Off season diet advice

[Eddie.]

Would like some opinions for the "issue" i'm dealing right now. I'm in fifth week of bulk, my maintenance is around 3200 now i work more than before (requires some physical stuff and enough steps).

I started the bulk with 3500kcal on training days (4 per week), 2500 on 2 of my rest days and 4500 the other rest day which is Saturday with a cheat meal for dinner. I gave it 2 weeks and my weight didn't increased, i was 213lb like first day of bulk.

I then raised calories to 3900 on training days, 2700 on 2 rest days and 4500 for Saturday. Gave it 10 days and still nothing, i was confident enough that after 4 weeks the higher Test and EQ would start holding some water but nah.

I'm currently at 4300-4500kcal on training days, 3300 on 2 rest days and almost 5500 on Saturday with the cheat meal. Almost a week after and throughout that period i'm 1lb up which is pretty weird for me since i was always the opposite, always had to be careful to not end up like a pile of $hit.

Current macros on training days is 650C 65F 290P and in rest days 400C 60F 270P. My carb sources are cream of rice, white rice, rice cakes, oats, potatoes, dates and Karbolyn for intra. Protein is whey, fat free Greek yoghurt, chicken breast, eggs and beef on my cheat meal. Fats are mostly from my 2 eggs, 10gr olive oil and 30gr peanut butter, the rest is trace from other sources.

My main concern is, should i keep it there for couple weeks to see if scale come up or it would be better to keep increasing calories until i start gaining weight? This is literally happening to me for the first time, i always was that guy who gained weight by just smelling the food. I'm sure if i start eating crap i'll add 10 pounds in a week but that's not what i seek for, i just want to add muscle mass as clean as i possibly can.

 

[Oakley6575]

Would like some opinions for the "issue" i'm dealing right now. I'm in fifth week of bulk, my maintenance is around 3200 now i work more than before (requires some physical stuff and enough steps).

I started the bulk with 3500kcal on training days (4 per week), 2500 on 2 of my rest days and 4500 the other rest day which is Saturday with a cheat meal for dinner. I gave it 2 weeks and my weight didn't increased, i was 213lb like first day of bulk.

I then raised calories to 3900 on training days, 2700 on 2 rest days and 4500 for Saturday. Gave it 10 days and still nothing, i was confident enough that after 4 weeks the higher Test and EQ would start holding some water but nah.

I'm currently at 4300-4500kcal on training days, 3300 on 2 rest days and almost 5500 on Saturday with the cheat meal. Almost a week after and throughout that period i'm 1lb up which is pretty weird for me since i was always the opposite, always had to be careful to not end up like a pile of $hit.

Current macros on training days is 650C 65F 290P and in rest days 400C 60F 270P. My carb sources are cream of rice, white rice, rice cakes, oats, potatoes, dates and Karbolyn for intra. Protein is whey, fat free Greek yoghurt, chicken breast, eggs and beef on my cheat meal. Fats are mostly from my 2 eggs, 10gr olive oil and 30gr peanut butter, the rest is trace from other sources.

My main concern is, should i keep it there for couple weeks to see if scale come up or it would be better to keep increasing calories until i start gaining weight? This is literally happening to me for the first time, i always was that guy who gained weight by just smelling the food. I'm sure if i start eating crap i'll add 10 pounds in a week but that's not what i seek for, i just want to add muscle mass as clean as i possibly can.

Are you taking progress pictures each week? If so, I would use that as your metric to gauge what you need to do with the diet. The scale is a terrible way to gauge progress.

 

[Eddie.]

Are you taking progress pictures each week? If so, I would use that as your metric to gauge what you need to do with the diet. The scale is a terrible way to gauge progress.

TBH no man. I'm taking some random pics here n there but nowhere near like check ins and you're right, this is actually the most reasonable question i'd do too, but honestly didn't thought it will end up this way. I'm definitely getting harder and more vascular but sizewise i think i'm the same. Only when i'm pumped from all the carbs and higher test i'm somewhat bigger, but not actual muscle tissue.

Do you think it's still a good idea to start taking pics now?

 

[Oakley6575]

TBH no man. I'm taking some random pics here n there but nowhere near like check ins and you're right, this is actually the most reasonable question i'd do too, but honestly didn't thought it will end up this way. I'm definitely getting harder and more vascular but sizewise i think i'm the same. Only when i'm pumped from all the carbs and higher test i'm somewhat bigger, but not actual muscle tissue.

Do you think it's still a good idea to start taking pics now?

Of course. Take some "starting" pics ASAP. That will give you a baseline you can make adjustments off of.

 

[Eddie.]

Of course. Take some "starting" pics ASAP. That will give you a baseline you can make adjustments off of.

Ok, thanks for replying!

 

[BuildABro]

Would like some opinions for the "issue" i'm dealing right now. I'm in fifth week of bulk, my maintenance is around 3200 now i work more than before (requires some physical stuff and enough steps).

I started the bulk with 3500kcal on training days (4 per week), 2500 on 2 of my rest days and 4500 the other rest day which is Saturday with a cheat meal for dinner. I gave it 2 weeks and my weight didn't increased, i was 213lb like first day of bulk.

I then raised calories to 3900 on training days, 2700 on 2 rest days and 4500 for Saturday. Gave it 10 days and still nothing, i was confident enough that after 4 weeks the higher Test and EQ would start holding some water but nah.

I'm currently at 4300-4500kcal on training days, 3300 on 2 rest days and almost 5500 on Saturday with the cheat meal. Almost a week after and throughout that period i'm 1lb up which is pretty weird for me since i was always the opposite, always had to be careful to not end up like a pile of $hit.

Current macros on training days is 650C 65F 290P and in rest days 400C 60F 270P. My carb sources are cream of rice, white rice, rice cakes, oats, potatoes, dates and Karbolyn for intra. Protein is whey, fat free Greek yoghurt, chicken breast, eggs and beef on my cheat meal. Fats are mostly from my 2 eggs, 10gr olive oil and 30gr peanut butter, the rest is trace from other sources.

My main concern is, should i keep it there for couple weeks to see if scale come up or it would be better to keep increasing calories until i start gaining weight? This is literally happening to me for the first time, i always was that guy who gained weight by just smelling the food. I'm sure if i start eating crap i'll add 10 pounds in a week but that's not what i seek for, i just want to add muscle mass as clean as i possibly can.

You sound like me man. I can't gain weight for shit, and I also have a bulk coming up. Do you have a target weight you are trying to hit on your bulk?

In any event, I would not do anything immediately. Patience is not my virtue either, but I would maintain the status quo for at least a couple more weeks to see what materializes keeping your routine and diet as close to 1:1 as possible.

If after the passage of time your body is still fighting you, then it's time to throw more calories at it. It will have to respond eventually. I use weight gainer shakes myself to supplement in this situation. They are not the greatest taste wise. Packing 1000 calories into a 16 oz shake makes them thick like sludge, but they are a relatively easy way to top off daily calories.

 

[Eddie.]

You sound like me man. I can't gain weight for shit, and I also have a bulk coming up. Do you have a target weight you are trying to hit on your bulk?

In any event, I would not do anything immediately. Patience is not my virtue either, but I would maintain the status quo for at least a couple more weeks to see what materializes keeping your routine and diet as close to 1:1 as possible.

I usually had an easy time on packing weight but i was also natty since last year and also my diet was always with higher fats, like 100+ per day.

I was 247lb in february before going to cut and now i'm 213, i don't think 247 will look good, probably this would require enough fat gain too and i don't think i'll go there in the current bulk.

My initial plan was hitting something between 235-240 after 20 weeks on bulk but this is why i'm kinda unsure how to proceed because 5 weeks already flew and i haven't gain any weight. I'm not going to push more than 2 pounds a week, so at this point i'm in the verge of getting there IF weight starts to increase like next week.

If after the passage of time your body is still fighting you, then it's time to throw more calories at it. It will have to respond eventually. I use weight gainer shakes myself to supplement in this situation. They are not the greatest taste wise. Packing 1000 calories into a 16 oz shake makes them thick like sludge, but they are a relatively easy way to top off daily calories.

I don't want to eat processed foods and dense calorie foods just for the sake of total input. I planned this off season to be as clean as possible, actually it's the first time i intentionally want to add weight because the previous times i was just getting loose and eat whatever i wanted. Now it's all planed and it amazes me how difficult is to gain weight with clean foods haha

 

[Trenbolonetax]

A couple of thoughts:

I like to use trailing 7 day or 10 day average of scale weight as a good metric for gaining. Kind of helps to strip out any day to day fluctuations, which can be helpful for me since I can wildly fluctuate in a day based on fluid, salt, macro (high vs low carb, etc).

You could try carb / calorie cycling; carb heavier meals around training to take advantage of insulin sensitivity and refueling glycogen for performance. And then could eat a bit higher fat and lower carb outside of that window to help get a bit of extra calories during a time when your not tremendously spiking insulin and thereby hopefully shuttling less of dietary fat towards adipose tissue.

 

[Eddie.]

A couple of thoughts:

I like to use trailing 7 day or 10 day average of scale weight as a good metric for gaining. Kind of helps to strip out any day to day fluctuations, which can be helpful for me since I can wildly fluctuate in a day based on fluid, salt, macro (high vs low carb, etc).

You could try carb / calorie cycling; carb heavier meals around training to take advantage of insulin sensitivity and refueling glycogen for performance. And then could eat a bit higher fat and lower carb outside of that window to help get a bit of extra calories during a time when your not tremendously spiking insulin and thereby hopefully shuttling less of dietary fat towards adipose tissue.

Thanks man! I kinda do carb cycle already, i have 400gr carbs NTD and ~750 TD. I'm pretty sure if i raise fats the scale will go up but not in a good way. And 70-80gr is already enough i think, it's not that's low. Also with that much carbs i think it's not doable to specifically target them periworkout. I have to spread 750 carbs in 5 meals + the intra. My pre is the biggest I think with 210gr carbs.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Thanks man! I kinda do carb cycle already, i have 400gr carbs NTD and ~750 TD. I'm pretty sure if i raise fats the scale will go up but not in a good way. And 70-80gr is already enough i think, it's not that's low. Also with that much carbs i think it's not doable to specifically target them periworkout. I have to spread 750 carbs in 5 meals + the intra. My pre is the biggest I think with 210gr carbs.

Ah yeah I missed you already kinda cycle them.

Agreed; tough to raise fats with that many carbs when you can’t allocate carbs mostly strategically around workouts and end up higher insulin most the day…in that case yeah fat makes you fat lol. In my opinion at least.

Sounds like pre + post is about 50% of your carb consumption which is what I would ideally suggest anyways.

At the end of the day I suppose if you’re not gaining weight like you want, gotta add in extra calories somewhere, so if the only thing you can eat is a little extra fat throughout the day to boost calories…is what it is.

 

[Eddie.]

Sounds like pre + post is about 50% of your carb consumption which is what I would ideally suggest anyways.

Yeah, pre+intra+post have 420gr total. I have 180 in my breakfast and i have a little less carbs in my 2 last meals, mostly because i don't wanna go to bed with a 1,5kg of food in my stomach lol and also because i shoot GH before bed and i want it as far as possible from too much carbs.

At the end of the day I suppose if you’re not gaining weight like you want, gotta add in extra calories somewhere, so if the only thing you can eat is a little extra fat throughout the day to boost calories…is what it is.

It's easy for me to get fat, i can guarantee that lol i can eat absurd amounts of food especially if it contains some extra fat. I just don't want to get fat and i think it's better to not have a progress at all than moving the scale up and look like shit. That's my concern mostly, lets say i can eat 1000gr carbs from clean foods to move the scale up, i'm afraid at some point i will become insulin resistant and start gain weight, meaning fat.

 

[BigTomJ]

Would like some opinions for the "issue" i'm dealing right now. I'm in fifth week of bulk, my maintenance is around 3200 now i work more than before (requires some physical stuff and enough steps).

I started the bulk with 3500kcal on training days (4 per week), 2500 on 2 of my rest days and 4500 the other rest day which is Saturday with a cheat meal for dinner. I gave it 2 weeks and my weight didn't increased, i was 213lb like first day of bulk.

I then raised calories to 3900 on training days, 2700 on 2 rest days and 4500 for Saturday. Gave it 10 days and still nothing, i was confident enough that after 4 weeks the higher Test and EQ would start holding some water but nah.

I'm currently at 4300-4500kcal on training days, 3300 on 2 rest days and almost 5500 on Saturday with the cheat meal. Almost a week after and throughout that period i'm 1lb up which is pretty weird for me since i was always the opposite, always had to be careful to not end up like a pile of $hit.

Current macros on training days is 650C 65F 290P and in rest days 400C 60F 270P. My carb sources are cream of rice, white rice, rice cakes, oats, potatoes, dates and Karbolyn for intra. Protein is whey, fat free Greek yoghurt, chicken breast, eggs and beef on my cheat meal. Fats are mostly from my 2 eggs, 10gr olive oil and 30gr peanut butter, the rest is trace from other sources.

My main concern is, should i keep it there for couple weeks to see if scale come up or it would be better to keep increasing calories until i start gaining weight? This is literally happening to me for the first time, i always was that guy who gained weight by just smelling the food. I'm sure if i start eating crap i'll add 10 pounds in a week but that's not what i seek for, i just want to add muscle mass as clean as i possibly can.

my opinion, id hold things where they are and ride that for another week or two.

Sounds like you jumped on a blast/upped your dose recently as well, so thats going to be another variable.

That amount of food should absolutely be enough to grow off of.

This is why i dont like the scale as a big indicator of growth. Besides the scale, how have your other indicators been? (Logbook, feeling in the gym, progress photos, ect)

 

[Eddie.]

my opinion, id hold things where they are and ride that for another week or two.

Sounds like you jumped on a blast/upped your dose recently as well, so thats going to be another variable.

That amount of food should absolutely be enough to grow off of.

This is why i dont like the scale as a big indicator of growth. Besides the scale, how have your other indicators been? (Logbook, feeling in the gym, progress photos, ect)

First post is from October 04, since then i added some weight but i had to add more food. Currently i'm in 5000-5200 in training days and 3500 rest days. My training days have 770C 300P 80F and rest days 400C 280P 80F.

I started the bulk at 213lb and now i'm 222lb, with whatever water from aas and GH so i guess this is considered okayish weight gain for 8 weeks bulking.

Lifts started to going up pretty well but i had to take a step back because i wasn't recovering. I reduced some volume and kept the top sets to RIR 1 instead of failure. What surprises me in a negative way is that my overall strength increased but my stamina and endurance not at all. I do my first excercises nice and hard but then despite all those carbs and the touch of EQ and the anadrol, i don't have the capacity to push in the same pace after doing just 2-3 heavy excercises. Meaning, if i do a incline smith press with 275X10 for top set then my next set with same weight i could do like 7 or 8 tops. That's why i currently do back offs instead of 2 same working sets and aim for better contraction, TUT, pauses etc.

Progress pics i admit i screwed up in the beggining and haven't started taking "check in" pics. I just have some random flex here n there inside my house. I'm definitely bigger, still a good amount of veins and more swole than i started. With a little less definition though..or maybe not, because my tan is fading away and returning to baseline milky man lol.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

First post is from October 04, since then i added some weight but i had to add more food. Currently i'm in 5000-5200 in training days and 3500 rest days. My training days have 770C 300P 80F and rest days 400C 280P 80F.

I started the bulk at 213lb and now i'm 222lb, with whatever water from aas and GH so i guess this is considered okayish weight gain for 8 weeks bulking.

Lifts started to going up pretty well but i had to take a step back because i wasn't recovering. I reduced some volume and kept the top sets to RIR 1 instead of failure. What surprises me in a negative way is that my overall strength increased but my stamina and endurance not at all. I do my first excercises nice and hard but then despite all those carbs and the touch of EQ and the anadrol, i don't have the capacity to push in the same pace after doing just 2-3 heavy excercises. Meaning, if i do a incline smith press with 275X10 for top set then my next set with same weight i could do like 7 or 8 tops. That's why i currently do back offs instead of 2 same working sets and aim for better contraction, TUT, pauses etc.

Progress pics i admit i screwed up in the beggining and haven't started taking "check in" pics. I just have some random flex here n there inside my house. I'm definitely bigger, still a good amount of veins and more swole than i started. With a little less definition though..or maybe not, because my tan is fading away and returning to baseline milky man lol.

I agree with Tom. Especially with the additional timeline and context about dose and calorie increases.

Hold steady, IMO, and see where the dust settles in a couple of weeks and then reassess.

Have to parse out what is just water from increased GH, aas, etc.

But like he mentioned, if other indicators of progress are there outside of the scale, would just continue marching forward. If your maintenance calculation and your other calorie requirements are correct, hard to see you not gaining weight in the coming weeks.

 

[BigTomJ]

What surprises me in a negative way is that my overall strength increased but my stamina and endurance not at all.

Did you keep cardio in?

I know you said you were already fairly active and a lot of steps so it might not be a factor.
But for me, working a desk job, my endurance and work capacity also dips when im in peak off season eating and adding in a few days of easy cardio usually sorts me out.
might not be the answer for you, im pretty sensitive to the bf increase in bulk phases.

9lbs over 8 weeks sounds like youve kept it pretty clean. Id consider that a good amount of progress

 

[BuildABro]

This conversation from y'all has given me some important context, specifically looking at size/mirror instead of just increases on the scale to mark progress.

I am awful about taking pictures. I took one the other day, but only because I was excited because the scale went up. I need to make a better effort to take a couple a week to then review on down the line as we never notice much on ourselves in the moment.

The pushing food aspect of all of this really is the laborious part over time though. Hard to believe now, but once upon a time I used to actually enjoy eating. Choking down 5K a day feels like job, and the planning involved to hit this consistently is often more work than my actual job. I am getting better at it though. Pushing food is a skill that requires refinement like any other IMO.

I am trying to stay mindful of the long game and not get too caught up on week to week. I am admittedly very much a product of my millennial generation in that I have "I want it now' syndrome.

In sum, while not as much as I had hoped my weight is up, my strength is up, I look more full, my head is in the game and I am hitting PRs on most of my Oly's right and left. Life is good.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

This conversation from y'all has given me some important context, specifically looking at size/mirror instead of just increases on the scale to mark progress.

I am awful about taking pictures. I took one the other day, but only because I was excited because the scale went up. I need to make a better effort to take a couple a week to then review on down the line as we never notice much on ourselves in the moment.

The pushing food aspect of all of this really is the laborious part over time though. Hard to believe now, but once upon a time I used to actually enjoy eating. Choking down 5K a day feels like job, and the planning involved to hit this consistently is often more work than my actual job. I am getting better at it though. Pushing food is a skill that requires refinement like any other IMO.

I am trying to stay mindful of the long game and not get too caught up on week to week. I admittedly very much a product of my millennial generation in that I have "I want it now' syndrome.

In sum, while not as much as I had hoped my weight is up, my strength is up, I look more full, my head is in the game and I am hitting PRs on most of my Oly's right and left. Life is good.

I have never taken more pictures in my life, but it’s been really cool to look back and see progress since hopping back on gear.

Wouldn’t hurt to just snap a quick pic every morning when you weigh in.

Hah, i remember force feeding so hard I would literally throw up on accident sometimes. Sometimes asleep or sometimes awake. Agreed, though, definitely a skill that is learned and refined over time.

If you’re hitting PRs, feeling good, looking bigger, fuller - sounds like you’re in a great place and the gains will come so long as you keep feeding the beast.

Progress is not linear, so don’t be surprised if you “plateau” and then make random jumps up. Just gotta trust the process I suppose.

 

[BigTomJ]

This conversation from y'all has given me some important context, specifically looking at size/mirror instead of just increases on the scale to mark progress.

I am awful about taking pictures. I took one the other day, but only because I was excited because the scale went up. I need to make a better effort to take a couple a week to then review on down the line as we never notice much on ourselves in the moment.

Progress isnt always linear and it is never indicated by only a single factor.
Pick a day, say monday morning, where you get up, weigh yourself, take standardized check in photos with the same location and the same lightning ideally at the same time.

That way now you have weight, taken at the same day, same time, and in same feeding state along with photos taken in the same lighting, timing, and feeding state.
Pair that with logging your training and just being aware or cognizant of how youre feeling day to day regarding digestion, energy, focus, strength ect and you have all the information in the world to determine if youre on the right track and how fast your progressing.

The pushing food aspect of all of this really is the laborious part over time though. Hard to believe now, but once upon a time I used to actually enjoy eating. Choking down 5K a day feels like job, and the planning involved to hit this consistently is often more work than my actual job. I am getting better at it though. Pushing food is a skill that requires refinement like any other IMO.

I am trying to stay mindful of the long game and not get too caught up on week to week. I am admittedly very much a product of my millennial generation in that I have "I want it now' syndrome.

In sum, while not as much as I had hoped my weight is up, my strength is up, I look more full, my head is in the game and I am hitting PRs on most of my Oly's right and left. Life is good.

Bodybuilding is an endurance sport, not a sprint.

The best physiques are built over decades, so best to just do your best to remain present and enjoy the process and the delayed gratification, because no change is going to come "fast"

 

[BuildABro]

Progress isnt always linear and it is never indicated by only a single factor.
Pick a day, say monday morning, where you get up, weigh yourself, take standardized check in photos with the same location and the same lightning ideally at the same time.

That way now you have weight, taken at the same day, same time, and in same feeding state along with photos taken in the same lighting, timing, and feeding state.
Pair that with logging your training and just being aware or cognizant of how youre feeling day to day regarding digestion, energy, focus, strength ect and you have all the information in the world to determine if youre on the right track and how fast your progressing.


Bodybuilding is an endurance sport, not a sprint.

The best physiques are built over decades, so best to just do your best to remain present and enjoy the process and the delayed gratification, because no change is going to come "fast"

Thanks so much for the insight and tips, Tom! Much appreciated.

 

[Ateam2023]

This conversation from y'all has given me some important context, specifically looking at size/mirror instead of just increases on the scale to mark progress.

I am awful about taking pictures. I took one the other day, but only because I was excited because the scale went up. I need to make a better effort to take a couple a week to then review on down the line as we never notice much on ourselves in the moment.

The pushing food aspect of all of this really is the laborious part over time though. Hard to believe now, but once upon a time I used to actually enjoy eating. Choking down 5K a day feels like job, and the planning involved to hit this consistently is often more work than my actual job. I am getting better at it though. Pushing food is a skill that requires refinement like any other IMO.

I am trying to stay mindful of the long game and not get too caught up on week to week. I am admittedly very much a product of my millennial generation in that I have "I want it now' syndrome.

In sum, while not as much as I had hoped my weight is up, my strength is up, I look more full, my head is in the game and I am hitting PRs on most of my Oly's right and left. Life is good.

looking good in profile picture, abs are good , everything else also, good work brother its working