One more thing

[sade]

I remember similar thing you experienced. I did cycle and after cycle I did PCT. I was sure I screwed my HTPA permanently so I went do check my levels and my testosterone was I remember 37 < 5-30 > range. But I still felt I am absolutely shutted down .

PS: while doing test I was still on PCT drugs ( clomid and nolva ).

Wow, that's a pretty high number and you still felt shut down?

Here is what happened in my case, I think:

(a) I had supranormal T and normal LH but the roids lowered my T to high normal and LH increased screaming for more after I came off.

(b) I had supranormal T and LH all along but post roids, my T dropped to high normal but LH stayed the same as before.

 

[pepous]

Wow, that's a pretty high number and you still felt shut down?

Here is what happened in my case, I think:

(a) I had supranormal T and normal LH but the roids lowered my T to high normal and LH increased screaming for more after I came off.

(b) I had supranormal T and LH all along but post roids, my T dropped to high normal but LH stayed the same as before.

Yes I felt shutted down. But this number was so high becouse of PCT drugs using while this test was made.

 

[sade]

Yes I felt shutted down. But this number was so high becouse of PCT drugs using while this test was made.

Yeah, that isprobably why your T was high.

 

[sade]

This guy seriously gets my fucking blood boiling!! I have never been so angry with anyone on an online forum before. He can't face the fact that I have a legitimate condition the fucking wanker. AAARRGH. I FEEL LIKE....

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134308265

eASYRIDER THE FUCKING

 

[sade]

I'm done here for now. Another tosspot decides to PM me and I attack him. My mental state isn't good. Bye for now and i mean it.

 

[4weekdbolcyclingdickshit]

I'm done here for now. Another tosspot decides to PM me and I attack him. My mental state isn't good. Bye for now and i mean it.

You pussy. You took test for 9 months and think thats abuse? You make me laugh. Try taking dbol for only 3-4 weeks. Now thats abuse. My LH is perfect at 3 and my T is great. On paper I have no issues. You don't have MAIS because you're just like me.

 

[sade]

You pussy. You took test for 9 months and think thats abuse? You make me laugh. Try taking dbol for only 3-4 weeks. Now thats abuse. My LH is perfect at 3 and my T is great. On paper I have no issues. You don't have MAIS because you're just like me.

hey 4weekdbol cycling dickshit. You cannot compare your 3 week dbol cycling to me in any way. I started AAS age 21, done about 9 cycles and the last one which screwed me up was Test E for 9 months. I've taken dbol, anadrol, test cyp and deca, test e and equipose and many others and never had a single problem even though I'm genetically pre-disposed. It was a year long cycle that messed me up. In other words 3 weeks of dbol couldn't have done that to you. Your case is definitely psychological. The bloodwork doesn't lie. You have no issues what so ever hormonally. So please stop trying to bring me down to your level. ok?

 

[sade]

Dr Scally is famous in the UK: The famous PoWeR PCT Program by Dr. Michael Scally

I might try it our after another 500mg test e cycle but doubt it'd work because my LH is already elevated.

 

[pepous]

hey 4weekdbol cycling dickshit. You cannot compare your 3 week dbol cycling to me in any way. I started AAS age 21, done about 9 cycles and the last one which screwed me up was Test E for 9 months. I've taken dbol, anadrol, test cyp and deca, test e and equipose and many others and never had a single problem even though I'm genetically pre-disposed. It was a year long cycle that messed me up. In other words 3 weeks of dbol couldn't have done that to you. Your case is definitely psychological. The bloodwork doesn't lie. You have no issues what so ever hormonally. So please stop trying to bring me down to your level. ok?

Sade, you dont have to necessarily have high LH or abnormal Test to have MAIS.

If your test and LH is just fine and you still have no secondary male patterns than something is wrong I think.

 

[sade]

my test and lh isn't fine. I went to see the best AIS doctor and these were his words:

I think the combined findings of raised testosterone and LH concentrations taken together with his high normal SHBG and HDL cholesterol are all indicative of a mild form of the androgen insensitivity syndrome

MAIS is only diagnosed in normal phenotypic males, and is not typically investigated except in cases of male infertility.[18] MAIS has a mild presentation that often goes unnoticed and untreated [15]; even with semenological, clinical and laboratory data, it can be difficult to distinguish between men with and without MAIS, and thus a diagnosis of MAIS is not usually made without confirmation of an AR gene mutation.[5] The androgen sensitivity index (ASI), defined as the product of luteinizing hormone (LH) and testosterone (T), is frequently raised in individuals with all forms of AIS, including MAIS, although many individuals with MAIS have an ASI in the normal range.[5] Testosterone levels may be elevated despite normal levels of luteinizing hormone.[15][20][24] Conversion of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) may be impaired, although to a lesser extent than is seen in 5?-reductase deficiency.[3] A high ASI in a normal phenotypic male,[45] especially when combined with azoospermia or oligospermia,[5][7] decreased secondary terminal hair,[26] and/or impaired conversion of T to DHT, [3] can be indicative of MAIS, and may warrant genetic testing.

 

[sade]

Sade, you dont have to necessarily have high LH or abnormal Test to have MAIS.
.

So what else can it be then? Why is my bioavailable and free t over the range? why is my dht over the range? why is my free androgen index over the range? why is my lh over the range? why aren't i shut down after abusing roids?????????????????????

 

[sade]

i give up here. fuck all you fucking wankers who doubt me. ROT IN HELL YOU FUCKING CUNTS.

 

[pepous]

You dont understand me. I though that you can be LH normal and Testosterone normal and even with this you can have MAIS.

You dont necessarily have it higher I think.

Do you understand me?

 

[sade]

You dont understand me. I though that you can be LH normal and Testosterone normal and even with this you can have MAIS.

You dont necessarily have it higher I think.

Do you understand me?

Yes, you can have it with normal T and LH. I never said you couldn't!

Sorry man, I might have took your post the wrong way!! just re-read it.

 

[sade]

I wish you luck with this, but be morally ready it won't work as expected. You just don't shoot up with supraphysiological doses of T to solve all problems.

So what do you do then mr weak dick losing his manhood after 3 weeks of dbol and having normal T levels?

Due to its mild presentation, MAIS often goes unnoticed and untreated.[15] Management of MAIS is currently limited to symptomatic management; methods to correct a malfunctioning androgen receptor protein that result from an AR gene mutation are not currently available. Treatment includes surgical correction of mild gynecomastia, minor hypospadias repair, and testosterone supplementation. Supraphysiological doses of testosterone have been shown to correct diminished secondary sexual characteristics in men with MAIS, as well as to reverse infertility due to low sperm count.As is the case with PAIS, men with MAIS will experience side effects from androgen therapy (such as the suppression of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis) at a higher dosage than unaffected men. Careful monitoring is required to ensure the safety and efficacy of treatment.Regular breast and prostate examinations may be necessary due to comorbid association with breast and prostate cancers.

Oh, wait i forgot. Everyone is just like you innit??????

 

[Dr JIM]

Goodness, guys stop the conjecture snd bewilderment PAIS and MAIS is readily confirmed with genetic testing and absent this diagnostic study these conversations are best surmised as speculative and narcissistic BULLSHIT.

 

[sade]

QUOTE=sade;797164]I've seen a few guys who lose their libido and get ED after coming off steroid cycles but some of these guys have normal testosterone levels, not low levels. For instance; Lerzan a member of this site took Test E and Deca and got ED after he came off cycle and never recovered. His total T was in the 500-600's and his doc put him on androgel and he got his libido back even though his T wasn't low before he started it. His T is now over 900 ng/dl on testogel.and he feels like himself again.

So for him a T level of 5-600 ng/dl isn't enough. His body obviously responded with a higher T level.[/QUOTE]

That's me-- tried dianabol at 19y.o., now 29, never fully recovered-- typical hypogonadism issues. Now Test 600-700's, E2-- 20-40's, normal cortisol (multiple saliva & blood tests), normal thyroid, liver and other routine blood tests, test results consistent for years, so there's nothing to treat so to speak.

Suspected there was smth wrong with me hormonally b/w ages 15-18, to be more specific tendency to feminization I thought was present before steroids, so they just screwed up my hormonal system and possibly smth else further, that's it. But then I was fine sexually.

Now at this point I think lots of physical and mental symptoms are leftovers from the past and there's no quick solution-- I work on improving lifestyle, diet, exercise, reducing stress etc. I haven't tried real trt, but I tried arimidex, nolvadex, dostinex and other things over years-- basically they did nothing, nothing changed in terms how I felt, maybe was a bit jacked up as I'm sure some of my hormones were over the top, e.g. testosterone on arimidex and nolva. Maybe I need trt or run them for longer time to see effect, but I doubt this. Normal docs won't treat me 'cause according to all results I've got I'm healthy as an astronaut ready to get off on mission to Mars, go figure.

That's why I thought you screwed up hormonal system with cycles and you don't exactly have MAIS, but rather are in some similar state. There's more to healthy hormonal system response than just healthy levels, probably there's smth else that doesn't work optimally in the body, e.g. in the brain.

This is what makes me so fucking angry!! This guy is not in the same league as me and he tries to make me believe that i don't have what I know full well I HAVE. He is not in the same league as me but still tries to compare his 3 week dbol cycling to my 9 steroid cycles and my 9 month cycle which fucked me up.

he took dbol for 3 flipping weeks! That isn't even a cycle.

 

[Olden]

Be a man, get over it, stop abusing the guy, stalking the guy so much when his initial statement was made months ago and this matter should really be forgotten, move on man!!!

Your problem aint Easyrider, its yourself. Why u think this thread is the way it is?

Try and see all this as an outsider, might help you man. It doesnt look good right now.

 

[sade]

Because i wanted the answer as to why the fuck my T levels were higher than most normal perfectly healthy men, why they were higher than men on TRT, why my DHT levels were twice over the top range, why my Bioavailable T levels were way over the range, why my Free T levels were way over the range, why my Free androgen index levels were way over the range and why the hell my LH was screaming for more T all this after I'd abused androgens in the prime of my life. Why I didn't gain any muscle on any of my steroid cycles, why I'd lose erections upon penetration in my 20's. I needed an answer and I finally found it. After all this time; I'd found the answer to all my problems...... but this Fucker, this fucker tried to take it all away from me trying to convince me that I'm just like him after everything I've been through the past 2 and a half years. This fucker thinks he knows me and more than the doctor who diagnosed me. That is why.

If you had normal virilization levels and development as your peers in teens, no way you have MAIS.

May 29th:

LH *9.7 (1.7-8.6)
T - 27.7 (9.9 - 30.0)

July 23rd:

LH - 12.8
T- 28.1



I never gained a pound of solid muscle. It was all water weight. The picture of that guy in the 'MAIS' wiki article. I'm the exact same build with skinny forearms and no chest or arm hair.

Why is my LH screaming guys?

T is fine, but pituitary has a hard time supporting these levels. Maybe a norm for you, but maybe testicles lost their full function?

There are plenty of skinny guys in gym having hard time gaining muscle. They're not sick and have normal T levels.

As far as Sade's case goes: there aren't very many things that can result in elevated LH and T that don't also result in hyperandrogenism. This is why he was diagnosed so quickly by an AIS expert. If you try, you can come up with alternate explanations, but they would be less likely, and thus should become suspicious only if MAIS could be ruled out (e.g. by a negative genetic test). Here are a few such alternate explanations:

Sade is in the beginning stages of primary testicular failure, and it has been progressing unusually slowly, and also has a tumor in his pituitary that is hypersecreting LH.
Some unknown chemical agent has permanently desensitized his androgen receptors. Note that Sade has not used finasteride, nor other 5AR inhibitors.
The polyglutamine tract in Sade's AR is unusually long, and he has an early onset of Kennedy's disease. He just hasn't had any other other symptoms present yet.
A tumor in Sade's pituitary is hypersecreting LH, but his body has started to become insensitive to this particular kind of LH (it has happened before, strange as it sounds).

If there's a reason to doubt this doctor's diagnosis, it is not apparent to me. If it were to be disproved in the future, then I'd guess Sade has a very unusual presentation of primary hypogonadism. In either case, the treatment would be the same: T.

MAIS is more likely than any of these. Even if he never gets the test, it is still possible in the future to eliminate MAIS as a possibility: T should cause his LH to come down; if it doesn't, then it's not MAIS.

 

[sade]

Now this deprivation theory fits nicely. In that study almost all became impotent, but they were deprived for 2 year straight. When you start steroids at a young age and stay on Test E for 9 months straight, no question your system becomes off and you are deprived at some unknown level for a period of time.

Dr. Scally in his ASIH article stated that the length of restoration period in case of ASIH is unknown. If sade's problems started post cycle he basically had an ASIH and unknown period of androgen deprivation. Then the levels went up after some time, but body was damaged and didn't restore its responses.

My earlier post was in error having not read it completely, since your thoughts and commentary have, with few exceptions thus far have been pure conjecture. What literature directly supports your contentions?
What the heck is the statement; "the body was damaged and didn't restore it's responsiveness", based on?
What "deprivation theory" are you referring to?
Although someone may have a hypothesis and or theory they will remain nothing more, until confirmed or refuted based on sound medical judgement or literature! Otherwise it's utter nonsense, IMO.

From this: Testosterone and erectile function recovery after radiothera &bull; PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Testosterone and erectile function recovery after radiotherapy and long-term androgen deprivation with luteinizing hormone-releasing hormone agonists - WILKE - 2006 - BJU International - Wiley Online Library

The present study shows that men achieve supracastrate TT levels after LTAD, but there is a slow recovery of normal TT levels, and a significant proportion of men do not achieve supracastrate or normal levels of TT even several years after completing LTAD.

Despite the return of supracastrate or normal levels of TT, there appears to be little return of potency, as measured by the IIEF, and little return of sexual desire.

In the entire cohort, only 10% of men regained the ability to have an erection sufficient for intercourse, and of men who were potent before any treatment, only two of 11 regained the ability to have an erection sufficient for intercourse. The present study does not address the cause of ED in these patients, but factors other than TT levels appear to be important.

From the same study:

There are lots of folks post-AAS or propecia with normal T, E2, etc. levels suffering from hypogonadal symptoms. Seems it's some physical/mental changes leftovers that are hard to heal after body/mind was damaged by widely changing hormonal levels during/after course of drug. But it's not testosterone deficiency in common sense, all hormones may be within ranges.

What are you basing this comparative argument on? Certainly your not using a study of a whopping TWENTY patients (between the ages of 55-80) all of whom had reasonably well advanced prostate CA and were treated with radiation and androgen deprivation therapy yet developed impotence and castrate testosterone levels with prolonged recovery, if any, to "precastrate" levels. Why the incidence of impotence approximates 70% in that population. Your using the data from this study to substiantiate your assertion of "androgen deprivation" as the etiology of lowered testosterone levels in TWENTY YEAR OLD who did a couple cycles of AAS. You've got to be joking! Goodness, the "study populations" (20 vs 62 year olds, mean) are completely different as are the expected outcomes. A classic example of "reviewers bias", (AKA utter nonsense) observered all to frequently on most forums!

Thanks Dr Jim! I don't who the fuck this 3 week dbol cycler thinks he is but I tell you what he is one jealous MF who can't face the fact that I have a legitimate condition. If he had my bloodwork he'd be over the moon.