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Check out "2 on 4 off cycles" by bill roberts. But take NOTHING aas related in off weeks. Except pct if course. Perfect Recovery is almost guaranteed with these light cycles. Good way to get your feet wet. Wish I would have started there myself

Plus u can do peptides in the 4 off weeks
 
Ah OK, very interesting!
Yeah Ozzy I will definitely smarten up before starting anything, no doubt.
Hey thanks so much for the feedback and the help, I really appreciate that!
Mark
 
Hey thanks! Reading right now, this is very interesting...I really like this forum, super useful!
 
Plenty of older guys around here and there's a mix of approaches taken to meet individual needs. I agree those sides you mentioned are not inevitable if you get it right. Read and read sound more.... Good luck
 
Thanks! I will study this in detail AND get back to you guys before I even think about using anything.
I'd very much appreciate your feedback and suggestions on my first ever cycle, when the time comes.
Mark

PS: I got some Clen, am thinking of using this on it's own for a short cycle, for the fat burning but mainly the anti catabolic effects. Does this make sense?
 
Hi guys, Ozzy619 and element00, xupc and hotdog23, I think I'm about ready to give this a go and I was thinking Testo Proprionate with arimidex for 2-3 weeks on, then maybe HCG with nolvadex for the weeks off, as in the "2 on 4 off cycles" by bill roberts.
Would that be a good place to start? I like to keep things simple, especially as a beginner.
I should guess this would give me decent gains in strength -I don't want to gain TOO much lean mass- and hopefully not 'shut me down'?

Any feedback/tips/advice wold be much appreciated, I want to get this absolutely right and there's no rush here at all...
Thanks and looking forward to hear what you think!
 
Hello,

You will get shut down. Now that we get that out of the way let me tell you my opinion (please note that I am NOT as experienced as other members of the board).

I had a look at the 2 on 4 off cycles as well as I am thinking of using it in conjuction with my training cycle/peaking. However, I dont know how they work for the strength athlete as I) I would need to change my programming and periodisation and I am NOT going to do that before the competition period II) the frequent bloodwork that is required to run such a protocol successfully is an issue for me as the price of bloodwork in the UK is VERY expensive, and III) most strength athletes dont agree with short cycles - heck most dont agree with cycling at all- and go #YOLO with the doses (Ie cruise 750mg blast 2g of test a week etc).

I would suggest you go with something more traditional 12 weeks at 500mg test-e cycle with clomid/nolva pct and 0.25 adex eod after week 3/4.. as EOD pinning is NOT fun and the PIP from the testosterone propionate is going to leave you in a bad state (injecting 500mg of testosterone propionate per week now as I peak and damn the PIP in unbearable). Also note that you will not gain insane muscle mass nor insane strength on a cycle (if you are in a good level)... and lets be honest.. you will NOT gain insane muscle/strength mass from a simple testosterone cycle. However, if you eat properly testosterone is going to improve your recovery A LOT, thus allowing you to handle higher frequency and intensity during training sessions. Further, testosterone will let your body react better to stimulus from exercises. You might end up doing LESS and getting MORE out of your training. Strength athletes think that more is better (and on gear that even more is even better) which is bullshit. If you can elicit adaptation with 3 reps.. why would you do 5 or 10 or 5x5? (For example for me when on gear I can elicit adaptation on my deadlifts by doing the competition move and an assistnce move with only 9 repetitions. 3@ rpe 8 3@ rpe9 and 3@rpe9-6% fatigue )
You need to play around and experiment - however I assume that you have your training dialed in and you allready know -at least- the basics of programming and periodisation for strength training.

Also if you care about the weight try to regulate your eating.. and make sure that you eat for performance.. do not read the bodybuilding stuff on the steroid forums.. most people do NOT train for performance and their advice is irrelevant to strength athletes. You need to go high carb, low fat, med protein and DONT go crazy on the calories (80/20 rule ofcourse).

My 2c
 
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Ah OK, wow, thanks for that reply! Well yeah the programming, nutrition etc is not a problem since I'm a performance coach, working with athletes. That's btw another reason I need to watch it, that and I compete in a tested sport.
Truth is I'm not 20 any more and I look at it more as a self administered HRT than anything else.
As I understood that 2 on 4 off thing, they said yeah it shut him down but he recovered right quick? And made decent gains without anything much as in sides...also that guy didn't want to bulk up TOO much, so as to not look too suspicious. So I guess that scenario fits perfect for me.
I was just thinking if it's OK to use a simpler protocol, like one good testo, plus one or two good Ai's and then PCT, like HCG and clomid. Would that be a good start?
This is what you recommended, hotdog23, right? What do you think?
 
If u wanna do 2 week cycles, I'd do your first few like this

Day 1-10 100mg test prop ed
Day 1-14. 40-50mg dbol ed
Arimidex 1mg e3d

Day 15-30 nolva/clomid @ 20/50

Pct can be light as shutdown will be brief, allegedly u levels are back to baseline in 3-4 days

You can look into other compounds after a couple cycles of above. Make sure short esters (prop should b the longest ester to consider, acetate can be ran up to day 12). Make sure compounds have cleared by day 15

1mg adex is interchangeable with 25mg aromasin

If you really don't wanna shutdown hpta you could do insulin, hgh and t4 but each of those has it's own feedback loop that is affected.

Hope this helps
 
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hotdog23 said:
If u wanna do 2 week cycles, I'd do your first few like this

Day 1-10 100mg test prop ed
Day 1-14. 40-50mg dbol ed
Arimidex 1mg e3d

Day 15-30 nolva/clomid @ 20/50

Pct can be light as shutdown will be brief, allegedly u levels are back to baseline in 3-4 days

You can look into other compounds after a couple cycles of above. Make sure short esters (prop should b the longest ester to consider, acetate can be ran up to day 12). Make sure compounds have cleared by day 15

1mg adex is interchangeable with 25mg aromasin

If you really don't wanna shutdown hpta you could do insulin, hgh and t4 but each of those has it's own feedback loop that is affected.

Hope this helps
Click to expand...

I might give this a go as well during my peak. I will maybe start a log if there is interest by others
 
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Yeah I'd definitely be interested in that, xupc!
Thanks so much for the cycle example, hotdog23! You guys are really very helpful...
I have a few questions if you don't mind?
1. The dbol, I'm a little weary of stuff that aromatizes so much as I don't want water weight and definitely no moobs!! NIGHTMARE, that....
But would that Arimidex 1mg e3d take fully care of that?
2. How about using HCG together with the Nolvadex PCT?

Hey thanks for the help and patience guys! :-) Muchos appreciatos.
 
Hi guys, say I'm in a weight class sport and don't want to increase muscle mass too much. What would you recommend?
Anavar with creatine?
Stanozolol?
Halotestin?
Thanks so much in advance,
VVV
 
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