New HRT patient, my therapy is going HAYWIRE!

[rjrjclub]

I am a 52 year old male who just finished a 20 week program of HRT therapy. My given protocol was as follows:

* 220 mg. testosterone cypionate IM once a week
* 1 mg of anastrozole twice a week
* 500 IU of HCG. twice a week

The protocol was based on the following Lab test results:

Testosterone 325 nl/dl Normal 241 - 827
Free Testosterone 8.3 pg/ml Normal 7.2 - 24.0
SHBG 48 nmol/L Normal 14.50 - 48.4
Estradiol 26 pg/ml Normal 7.6-42
FSH 2.7 mIU Normal 1.4 -18
LH 2.8 mIU Normal 1.5 - 9.3
IGF-1 59 ng/ml Normal 87 - 238

Thyroid results were midrange normal

Everything was going great. felt better, daily headaches went away, energy level soared, and my libido improved, my workouts improved. One NEGATIVE: my testicles stared shrinkingand my nipples got tender

Had my blood work checked after 22 weeks(Had just started the next 20 week phase). The results were as follows. These are NOT missprints

Testosterone 4839 nl/dl Normal 241 - 827
Free Testosterone > 49 pg/ml Normal 7.2 - 24.0
SHBG 51.9 nmol/L Normal 14.50 - 48.4
Estradiol 85.3 pg/ml Normal 7.6-42
FSH 0.3 mIU Normal 1.4 -18
LH <0.2 mIU Normal 1.5 - 9.3
IGF-1 79 ng/ml Normal 87 - 238

My consultant at the internet site clinic (with real actual clinic in Florida) called
with the results and were astounded and concerned. They had never seen a testosterone level that high before. Apparently Labcorp hadn't either and re-ran a 2nd blood sample to make sure.

My new protocol they gave to me is:

* 100 mg of testosterone cypionate per week IM

* 3000 IU of HCG per week (500IU x 6 days)

* 1 mg of anastrozole 3 times per week for 4 weeks

* 10 mg of tamoxiphen 3 times per weeks for 4 weeks

* 50 mg stanolozol troche 3 time a week starting Feb 7th , 2010
for 4 weeks.

After reading some of the various threads on this site I am more confused than ever. I stopped taking the testosterone 3 weeks ago to try to get the levels down. I am taking 1200-1500 IU of HCG per week(no more than 500IU per injection). I am taking the anastrozole and the tamoxiphen as instructed. my sore nipples have gone away. I was going to resume the testosterone Feb 7, 2010 at the 100 mg IM per week.

HELP! What the HECK happened? Any constructive feedback will be greatly appreciated.

 

[BlackWat3r]

I am a 52 year old male who just finished a 20 week program of HRT therapy. My given protocol was as follows:

* 220 mg. testosterone cypionate IM once a week
* 1 mg of anastrozole twice a week
* 500 IU of HCG. twice a week

The protocol was based on the following Lab test results:

Testosterone 325 nl/dl Normal 241 - 827
_____________________________________________________

Testosterone 4839 nl/dl Normal 241 - 827

I could be wrong but I dont think thats possible to have almost 5000 Testosterone, did you go back in to test or did they retest from the same original batch? 325 isnt bad for a 52 yr old and 220mg a week is a lot, im surprised your doc prescribed that much, im sure yout test levels would be high after what you took, but 5000, no way.

Estradiol 85.3 pg/ml Normal 7.6-42

Thats why you have sore nipples, you were taking way to much test, 220mg weekly is a shit load from what I have read.

My consultant at the internet site clinic (with real actual clinic in Florida) called
with the results and were astounded and concerned. They had never seen a testosterone level that high before. Apparently Labcorp hadn't either and re-ran a 2nd blood sample to make sure.

What clinic in FLorida? Curious if its the same place I had a bad run in with before....

My new protocol they gave to me is:

* 100 mg of testosterone cypionate per week IM

* 3000 IU of HCG per week (500IU x 6 days)

* 1 mg of anastrozole 3 times per week for 4 weeks

* 10 mg of tamoxiphen 3 times per weeks for 4 weeks

* 50 mg stanolozol troche 3 time a week starting Feb 7th , 2010
for 4 weeks.

100mg of test is a lot more reasonable and probably what you should have done in the first place and again the 3000 IU of hcg is also a lot.

There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here, just wait and they'll answer.

 

[Deacon]

there is such a thing as to much HCG - that could cause some of the symptoms you have - I woudl never run more than 1000 ius in 6 days myself - as far as your test levels - it sounds strange to me and the numbers dont seem to add up - the small amount of cyp you had wasnt going to shoot it up so dramatically - IMO I would get another opinion myself

 

[rjrjclub]

The internet site clinic's initials are THARC.
they usually will treat men whose testosterone levels are below the 350 ng/dl and have a lot of andropause symptoms.

Also my IGF-1 Factor was extremely low and that was a concern to them. that did come up somewhat but still below normal.

Labcorp test results noted the "Testosterone level confirmed on dilution"

My clinic told me that I must not be metabolizing the testosterone that I am getting. I don't know what that means.

I did read an article today the Dr Crisler's website "All thingsmale" that his protocol is to start his patient at 100mg of test. cypionate/week and adjust 4 weeks after. He did say in the article that some individuals will have a hyper response to the testosterone to twice the normal level(in that 4 week trial period). My regimen went 22 weeks, maybe that why I was 6 times above the normal high range. I was the one that suggested to have another blood test. When I told my consultant that I wanted another blood test his reaction was " Why"? I am sure glad I didn't wait longer.
.
The 3000IU of HCG was to stimulate my testicles because of the almost nonexistent LH and FSH hormones. I read some post on this forum that too much HCG could desensitize my Leydig cells. That's why I won't go more that 1200 -1500 IU. of HCG for now.

They told me that the estradiol was causing my sore nipples. The Tamoxiphen was suppose to take care of that. (which it has).

The extra anastrozole is to keep all that extra testosterone from breaking down to estradiol.

The Stanonzolol is suppose to free up the SHBG.

My workouts are losing some "steam" since I stopped the IM injection of the testosterone.

I am open to any feedback as I want to get this right moving forward.

 

[BlackWat3r]

I would suggest to go get blood work done again to see what your actual test is at. Also why the hell did they want you to wait 22 weeks before getting your first blood work, you must be working with idiots, I would think after you start test for your first time to check your blood 4-6 weeks in and adjust from there like I did, sounds like you need to find a new doc who knows what he is doing.

 

[Deacon]

I would suggest to go get blood work done again to see what your actual test is at. Also why the hell did they want you to wait 22 weeks before getting your first blood work, you must be working with idiots, I would think after you start test for your first time to check your blood 4-6 weeks in and adjust from there like I did, sounds like you need to find a new doc who knows what he is doing.

I couldnt agree more

 

[rjrjclub]

When I started the HRT with this Florida anti-aging clinic; their protocol with me was to have blood test re-checked in 6 months. I decided on my own to have it re-checked because they had me on Sermorelin to help get my IGF-1 up. I wanted to see if the Sermorelin was working.(They didn't have a clue to why my IGF-1 was so low They said that my IGF-1 was the lowest they had for someone in my age bracket).

It wasn't until I started reading the threads on this forum that I noticed that people where getting there blood test checked in 4-6 weeks after starting on a TRT/HRT program. I started wondering if my clinic is in-tune with the latest on TRT protocol.

I was thinking of waiting until Feb 1st, 2010 to get another blood test. I will have had 4 weeks off the testosterone cypionate IM. Hoping that this will get my testosterone/estradiol and SHBG levels down and the FSH and LH up and running.

P.S. I had my last blood test done on December 31, 2009. That the results I posted above

 

[BlackWat3r]

It wasn't until I started reading the threads on this forum that I noticed that people where getting there blood test checked in 4-6 weeks after starting on a TRT/HRT program. I started wondering if my clinic is in-tune with the latest on TRT protocol.

Clearly they are not up to date and probably never were. That site looks like a money making thing, they just promote hgh and testosterone prescriptions to get costumers. Starting someone off on 220mg is ridiculous and to not get checked untill 6 months later, what the hell. What you need to do is find someone on here to guide you in the right direction, there are people here who really know hrt/trt and give phone consultations, It sounds like if you stay with those people much longer you will end up worse than you started.

 

[rjrjclub]

You think 220mg per week is high. When I went to purchase the next 20 weeks supply (Dec 2009) of hormones (testosterone, HCG, and anastrozole, syringes) my consultant upped to 330 mg per week IM of testosterone cypionate (165 mg twice a week). That a 50% increase.I had told him that my sex drive has been gradually decreasing since about the 10th week on the program(it had skyrocketed about the 3rd week on theprogram).
He told me that was the amount of testosterone cypionate he takes. He is the same age(53 years old) and has been doing the hormones for 5 years.

If I drop down to 100 mg per week of the test. cypionate I now have 60 weeks supply of testosterone(holy crap)! I hope that stuff is good for over a year. i think your right . They just in it to make a fast buck.

 

[BlackWat3r]

lol he wanted to up it to 330...... this thread needs to be moved to mens health part where its all about hrt, I think you would get a lot more help if this was posted there, might want to start a new thread there as the people who know everything about hrt usually stroll around there and not much in the steroid section i think.

 

[solo47]

You think 220mg per week is high. When I went to purchase the next 20 weeks supply (Dec 2009) of hormones (testosterone, HCG, and anastrozole, syringes) my consultant upped to 330 mg per week IM of testosterone cypionate (165 mg twice a week). That a 50% increase.I had told him that my sex drive has been gradually decreasing since about the 10th week on the program(it had skyrocketed about the 3rd week on theprogram).
He told me that was the amount of testosterone cypionate he takes. He is the same age(53 years old) and has been doing the hormones for 5 years.

If I drop down to 100 mg per week of the test. cypionate I now have 60 weeks supply of testosterone(holy crap)! I hope that stuff is good for over a year. i think your right . They just in it to make a fast buck.

I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm currently running 750 mg EW of Test e, and I'm 59. Certainly does not seem like too much by the way I'm feeling. The only drawback is some tiredness, but that's no doubt from the 600 mg of EQ & the 300 mg of Tren e.

What is this "too much" of which you speak?

Solo

 

[BlackWat3r]

I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm currently running 750 mg EW of Test e, and I'm 59. Certainly does not seem like too much by the way I'm feeling. The only drawback is some tiredness, but that's no doubt from the 600 mg of EQ & the 300 mg of Tren e.

What is this "too much" of which you speak?

Solo

He isnt trying to do a cycle though, its to much to be doing for a long amount of time, from what I have thought people on trt usually go from 100mg-200mg, I currently use the gel so I'm not that familiar with the injection dosages for trt but from all the stuff I have read it seems people on trt go from 100-200 mg unless they really need more. But regardless you need to get new blood work done because there is no way you have 5000 test level.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

This is a duplicate thread!!! Answer is the same: quack - quack - quack.

 

[rmike]

I couldnt agree mor doc. Crazy that a dr wouldnt order blood work more often that early into therapy.

 

[jdgalway1]

Is there any chance that you took the IM shot the day of your blood drawing?
Maybe you hit a vein and shot into the blood stream, then went and got your blood tested...unlikely, but that would give an extremely high test result.

 

[bryanc4]

Your doc should get his head examined.

White on HRT, there is absolutely no need for HCG as your test levels are MUCH higher than normal.. no need to 'spike' test levels even higher which is what HCG mimics.