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[Mighty-mouse]

According to

According to Diagnostic Labs the reference range is 41 - 279 ng/ml. They give Hiv patients 15 ius/day. 4 ius is just slightly above maintenance dose. That is a very high, insanely high, response and well above average.

For the dose he is running, 4iu’s - 350-420 is expected as long as he is eating properly and not running a shit ton of compounds.

It would put him in the average category when a normal person is self injecting hgh.

The reason they administer so much to HIV patients is their immune system is broke down and most have liver issues so it inhibits the production and conversion of hgh to igf-1.


Edit....

The range that diagnostic labs uses is for natty levels not using any exogenous hormones. Once you introduce exogenous hormones all natty levels are null and void because your body will stop making them.

-Analogy-

Imagine your body as a glass of water and it’s under a faucet.... once it’s full, you will naturally turn the water off. That is what your brain will do once it senses that you have too much of one hormone in your body, regardless if it’s hgh or test.

This however doesn’t stop the body from converting different hormones. That is why your T3 levels will stay elevated while on growth and estrogen will continue to stay high on test unless a inhibitor is taken.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Should be kept in a refrigerator along with ur hgh if it's reconstituted vial I suppose

No need to refrigerate your bac or sterile water.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Does using sterile water make it to where u have to use the growth quicker? Bac water is used to extend usage of a chemical correct such as hcg.... Or other items correct?

I know you are asking MM and not me, but yes, you cannot store it as long using sterile water as you can with bacteriostatic water, so you must use it quicker. Bacteriostatic water extends the life of reconstituted hgh.

If you are doing 5 iu a day with 10 iu vials, though, you are not storing reconstituted vials very long at all, since you are reconstituting every other day (EOD).

@malfeasance is one that I trust for info. He has been around the block a while.

The longest I keep my growth is 5 days and I use sterile water for those too. It will dramatically decrease shelf life as bacteria could grow in the vial. Especially if food is around the vial.

Right now I’m pinning 6iu so I’m reconstructing a vial a day almost. My main cruise is 3-4 iu so I don’t keep them that long and I only reconstruct one vial at a time.

 

[138casanova]

For the dose he is running, 4iu’s - 350-420 is expected as long as he is eating properly and not running a shit ton of compounds.

It would put him in the average category when a normal person is self injecting hgh.

The reason they administer so much to HIV patients is their immune system is broke down and most have liver issues so it inhibits the production and conversion of hgh to igf-1.


Edit....

The range that diagnostic labs uses is for natty levels not using any exogenous hormones. Once you introduce exogenous hormones all natty levels are null and void because your body will stop making them.

-Analogy-

Imagine your body as a glass of water and it’s under a faucet.... once it’s full, you will naturally turn the water off. That is what your brain will do once it senses that you have too much of one hormone in your body, regardless if it’s hgh or test.

This however doesn’t stop the body from converting different hormones. That is why your T3 levels will stay elevated while on growth and estrogen will continue to stay high on test unless a inhibitor is taken.

That's great info, MM. I was wondering why my T3 was elevated. It was elevated to 4.7. The reference range used was 2.3-4.2.

I'm an older dude, too, late 40's. Only other compound I'm running right now is T, and I've already mentioned that cluster fuck with my UGL. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to my body when I get my T levels back up to where they have been for the past few years. Those levels alone gave me a six-pack, (obviously, I had to work for it), and at my age, that's something to write home about.

Regarding the protocol for testing, I didn't have enough to use 10IU. I will plan better next time. User error.

Appreciate all the feedback, fellas! [emoji109]

 

[mtt]

I understand the feedback loop. I disagree with your reasoning. A starting pro is at the 15iu level. HIs IGF should be in the 1,500s. Top tier pros use 20 to 30ius pharm grade. They should be over 2000. I used Opti's "120"iu kits using 8ius a day and after six weeks I was at 163 ng/ml. There is nothing wrong with my liver
as my blood work proves. 4 ius is just barely over maintenance for most people.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

I understand the feedback loop. I disagree with your reasoning. A starting pro is at the 15iu level. HIs IGF should be in the 1,500s. Top tier pros use 20 to 30ius pharm grade. They should be over 2000. I used Opti's "120"iu kits using 8ius a day and after six weeks I was at 163 ng/ml. There is nothing wrong with my liver
as my blood work proves. 4 ius is just barely over maintenance for most people.

How was your diet and what other compounds were you on? I have never known anybody to take 20iu of growth daily. Let alone seen their bloodwork so it’s speculating at that point. Is your bloodwork in this thread I will take a look at it.

 

[mtt]

How was your diet and what other compounds were you on? I have never known anybody to take 20iu of growth daily. Let alone seen their bloodwork so it’s speculating at that point. Is your bloodwork in this thread I will take a look at it.

I've always been very conscious of my diet. I am currently just on TRT. But what does that matter? What if I was on no gear or on a Pro stack? What if my diet consists of KFC and Quarter Pounders and fries or Chicken breast and brocolli? What effect will that have on the HGH I am taking. Someone mentioned TP's products here, if you follow his thread you will hear some guys taking huge amounts of GH. In my State, even for local shows some will take 15+ ius of GH limited only by what they can afford.

You want to look at my blood work? Are you a doctor? Everything is within reference range except my Free T which is on the high side. My liver enzymes are
all intact as they should be as I have taken orals in decades and don't drink at all.

 

[LittleD90]

I've always been very conscious of my diet. I am currently just on TRT. But what does that matter? What if I was on no gear or on a Pro stack? What if my diet consists of KFC and Quarter Pounders and fries or Chicken breast and brocolli? What effect will that have on the HGH I am taking. Someone mentioned TP's products here, if you follow his thread you will hear some guys taking huge amounts of GH. In my State, even for local shows some will take 15+ ius of GH limited only by what they can afford.

You want to look at my blood work? Are you a doctor? Everything is within reference range except my Free T which is on the high side. My liver enzymes are
all intact as they should be as I have taken orals in decades and don't drink at all.

Glycemic load effect on fasting and post-prandial serum glucose, insulin, IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 in a randomized, controlled feeding study - PubMed

Low-GL diets resulted in 43% and 27% lower post-prandial responses of glucose and insulin, respectively, and modestly lower fasting IGF-1 concentrations. Further intervention studies are needed to weigh the impact of dietary GL on risk for chronic disease.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Low protein intake is associated with a major reduction in IGF-1, cancer, and overall mortality in the 65 and younger but not older population - PubMed

Mice and humans with growth hormone receptor/IGF-1 deficiencies display major reductions in age-related diseases. Because protein restriction reduces GHR-IGF-1 activity, we examined links between protein intake and mortality. Respondents aged 50-65 reporting high protein intake had a 75%...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Association of diet with serum insulin-like growth factor I in middle-aged and elderly men

ABSTRACT. Background: Insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) has been implicated in several chronic diseases, including cancer, heart disease, and osteoporosis.Ob

academic.oup.com

Maybe he referring to the impact diet has on IGF-1
So to answer your first question...a lot

 

[mtt]

Glycemic load effect on fasting and post-prandial serum glucose, insulin, IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 in a randomized, controlled feeding study - PubMed

Low-GL diets resulted in 43% and 27% lower post-prandial responses of glucose and insulin, respectively, and modestly lower fasting IGF-1 concentrations. Further intervention studies are needed to weigh the impact of dietary GL on risk for chronic disease.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Low protein intake is associated with a major reduction in IGF-1, cancer, and overall mortality in the 65 and younger but not older population - PubMed

Mice and humans with growth hormone receptor/IGF-1 deficiencies display major reductions in age-related diseases. Because protein restriction reduces GHR-IGF-1 activity, we examined links between protein intake and mortality. Respondents aged 50-65 reporting high protein intake had a 75%...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Association of diet with serum insulin-like growth factor I in middle-aged and elderly men

ABSTRACT. Background: Insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) has been implicated in several chronic diseases, including cancer, heart disease, and osteoporosis.Ob

academic.oup.com

Maybe he referring to the impact diet has on IGF-1
So to answer your first question...a lot

But it doesn't apply when you are injecting HGH. For example, there are many factors that affect testosterone production. Even training too much lowers your body's ability to produce testosterone. All of that goes out the window when you are injecting a gram of cyp a week. I remember being on a very low carb diet. On a follow up blood test it showed my t3 was very low. My doctor told me low carbs lowers thyroid production. 50 mcg of t3 took care of that problem. It no longer mattered that I was low carbs, no carbs, 500gms carbs -- as long as I was taking 50mcg of t3 my thyroid levels weren't affected.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

But it doesn't apply when you are injecting HGH. For example, there are many factors that affect testosterone production. Even training too much lowers your body's ability to produce testosterone. All of that goes out the window when you are injecting a gram of cyp a week. I remember being on a very low carb diet. On a follow up blood test it showed my t3 was very low. My doctor told me low carbs lowers thyroid production. 50 mcg of t3 took care of that problem. It no longer mattered that I was low carbs, no carbs, 500gms carbs -- as long as I was taking 50mcg of t3 my thyroid levels weren't affected.

Someone saying they are on 20+ iu a day without showing bloodwork is worthless. You been a member of meso long enough to know of bloodwork doesn’t follow then it doesn’t mean anything.

I thought you were talking about opti’s 120’s but when I looked back you only received the kits like a week ago. Were you talking about TP’s kits? If so what did he do to help you out?


Diet absolutely directly effects growth even when you are taking exogenous growth. It has been proven time and time again across the forums. 2 members that I know have tested low as shit while getting stage ready. They posted their bloodwork... but soon as their show was over and got on a good diet it shot their levels up using the same amount.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges between hormones. Hgh and test have different pathways.

I don’t believe anything anyone says without showing bloodwork with the date and time on it. Good or bad results.

I might be a doctor who knows[emoji2955]

Edit... that’s my bad you just picked up the 240’s let us know what you score when you pull bloods

 

[malfeasance]

mtt,

No need to be hostile. This is just a discussion. My personal experience shows that diet matters a lot. A LOT. No, I do not know why, exactly.

Your T3 example is not really relevant. You took T3, and your T3 went up. That is one of those "duh" moments, but it does not illustrate what you are trying to show.

We are discussing IGF-1. You are not injecting IGF-1 and then testing your blood. You are injecting growth hormone and then hoping for a conversion to IGF-1 and consequent high levels.

On pharmaceutical growth hormone (not "pharma grade") my IGF-1 dropped all the way down to 57 due to a very restrictive diet in contest prep. Since I have several blood tests of IGF-1 during prep, I got to see it first hand. Consistently injecting hgh, but progressively restricting diet and raising cardio, resulted in lower and lower IGF-1 scores over time.

Now I am just one person. I have not conducted this test on a cohort of 40,000 volunteers, with 10,000 injecting IGF-1 and dieting, 10,000 injecting IGF-1 and eating a lot, and 10,000 not injecting and dieting, and 10,000 not injecting and eating a lot.

I realize anecdote is not the singular of data (datum is, LOL!), but I thought I would share my story with you as you still might find it useful, especially since I am not aware of anybody else checking with several tests over time with a diet squeezing progressively harder like I did. I am aware of one forum member here (I do not have his permission to name him, but maybe he will chime in) who did test precontest and then months after the contest on the same dose. When dieting his IGF-1 was extremely low, months later when eating and gaining weight, one the same growth hormone and dose, his IGF-1 was high.

Mighty Mouse is aware of these examples, and that is why he asked about your diet. There was no need to be all nasty to him, and, as you can see, saying your diet is "good" did not answer the question. What he really wants to know is are you eating a lot of calories or not. I hope his question makes more sense to you now in the context of what you now know. Please try to have some polite discussion on the subject. This is helpful to all of us in learning as we go. It is not like we can find studies of bodybuilders and diet and IGF-1.

 

[malfeasance]

mtt,

No need to be hostile. This is just a discussion. My personal experience shows that diet matters a lot. A LOT. No, I do not know why, exactly.

Your T3 example is not really relevant. You took T3, and your T3 went up. That is one of those "duh" moments, but it does not illustrate what you are trying to show.

We are discussing IGF-1. You are not injecting IGF-1 and then testing your blood. You are injecting growth hormone and then hoping for a conversion to IGF-1 and consequent high levels.

On pharmaceutical growth hormone (not "pharma grade") my IGF-1 dropped all the way down to 57 due to a very restrictive diet in contest prep. Since I have several blood tests of IGF-1 during prep, I got to see it first hand. Consistently injecting hgh, but progressively restricting diet and raising cardio, resulted in lower and lower IGF-1 scores over time.

Now I am just one person. I have not conducted this test on a cohort of 40,000 volunteers, with 10,000 injecting IGF-1 and dieting, 10,000 injecting IGF-1 and eating a lot, and 10,000 not injecting and dieting, and 10,000 not injecting and eating a lot.

I realize anecdote is not the singular of data (datum is, LOL!), but I thought I would share my story with you as you still might find it useful, especially since I am not aware of anybody else checking with several tests over time with a diet squeezing progressively harder like I did. I am aware of one forum member here (I do not have his permission to name him, but maybe he will chime in) who did test precontest and then months after the contest on the same dose. When dieting his IGF-1 was extremely low, months later when eating and gaining weight, one the same growth hormone and dose, his IGF-1 was high.

Mighty Mouse is aware of these examples, and that is why he asked about your diet. There was no need to be all nasty to him, and, as you can see, saying your diet is "good" did not answer the question. What he really wants to know is are you eating a lot of calories or not. I hope his question makes more sense to you now in the context of what you now know. Please try to have some polite discussion on the subject. This is helpful to all of us in learning as we go. It is not like we can find studies of bodybuilders and diet and IGF-1.

 

[138casanova]

I appreciate the discourse, fellas. I find all this very interesting, as my diet was fairly restrictive with regards to carbohydrates, calorie consumption, and using IF at least a few days a week. I think I will try increasing my carbohydrates and calories for the next few weeks and see if there any anecdotal noticeable changes. Really glad I found this place. [emoji109]

 

[Savagesteve]

Any live near [EDIT: LOCATION REMOVED] ? Hgh been stuck there for a month!!! Holy fuck I hope it's been freezing otherwise I wouldv lost a shit amount of potency. fucking usps man

Are you fucking serious? You post location and don’t even think about the weather where it comes from fucking China...do us a favor and don’t post anymore

Stuck where? Is it in Customs? Isn't it shipped locally? It can't be just sitting in a post office, can it?

Great job dickhead. You reposted the same shit... @Millard Baker can you delete the location on post #5,338 please?

 

[slarshyeight31]

Is the email on the first page still current? Thanks

 

[Mighty-mouse]

So since I been back from gods country..... Middle East. I started back up on 6iu a day pinned mornings. The reason I’m not split dosing is because I noticed a better fat burning effect injecting full dose in the AM. I will be getting bloodwork on feb 8th before I head back to Saudi.

Still only taking 250mg of test a week and 50mg provi with 100mcg of T4

Cialis 20mg every 3 days..... fuck around find out. Will post bloodwork when I get it.

Also next hitch back I will be testing month on injecting 6iu IM shoulder on growth and testing the difference.

 

[138casanova]

So since I been back from gods country..... Middle East. I started back up on 6iu a day pinned mornings. The reason I’m not split dosing is because I noticed a better fat burning effect injecting full dose in the AM. I will be getting bloodwork on feb 8th before I head back to Saudi.

Still only taking 250mg of test a week and 50mg provi with 100mcg of T4

Cialis 20mg every 3 days..... fuck around find out. Will post bloodwork when I get it.

Also next hitch back I will be testing month on injecting 6iu IM shoulder on growth and testing the difference.

Do you think the increased fat loss is due to the increase in serum GH response related to the size of your dosage at one time?

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Do you think the increased fat loss is due to the increase in serum GH response related to the size of your dosage at one time?

Honestly I really don’t know. I do know on the same diet I got down to 7-8 % with single dosing mornings then split dosing 11-12%

It may increase my T3 a lot more as well I have to check back on my blood work to see

 

[138casanova]

Honestly I really don’t know. I do know on the same diet I got down to 7-8 % with single dosing mornings then split dosing 11-12%

It may increase my T3 a lot more as well I have to check back on my blood work to see

One more question (for now), my alt and ast were both elevated, could the GH be causing that?

 

[Mighty-mouse]

One more question (for now), my alt and ast were both elevated, could the GH be causing that?

It could in theory. When you inject growth it will make your liver work a little harder converting the growth to IGF-1. I take liver care/liv52 made by Himalayas. You can find it on Amazon. My liver is always in the low range and I used to drink ALOT.

I take 2 pills before bed every night all natural products and works real well