Let me start out by saying that I'm a bit anal when it comes to how much of a compound I use and what is left over from my vials. I like my injected doses to be precise and to know exactly how much I'm getting in my vials. Guy's who've been running gear for years and years probably already know the information below...but with all the newcomers on this forum this could be of use...I wish I had known.
This post is meant to address potentially wasting our gear and knowing how much is in our vials. For me it is important to know the amount of liquid actually being pulled into a pin from a vial and injected vs what the syringe markings indicate and how much is left in the vials themselves.
I started pinning for TRT last year and have since been playing around with the dosages and eventually moving into the performance enhancing ranges for 4 week cycles to see how I handled them before making any commitments.
Down to business
I've used all kinds of syringe barrels and tips from different manufacturers to see what worked best for me and figure out the differences.
I Checked my vial after one month of EOD injections and thought that the compounding pharmacy was shorting my vials (it happens sometimes). What I found was this...
Using a 18gauge 1.5 inch tip to draw and a 25gauge 1.5 inch tip to inject was actually shorting me 0.1ml out of my vials per injection. This may seem negligible but if one is dosing out of a vial with higher mgs per ml (i.e. 200-400mgs/ml) the loss becomes apparent in every day or EOD injections. So a 10ml vial can effectively have a mL or more wasted over the course of prolonged use due to the following.
The problems contributing to small amounts of substances lost are 2 fold
(1) A long 18gauge pin tip holds a small bit of an injectable do to it's length and inner bore diameter...not much...but enough to subtract from the total amount drawn into the pin and out of the vial over time.
A long smaller diameter needle used to inject will also retain a small amount of liquid...again...not much because of a smaller inner bore diameter but it effectively adds up especially with more frequent injections.
This problem is compounded when drawing with one tip and switching to the injection tip without pulling all of the liquid out of the draw tip first, thus leading to more waste.
(2) It seems that most luer lock, slip tip needles are compatible with their respective 1ml or 3ml Luer lock and slip tip barrels but needle tip internal reservoir dimensions are not all uniform from manufacturer to manufacturer.
A common problem: Using a needle that is both Luer lock and slip tip compatible on a luer lock barrel pulls a bit extra into the tip reservoir upon drawing from a vial and leaves a little bit extra upon injecting. The reservoir located at the base of the needle tip below the needle itself holds a tiny amount of liquid which can be attributed to waste over time as well since it is not injected. Though universal luer lock/slip tips work on a luer lock barrel, the plunger usually has a coned rubber stopper to conform to the barrel, while slip tip designed barrel plunger stoppers have a protruding tip to push the rest of the liquid through the needle reservoir.
Solutions?
(1) I draw with a 1/2 or 5/8th's inch 18 gauge tip and always pull the remainder out of the draw tip before swapping heads to an injection tip (I swap pin tip heads because I don't enjoy injecting with blunt pin tips which have already pierced the rubber vial top. Also, I'd rather draw quickly with an 18gauge tip and inject with a smaller pin tip rather than a harpoon).
(2) This is completely preferential and optional if you prefer to prefill your pins and store them for later use.
I inject an equal amount of air into the vial as the volume I intend to draw to equalize pressure in the vial. After injecting the air I invert the bottle to draw the amount of liquid equal to the air injected into the vial. Once I have the amount I desire I reverse the bottle right side up and detach the tip from the barrel. I can then attach another barrel to fill off of the same pin tip and continue to draw the same amount for as many barrels as I like for later use.
The are reason I detach the barrel from the tip and refill the next barrel for storage without using a new tip each time is simple.
I know the markings I draw up to on the syringe measure the exact amount I will be injecting without the draw needles inner diameter and reservoir holding an extra 0.1ml once the draw is complete. The next barrel can be attached and the process can be repeated without any waste whatsoever. Plus...who doesn't want to save on a few draw tips?
IMPORTANT: Air should be injected into the vial prior to drawing if this method is used. Equalizing pressure in the vial will help avoid the liquid from being drawn back into the vial or spilling when the pin tip is detached from the barrel for the next barrel to be loaded.
(3) I use the "air-lock" method. The air-lock method requires a small amount of air (0.1-0.3mls) be drawn up into the syringe before an IM injection. The air bubble is allowed to move to the top of the plunger so all the liquid sits down at tip during injection.
This method pushes all of the liquid into the muscle and clears it out of the pin tip entirely, emptying the needle and its reservoir of ALL the syringes contents. A small amount of air will probably enter the muscle, THIS IS ENTIRELY SAFE. IV injections should not contain ANY AIR! IM injections may contain air. This is a common practice in the medical field to ensure that the full amount of medication is injected from a syringe during an intramuscular injection. The medical field also uses the technique to minimize bleeding after an injection...so that's handy if you're pinning with harpoons.
I know this problem is negligible to many so please don't hate on me 2 much. I've lost as much as to 1.5mls of T out of a 10ml vial do to my former draw and injection practices. For me this is a problem, especially if I'm going to run different injectables congruent with one another and inject frequently. About 1ml lost per 10ml vial could add up to 5mls over 5-10 vials.
I am a new member to this forum and have been pouring over threads and using the search function to find topics to gather information on cycling and have learned a great deal from what others have offered...so I'm pretty damn grateful for all of you.
I wanted to to make a post to contribute something, if anything to this forum.
Longtimers on here probably won't benefit from this post but the little information I've learned may very well help those new to pinning.
Hope this helps someone
This post is meant to address potentially wasting our gear and knowing how much is in our vials. For me it is important to know the amount of liquid actually being pulled into a pin from a vial and injected vs what the syringe markings indicate and how much is left in the vials themselves.
I started pinning for TRT last year and have since been playing around with the dosages and eventually moving into the performance enhancing ranges for 4 week cycles to see how I handled them before making any commitments.
Down to business
I've used all kinds of syringe barrels and tips from different manufacturers to see what worked best for me and figure out the differences.
I Checked my vial after one month of EOD injections and thought that the compounding pharmacy was shorting my vials (it happens sometimes). What I found was this...
Using a 18gauge 1.5 inch tip to draw and a 25gauge 1.5 inch tip to inject was actually shorting me 0.1ml out of my vials per injection. This may seem negligible but if one is dosing out of a vial with higher mgs per ml (i.e. 200-400mgs/ml) the loss becomes apparent in every day or EOD injections. So a 10ml vial can effectively have a mL or more wasted over the course of prolonged use due to the following.
The problems contributing to small amounts of substances lost are 2 fold
(1) A long 18gauge pin tip holds a small bit of an injectable do to it's length and inner bore diameter...not much...but enough to subtract from the total amount drawn into the pin and out of the vial over time.
A long smaller diameter needle used to inject will also retain a small amount of liquid...again...not much because of a smaller inner bore diameter but it effectively adds up especially with more frequent injections.
This problem is compounded when drawing with one tip and switching to the injection tip without pulling all of the liquid out of the draw tip first, thus leading to more waste.
(2) It seems that most luer lock, slip tip needles are compatible with their respective 1ml or 3ml Luer lock and slip tip barrels but needle tip internal reservoir dimensions are not all uniform from manufacturer to manufacturer.
A common problem: Using a needle that is both Luer lock and slip tip compatible on a luer lock barrel pulls a bit extra into the tip reservoir upon drawing from a vial and leaves a little bit extra upon injecting. The reservoir located at the base of the needle tip below the needle itself holds a tiny amount of liquid which can be attributed to waste over time as well since it is not injected. Though universal luer lock/slip tips work on a luer lock barrel, the plunger usually has a coned rubber stopper to conform to the barrel, while slip tip designed barrel plunger stoppers have a protruding tip to push the rest of the liquid through the needle reservoir.
Solutions?
(1) I draw with a 1/2 or 5/8th's inch 18 gauge tip and always pull the remainder out of the draw tip before swapping heads to an injection tip (I swap pin tip heads because I don't enjoy injecting with blunt pin tips which have already pierced the rubber vial top. Also, I'd rather draw quickly with an 18gauge tip and inject with a smaller pin tip rather than a harpoon).
(2) This is completely preferential and optional if you prefer to prefill your pins and store them for later use.
I inject an equal amount of air into the vial as the volume I intend to draw to equalize pressure in the vial. After injecting the air I invert the bottle to draw the amount of liquid equal to the air injected into the vial. Once I have the amount I desire I reverse the bottle right side up and detach the tip from the barrel. I can then attach another barrel to fill off of the same pin tip and continue to draw the same amount for as many barrels as I like for later use.
The are reason I detach the barrel from the tip and refill the next barrel for storage without using a new tip each time is simple.
I know the markings I draw up to on the syringe measure the exact amount I will be injecting without the draw needles inner diameter and reservoir holding an extra 0.1ml once the draw is complete. The next barrel can be attached and the process can be repeated without any waste whatsoever. Plus...who doesn't want to save on a few draw tips?
IMPORTANT: Air should be injected into the vial prior to drawing if this method is used. Equalizing pressure in the vial will help avoid the liquid from being drawn back into the vial or spilling when the pin tip is detached from the barrel for the next barrel to be loaded.
(3) I use the "air-lock" method. The air-lock method requires a small amount of air (0.1-0.3mls) be drawn up into the syringe before an IM injection. The air bubble is allowed to move to the top of the plunger so all the liquid sits down at tip during injection.
This method pushes all of the liquid into the muscle and clears it out of the pin tip entirely, emptying the needle and its reservoir of ALL the syringes contents. A small amount of air will probably enter the muscle, THIS IS ENTIRELY SAFE. IV injections should not contain ANY AIR! IM injections may contain air. This is a common practice in the medical field to ensure that the full amount of medication is injected from a syringe during an intramuscular injection. The medical field also uses the technique to minimize bleeding after an injection...so that's handy if you're pinning with harpoons.
I know this problem is negligible to many so please don't hate on me 2 much. I've lost as much as to 1.5mls of T out of a 10ml vial do to my former draw and injection practices. For me this is a problem, especially if I'm going to run different injectables congruent with one another and inject frequently. About 1ml lost per 10ml vial could add up to 5mls over 5-10 vials.
I am a new member to this forum and have been pouring over threads and using the search function to find topics to gather information on cycling and have learned a great deal from what others have offered...so I'm pretty damn grateful for all of you.
I wanted to to make a post to contribute something, if anything to this forum.
Longtimers on here probably won't benefit from this post but the little information I've learned may very well help those new to pinning.
Hope this helps someone
