PCT 42 years old

[jerrynew]

I am wondering if you can give me some advise on my PCT. I am struggling to recover. Perhaps I need more time, but I would like to hear your opinion.

I am 42 years old. Have been on test + something for 3 years with breaks in between. I was off everything during breaks. Cycles were around 12-14 weeks.

My blood test after 25 days after last injection
I used HCG 2000UI EOD and Clomid 60mg, but I am not sure if the HCG works.

Total Testosterone (Siemens) 12 nmol/L (8.3-29)
Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin 20 nmol/L (11-71)
Calculated Free Testosterone 303.9 pmol/L (255-725)
FSH 1 UI/L (<7)
LH 0.1 UI/L (<7)
E2 (ATEL) 84 pmol/L



Blood test results from 09/5/2022 (47 days after last injection)
I started using different HCG after the last blood test. So this one is with new HCG. Again not sure if its working.

Total Testosterone (Siemens) 10 nmol/L (8.3-29) decrease from 3 weeks ago (12)
Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin 18 nmol/L (11-71) decrease from 3 weeks ago (20)
Calculated Free Testosterone 267.3 pmol/L (255-725) decrease from 3 weeks ago (303.9)
FSH 3 UI/L (<7) increase from 1
LH 1.4 UI/L (<7) increase from 0.1
E2 (ATEL) <70 pmol/L decrease



Blood test results from 30/5/2022 (63 days after last injection, 1 month using HCG I think it works)
Continuing with HCG 2000UI EOD and Clomid 60mg.

Total Testosterone (Siemens) 11 nmol/L (8.3-29) increase from 3 weeks ago (10)
Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin 16 nmol/L (11-71) decrease from 3 weeks ago (18)
Calculated Free Testosterone 324.9 pmol/L (255-725) increase from 3 weeks ago (267.3)
FSH 6 UI/L (<7) increase from 3 (might be because I took few shots of HMG)
LH 4.1 UI/L (<7) increase from 1.4 (HCG injection 1 day before blood test; 1 month on HCG now)
E2 (ATEL) 73 pmol/L increase from less than 70
Prolactin 264 mIU/L (40-450) first measurement

My LH and FSH increased quite a lot from my last blood test, which might give a sign that my HPTA is recovering and functional. But test is not increasing.

The biggest issue is my libido. Its hard to get it up. I feel fine physically. I have morning wood sometimes.

Do you think that I can still increase my testosterone with more time staying on HCG? My worry is that my test is still the same after 2 months.

 

[Ryu82]

TRT.

 

[jerrynew]

TRT.

Are you saying that's the only option from what you see? Why?

I do not want to go on TRT. For me this is last resort. I would like to try to recover.

Many studies says that it sometimes takes longer. Even 1 year. Can time help me?

 

[Ryu82]

Are you saying that's the only option from what you see? Why?

I do not want to go on TRT. For me this is last resort. I would like to try to recover.

Many studies says that it sometimes takes longer. Even 1 year. Can time help me?

Just with your age and numbers its looks like a recovery to where you will be in a good position reference range wise might not happen.

Do you intend to keep blasting gear on occasion or are you done with it?

Time helps but you should be 90% recovered after 3 months off.

 

[jerrynew]

Just with your age and numbers its looks like a recovery to where you will be in a good position reference range wise might not happen.

Do you intend to keep blasting gear on occasion or are you done with it?

Time helps but you should be 90% recovered after 3 months off.

I don't plan to blast. I want to clean up and move on.

 

[Ryu82]

I don't plan to blast. I want to clean up and move on.

In that case I would keep pushing the recovery plan and see where you land in 4-6 months. HCG and Clomid help to get things moving again but it looks like you will just need more time.

 

[jerrynew]

In that case I would keep pushing the recovery plan and see where you land in 4-6 months. HCG and Clomid help to get things moving again but it looks like you will just need more time.

Thank you for the kind words. I really hope I will get out of this situation and my balls restart making decent levels.

 

[jerrynew]

I have done some additional reading and this is how I would diagnose my problem.

As my blood work shows and correctly pointed by LilB, the HPTA function was most likely restored during the PCT. I now have primary hypogonadism, the testicles do not respond to the LH hormone stimulation - therefore generating low testosterone levels.

As for the treatment, there are studies and reports on forums that it can be treated by HCG-overstimulation of the Leydic cells. This also pushes the testicles to increase volume. This can take however many months. Some respond sooner, some later, some never.

So I believe that my HPTA is working and sending LH signals (based on the blood test), but my balls are simply not fully responding after about 8 weeks of HCG stimulation. My balls were too long asleep with minimal stimulation during breaks for 3-6 months a year.

1. If my HCG is bunk, that might be one reason why the balls are not responding. I will try to use HCG dose 2 hours before my blood work to see if there is any difference. If there is no testosterone spike either my balls are not responding at all or the HCG is bunk.
2. Another reason is that I need more time for my balls to recover.
3. Or I will never recover from this and TRT will be the only option.

I can only hope that I will recover and get to decent levels with more time. That is the only hope I have now, but the blood work is not showing any signs of improvements on testosterone generation since my first blood work.

As for my mental health, I am extremely depressed because of my erection problems. That is the only problem I have and I think about it every minute of the day. Apparently testosterone does not directly impact the erection and my cardio vascular is good, but it signals to the brain for arousal. No signals means its harder to get it up.

Physically I have no issues to do whatever I need to do and feel with good energy so far.

Due to my condition, I will most likely loose my new relationship which did not even started yet. I will not be able to have decent sex. Its very difficult situation, because I always wanted family and this was my last chance.

I am not even sure if doctors would help me with TRT if I need based on my test levels. They might just tell me I am fine, because I am in range.

I will keep you posted on my next blood test, but I don't feel any difference after 3 weeks. So I think I will get same the results again.

 

[Ryu82]

Some doctors will help, others are useless. I would go to a TRT clinic vs. visiting a GP.

As an interim for your erection issue, can Cialis be leveraged?

It might also be wise if you have not already to get your sperm levels checked if a family is on the priority list.

 

[jerrynew]

Some doctors will help, others are useless. I would go to a TRT clinic vs. visiting a GP.

As an interim for your erection issue, can Cialis be leveraged?

It might also be wise if you have not already to get your sperm levels checked if a family is on the priority list.

I have Cialis ready, not using it. But I think she will not be interested to start a relationship with a guy who has these kind of problems. I myself don't feel myself as a man anymore after realizing the recovery might be not possible. Have a huge depression from it, but I keep doing business as usual.

Planing to check my sperm in few weeks. (now 81 days after last injection so sperm might be already new as it apparently takes at least 74 days to create new sperm).

 

[Ryu82]

Indeed the sperm cycle is a little long. I went through fertility issues (not due to sperm count but do to motility) from gear use. I had to come off TRT and within 4 months my wife was pregnant. (HCG and Clomid protocol all self prescribed as the GP's here are dumb as shit)

Dont let low test numbers get you down as its indeed very very common even without past gear use. It also fucks with your head which is not good. The nature of a man is not based on his test numbers.

Get everything checked out, jump on TRT if you need to and move forward with life. You will come on the winning side.

 

[testaholic]

Did you take 19nors on cycle? Did you use HCG on cycle? Provided no to the first, and yes to the second, you should recover just fine. Maybe 6months. Prob no more than a year, and even thats pushing it. 42 is not that old.

 

[jerrynew]

Did you take 19nors on cycle? Did you use HCG on cycle? Provided no to the first, and yes to the second, you should recover just fine. Maybe 6months. Prob no more than a year, and even thats pushing it. 42 is not that old.

Unfortunately, I did not use HCG during cycle (big mistake, I NOW know). I used HCG 10000 IU only after each cycle. Now I think this was not enough, because my balls never fully recovered. I neglected the PCTs I have to say.

I had at least 3-4 months breaks every year, but stupidly was not taking blood tests to check the levels.

Never used Deca. I used Tren sometimes for small period of times with low dosage with Masteron. But I used Tren before this PCT for 4 weeks with Masteron.

I am extremely worried and hope my balls (Leydig Cells) kick back to get me to decent test levels. 15 nmol/L (8.3-29) would be good start for my age and I think I might be okay with that and perhaps work on increasing it more over time. My balls are already decent size after almost 3 months. Hard to say if its the max size but if I measure it with plain meter its definitely around 4cm in lenth and 2cm thick (+- something). Pituitary seems to work as per blood test (started working with higher values after 2 months from last injection).

I am terrified to see the next blood test next week, because if the levels are same again, clearly the problem is that balls are not able to produce more testosteron. I am not sure if they need just more time - that would be the best case scenario for me. But I am not planning to give up for at least 1 year before seeking alternatives.

One week from now and its going to be 3 months after last injection, I am starting to feel my penis again. It was like a rubber until now. Erections are difficult, but when I get it up its functional. I really need to make more testosterone to fix the libido and medium ED I have. That is the most worrying part for me right now as i have new relationship infront of me which I would like to not miss.

 

[testaholic]

lot to unpack there. I will say there are mixed reports on tren and specifically how long it shuts you down for. some studies have shown that tren metabolites remain in your system for 18m following cessation of use, whether this is enough to cause shut down, who knows. but it could be a contributing factor... personally if I were to run tren, I would prob just cruise on test etc for a good year or 2 before coming off, just to make sure the tren is out and gone

nothing you can do now about not having taken hcg on cycle. at this point, all you can do it accept you made some decisions that cause you to be where you are now, and adjust accordingly. youre gonna have to just give it time and stay on protocol. its likely that you'll bounce back, you prob wont back to where you were pre-cycles just because you're a few years older now and you already prob did cause some damage / permanent atrophy, but again.. can't do anything about that

 

[jerrynew]

lot to unpack there. I will say there are mixed reports on tren and specifically how long it shuts you down for. some studies have shown that tren metabolites remain in your system for 18m following cessation of use, whether this is enough to cause shut down, who knows. but it could be a contributing factor... personally if I were to run tren, I would prob just cruise on test etc for a good year or 2 before coming off, just to make sure the tren is out and gone

nothing you can do now about not having taken hcg on cycle. at this point, all you can do it accept you made some decisions that cause you to be where you are now, and adjust accordingly. youre gonna have to just give it time and stay on protocol. its likely that you'll bounce back, you prob wont back to where you were pre-cycles just because you're a few years older now and you already prob did cause some damage / permanent atrophy, but again.. can't do anything about that

Thank you for your support. I hope I will see some change in my blood work (3 weeks after last one) which will suggest that I am bouncing back.

I have to say I have very hard time now. I am extremely embarrassed because of the ED issue. I was extremely healthy before with no erection problems. Same during cycle.

Plus the literature says that I need at least 15 nmol/L, idealy 18 nmol/L to restore the ED. I think this will not be achievable unless some magic happens with my balls.

I have to admit, it was not worth it. I traded few years of getting more muscle for the rest of my life of being on low test.

 

[Ryu82]

I have to admit, it was not worth it. I traded few years of getting more muscle for the rest of my life of being on low test.

This statement right here should be a sticky. There are way to many guys that don't think long term. Way to many overly young guys as well.

 

[Country Club Hero]

This statement right here should be a sticky. There are way to many guys that don't think long term. Way to many overly young guys as well.

It’s important to see and hear that for sure. But I think most guys are probably like I used to be in thinking that being on TRT would be nbd. Pinning isn’t a problem.

but what they don’t tell you is that it isn’t the same as natural. There’s something better about a high sex drive/high testosterone natural vs the same but synthetic. Just something is missing with synthetic. Probably something downstream in the system or perhaps in the brain. But different and better natural. Too late for me now but I wish I had been more reluctant to hop on TRT at 35 after only 5 years of mild cycling.

 

[jerrynew]

Too late for me now but I wish I had been more reluctant to hop on TRT at 35 after only 5 years of mild cycling.

I just don't know how to manage my situation now. I cannot comprehend the ED I have now when I finally meet someone I really like. In my age this is my last chance and I am not functional. If the ED is gone, I would be okay.

TRT will be probably the only option for ED if I don't recover. But I don't know if the doctors doctors prescribe it to me or if I have to use black market to get test. I guess I will have to try a TRT clinic or something.

I hope I recover to decent levels. I will try my best to give a time.

 

[jerrynew]

84 days from last injection:
I have no longer ED from yesterday and I get erection as before. It seems things are improving. Tomorrow blood test.

 

[jerrynew]

Not much increase but progress. I am already happy I have libido back. I hope that Testosterone levels might go up in next 12 months as my body goes through recovery.

Blood test results from 20/06/2022 (85 days after last injection)
Total Testosterone (Siemens) 12 nmol/L (8.3-29) decrease from 3 weeks ago (12)
Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin 13 nmol/L (11-71) decrease from 3 weeks ago (20)
DHEAS 12 umol/L (3.0-10)
Calculated Free Testosterone 346.3 pmol/L (255-725) decrease from 3 weeks ago (303.9)
FSH 7 UI/L (<7)
LH 3.9 UI/L (<7)
E2 (ATEL) <70 pmol/L
PROG 2 nmol/L
Prolactin 376 mIU/L (40-450)
Cortisol 1008 nmol/L (120-620 nmol/L)