavy, lift hard and keep the reps under12.

The knowledge and help you are getting in this thread needs to be pinned to the top of the Steroid Forum. This thread right here is what I think MESO is all about.

did you change anything else?

 

[Grey Spartan]

did you change anything else?

I did. I tracked everything I put in my mouth and made sure to get at least 1g protein per pound of body weight and adjusted the other macros to meet my goals. This obviously helped the training switch. I also think a lot of the time we just keep doing what we are comfortable with in the gym and don't switch up the training tactics (going through the motions). The thing I noticed most with the higher rep/volume training was the pump and the mind muscle connection.

 

[dinfar1337]

I did. I tracked everything I put in my mouth and made sure to get at least 1g protein per pound of body weight and adjusted the other macros to meet my goals. This obviously helped the training switch. I also think a lot of the time we just keep doing what we are comfortable with in the gym and don't switch up the training tactics (going through the motions). The thing I noticed most with the higher rep/volume training was the pump and the mind muscle connection.

it was most likely you starting to track food, mind muscle connection and pump is irrelevant for muscle growth

 

[rokkrul3r]

5x5 first
then work in the 8 rep range
then after a year you can begin to think of 15 rep range

seriously, no beginner will lift a decent amount of weight for decent hypertrophy at higher than 10 rep range

 

[Liter O' Test]

I did. I tracked everything I put in my mouth and made sure to get at least 1g protein per pound of body weight and adjusted the other macros to meet my goals. This obviously helped the training switch. I also think a lot of the time we just keep doing what we are comfortable with in the gym and don't switch up the training tactics (going through the motions). The thing I noticed most with the higher rep/volume training was the pump and the mind muscle connection.

did you increase sets as well? or lower sets?
perhaps you just didn't have the max potential for glycogen storage your muscles could hold, and the higher reps helped your body adapt.

I don't really know what I'm talking about though so I'm hoping someone can correct me.

I am really adverse to higher reps, it just seems like the first 5 or so are so easy, it just seems like a waste of energy.

I'll try it for a week at least I guess.

were you still getting sore going heavy after all those years?

 

[dinfar1337]

did you increase sets as well? or lower sets?
perhaps you just didn't have the max potential for glycogen storage your muscles could hold, and the higher reps helped your body adapt.

I don't really know what I'm talking about though so I'm hoping someone can correct me.

I am really adverse to higher reps, it just seems like the first 5 or so are so easy, it just seems like a waste of energy.

I'll try it for a week at least I guess.

were you still getting sore going heavy after all those years?

Lower reps higher intensisity is better on low carbs than higher reps. Higher reps create more fatigue and more risk for not hitting failure and more risk of injury. Anyone willingly doing high reps is cheating themself. Especially on steriods you get stronger constanstly without being able to feel much difference, you just have to adapt some ego and go higher in weight

 

[Astartes]

Next time you are on cycle try three weeks of 10-15 reps for some exercises and 15-20 for heavy compound leg exercises like leg press and see what happens. Of course, progressive overload, keep pushing that weight heavier once you hit your target reps, keep adding reps when you can't add weight, and so on and so forth.

You might find it works for you. If not, you can always start the fourth week with a slightly heavier weight to get you down under 12 reps again. At least you will know.

You might find that you grow quickly just because it is so different from how you have done training for your entire life. It will be like a brand new stimulus for your body. It is a very uncomfortable stimulus, though. Fair warning. Reps 17, 18, and 19 on the leg press are very uncomfortable if you are using heavy weight. And you really, really, won't want to do the next set. Push through. You may find you love what you see in the mirror a month later.

I knew I liked you Mal…..

 

[Grey Spartan]

did you increase sets as well? or lower sets?
perhaps you just didn't have the max potential for glycogen storage your muscles could hold, and the higher reps helped your body adapt.

I don't really know what I'm talking about though so I'm hoping someone can correct me.

I am really adverse to higher reps, it just seems like the first 5 or so are so easy, it just seems like a waste of energy.

I'll try it for a week at least I guess.

were you still getting sore going heavy after all those years?

I was still getting sore.

 

[Grey Spartan]

it was most likely you starting to track food, mind muscle connection and pump is irrelevant for muscle growth

So you are saying delivering more blood to the muscle is "irrelevant" for muscle growth?

 

[dinfar1337]

So you are saying delivering more blood to the muscle is "irrelevant" for muscle growth?

Yes, it was used to believe the primary growth was from muscle hypertrophy and the secondary was pumps. But pumps have nothing to do with muscle hypertrophy and pumps have been proven to do nothing for muscle growth. Its just more muscle damage will absorb water for recovery making your muscles swelled. This of course not permanent size and will not allow you to move more weight. For muscle growth you shouldnt care about a pump at all

 

[Grey Spartan]

Yes, it was used to believe the primary growth was from muscle hypertrophy and the secondary was pumps. But pumps have nothing to do with muscle hypertrophy and pumps have been proven to do nothing for muscle growth. Its just more muscle damage will absorb water for recovery making your muscles swelled. This of course not permanent size and will not allow you to move more weight. For muscle growth you shouldnt care about a pump at all

Wrong.

Not to sure if your not understanding what blood does in the body or just not grasping what a pump is. Give this a read.

The Beginner's Guide to Blood Flow Restriction Training (BFR)

Blood Flow Restriction (BFR) Training is a strange muscle-building technique that occasionally makes its way into the mainstream. Peter Attia recommends it. NBA and NFL players use it. And you’ll see top bodybuilders and powerlifters swearing by it, too. When you restrict blood flow, blood can...

outlift.com

 

[dinfar1337]

Wrong.

Not to sure if your not understanding what blood does in the body or just not grasping what a pump is. Give this a read.

The Beginner's Guide to Blood Flow Restriction Training (BFR)

Blood Flow Restriction (BFR) Training is a strange muscle-building technique that occasionally makes its way into the mainstream. Peter Attia recommends it. NBA and NFL players use it. And you’ll see top bodybuilders and powerlifters swearing by it, too. When you restrict blood flow, blood can...

outlift.com

Gave it a 2min read so far
They’re using unreliable 1990-2006 studies
The article itself is about using bands to restrict blood flow.
Their flawed study saw a growth with powerlifters starting to train like a bodybuilders.
Idk if you’re serious or half of this forum is old timers trolling

 

[bigpoppachump2]

I can’t for the life of me build muscle… I’ve been training for four years now with little results. I’ve got so impatient I started steroids well testosterone optimization therapy so to speak. I took 600 mg of testosterone every week for 16 weeks. I’ve took 2 blood tests during cycle to make sure it was legit. Both were well above range. but still little results in muscle growth during and after cycle.
My training is fairly simple over the past two years. I’ve been doing a push pull legs Which consists of a push day, a pool day, a leg day sometimes an arm day and rest day and Repeat. 8 to 12 sets per day each set to failure with hypertrophy in mind. Staying right around 205 pounds give or take. Not sure on body fat percentage, but maybe 20%. Not sure. but I’m skinny fat, arms and legs, fairly lean and veiny but torso holds all the fat. My diet consist of a maximum of 4000 cal a day which I just recently bumped up from 3500. 250 to 300 g of protein a day. From chicken fish steak and turkey, roughly the same on carbs from rice and potatoes and about 100g of fat. I have my occasional cheat meal once every couple of weeks where I stay within the same range of calories, but don’t count the macros. My supplements consist of multivitamin, fish oils, creatine, magnesium, zinc, and veggie replacement supplement called smarter greens. I’m going to continue adding compounds to my next test based cycle I’ve already got Mastrone and growth hormone and superdrol on standby from qsc but that stack isn’t set in stone I may switch it up or add more compounds. I really don’t know what else to do, I just want to get huge. I got the stupid goal where I want to be 230 lean and I’m not going to stop until I either reach that goal or end up 6 foot under .anyways, before any of you say it, I know I’m an idiot who potentially has a death wish but this ambition of mine is literally the only thing I’ve got going for me in life so any advice would greatly be appreciated

I had similar issues my first couple cycles. Once I stopped worrying so much about protein and counting it out and worrying more about eating good carbs and getting calories is when I really packed on size, strength and muscle.

I was shooting for 4500-5000 calories per day with a minimum of of 500mg of clean carbs.

I combined that with 350 perf week of test prop and 400mg per week of NPP on top of my 125mg try does of test cyp per week. I grew like a weed everytime I ran that combo with those calories and with high clean carbs

 

[CamCamthePowerMan]

You see I started out with an 8 to 12 rep range for the first few years I lifted. And yes, failure/hypertrophy in mind every workout. Compound and dumbbell movements being the focus, but what I have found is most compound and dumbbell movements don’t really isolate my chest. Bench press, db bench press, incline decline flat, db flys would be my go to on chest days if I could do 12 reps it was time to go up in weights and I did go up in weights. Got to 110lds on db bench press so far. But that chest development that I’m trying to achieve hasn’t been there and is why I’ve switched into a more nontraditional approach lately with the cable exercises and the higher reps to see if I can achieve that chest development that I’m looking for

 

[CamCamthePowerMan]

Finding a coach is probably my best course of action, but until then. Based on y’all’s thoughts, I believe I’ll go back to the traditional 8 to 12 red range, though with some modifications to my old workout routine. Tell me what you think.

Chest shoulders
Barbell press 2x8-12
Db press 2x8x12
Db fly 2x812
Shoulder press barbell or db 2-3sets 8x12
Db lat raises 2x8x12

my back days are pretty much gonna stay the same I believe.

Back
Warmup 10-15 pullups
Weighted pull-ups or cable pulldowns 2x8-12
Cable single arm pulldowns 2x8-12
Barbell rows 3-4 sets x8-12
Barbell or db shrugs 2x8-12

Leg day is gonna stay the same just lower reps to 8 to 12

I will incorporate biceps, triceps, and forearms on there own separate day. Every week to every other week. My arms are fairly big so not to worried about them growing

I’ll begin this routine probably on the next cycle coming up.

 

[malfeasance]

5x5 first
then work in the 8 rep range
then after a year you can begin to think of 15 rep range

seriously, no beginner will lift a decent amount of weight for decent hypertrophy at higher than 10 rep range

I went back to this thread to respond to this.

Progressive overload.

You say no beginner will lift a decent amount of weight in a higher than 10 rep range?

So, let's say the beginner ignored this and tried for 12-15 anyway. He selects a weight he can get for 12. He keeps a workout log. He gets his 12 reps. Maybe it was not quite the maximum amount of weight he could have done first time out of the gate for 12 reps. BUT, next time, he focuses on doing more, 13, 14, maybe even 15. Of course, once he hits 15 reps for however many sets he is doing, then next time it is time to increase the weight, right?

So now he goes a little heavier. Now he is at that heaviest weight he can perform, and he has a few workouts under his belt. Maybe he does not get 15 reps with the new weight, but he keeps his log and keeps shooting for more reps, until he gets 15, and the next time, he goes a little heavier. He is now lifting what you call a decent amount of weight, that is, an appropriate weight for his rep range and continual progressive overload (which progress happens quickly for a beginner, as we all know). And the weight continues to go up each time he hits his target reps.

The only possible way a beginner cannot "lift a decent amount of weight . . . at a higher than 10 rep range" is if somehow at sets of 11 repetitions that beginner refuses to do more next time. I do not think that there is any magic line that says the beginner will add repetitions and weight when working out for 8, 9, or 10 reps, but stop doing so if he performs 11 reps.

Progressive overload.

Anyway, my advice was not necessarily for a beginner. I am of the opinion that beginners can do practically anything and make progress. They will make progress reracking the weights others leave lying around. Just lift. All the fancy stuff does not matter. Being a beginner is a magical time of progress every workout.

But folks who have been lifting a while, sticking to 5 reps, as in your post, or 5-8, as I did for a long time, or 8-10, as is often recommended, well, I am saying give it a month of 10-15 on most body parts and 15-20 on some body parts and see what you think of the results. You may be pleasantly surprised. Maybe not, but I have yet to hear of somebody switching to 15-20 reps on heavy leg exercises (e.g., squat and leg press) and not liking the results. They don't like the workout, but that is not the same thing as the results.

If you try it for a month and find that your results are worse than had you been doing 5 reps or whatever you prefer, then, fine, you have learned that it does not work for you.

Progressive overload works in a variety of rep ranges, however, and shooting for growth in a little higher rep range seems to work for most people, especially those who have only worked in lower rep ranges and never tried it (maybe just because it is a new type of stimulus, I won't pretend to know the reason).

 

[malfeasance]

Leg day is gonna stay the same just lower reps to 8 to 12

Is there some reason you are avoiding squatting with a bar bell or even doing leg presses?

It has been a full month since you last posted in this thread. Have you made progress over the last 4 weeks?

 

[dinfar1337]

I went back to this thread to respond to this.

Progressive overload.

You say no beginner will lift a decent amount of weight in a higher than 10 rep range?

So, let's say the beginner ignored this and tried for 12-15 anyway. He selects a weight he can get for 12. He keeps a workout log. He gets his 12 reps. Maybe it was not quite the maximum amount of weight he could have done first time out of the gate for 12 reps. BUT, next time, he focuses on doing more, 13, 14, maybe even 15. Of course, once he hits 15 reps for however many sets he is doing, then next time it is time to increase the weight, right?

So now he goes a little heavier. Now he is at that heaviest weight he can perform, and he has a few workouts under his belt. Maybe he does not get 15 reps with the new weight, but he keeps his log and keeps shooting for more reps, until he gets 15, and the next time, he goes a little heavier. He is now lifting what you call a decent amount of weight, that is, an appropriate weight for his rep range and continual progressive overload (which progress happens quickly for a beginner, as we all know). And the weight continues to go up each time he hits his target reps.

The only possible way a beginner cannot "lift a decent amount of weight . . . at a higher than 10 rep range" is if somehow at sets of 11 repetitions that beginner refuses to do more next time. I do not think that there is any magic line that says the beginner will add repetitions and weight when working out for 8, 9, or 10 reps, but stop doing so if he performs 11 reps.

Progressive overload.

Anyway, my advice was not necessarily for a beginner. I am of the opinion that beginners can do practically anything and make progress. They will make progress reracking the weights others leave lying around. Just lift. All the fancy stuff does not matter. Being a beginner is a magical time of progress every workout.

But folks who have been lifting a while, sticking to 5 reps, as in your post, or 5-8, as I did for a long time, or 8-10, as is often recommended, well, I am saying give it a month of 10-15 on most body parts and 15-20 on some body parts and see what you think of the results. You may be pleasantly surprised. Maybe not, but I have yet to hear of somebody switching to 15-20 reps on heavy leg exercises (e.g., squat and leg press) and not liking the results. They don't like the workout, but that is not the same thing as the results.

If you try it for a month and find that your results are worse than had you been doing 5 reps or whatever you prefer, then, fine, you have learned that it does not work for you.

Progressive overload works in a variety of rep ranges, however, and shooting for growth in a little higher rep range seems to work for most people, especially those who have only worked in lower rep ranges and never tried it (maybe just because it is a new type of stimulus, I won't pretend to know the reason).

anything from 4-35 reps is gonna make you grow. its all pref at the end of the day but higher reps will cause more fatigue and lower reps will up the risk of bad form/injury. i think its all gonna be a feel thing at the end of the for people.

 

[malfeasance]

anything from 4-35 reps is gonna make you grow. its all pref at the end of the day but higher reps will cause more fatigue and lower reps will up the risk of bad form/injury. i think its all gonna be a feel thing at the end of the for people.

I made great progress with lower reps earlier on.

* especially once I started pinning testosterone . . .

But I never experimented with higher rep ranges back then, so I do not know whether I would have done even better with higher rep ranges. Maybe not?

I also experienced injuries working in lower rep ranges, that maybe, just maybe I would not have experienced working in higher rep ranges. My tendon connections and deep muscle tissue certainly do not seem to feel the same strain shooting for 15 as shooting for 5-8. It seems to me, not scientific, just my opinion, that the higher rep ranges are a lot safer for more advanced lifters, older, bigger, handling higher workloads on tendons that are no longer 19 years old.

 

[Astartes]

I also experienced injuries working in lower rep ranges, that maybe, just maybe I would not have experienced working in higher rep ranges. My tendon connections and deep muscle tissue certainly do not seem to feel the same strain shooting for 15 as shooting for 5-8. It seems to me, not scientific, just my opinion, that the higher rep ranges are a lot safer for more advanced lifters, older, bigger, handling higher workloads on tendons that are no longer 19 years old.

100% Correct!

To be honest. I wish I had never lifted in the 5-10 rep range or power lifted 1-5 reps as young man. I would have been bigger at 15-30 reps and 3-4 sets …. AND had less legacy injury….