MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
PCT after Testo C 250mg e5d
- Thread starter n1x0n
- Start date
Yeah, problem with using it during the entire cycle is that it will be so darn expensive. The price is $54 per 5000iu.
Not a low dose. It twice a week, which is 500 iu a week total
Walker
New Member
every 5 days is not twice a week?
Walker
New Member
I responded earlier, maybe you missed it. But I can also say that everybody says different. Some say it's a good cycle to start with and not that low, some say it's to low and a waste of time. Eventually I need to stop listen and just make a decision which I have.
I'm not changing my mind on the dosage one more time.
Northern Nutrition
Subscriber
Use your hCG the last ten wks of your cycle @ 250iu 2/wk so that only one 5k vial of lyophilized hcg is required.
Walker
New Member
well do us a favor . let us know what kind of gains you get at that dosage....
Hehe. I got 15 2ml vials (250mg/ml). Would you recommend 500 e7d instead?
I said twice a week. Do it how ever you want
Are you talking about test or hcg?*375mg.
Hehe I was talking about Testo, and I think Walker was also.
Walker
New Member
yes I was talking test and in his original post it clearly stated 250 mg's e5d....
Yeah, but how do I store this? If I mix it it will only last för about 20-30 days (?)
Walker
New Member
HOW TO MIX AND STORE hCG.
The water you need to reconstitute hCG is bacteriostatic water.
Calculating hCG:
There isn't a specific ratio of ml to IU. It depends on how you mix it. It's quite simple. If you dillute 5,000 IUs hCG with 5ml of bacwater, the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml. Divide the same 5,000 IUs with 10 ml and the end result is 500 IUs per ml. Therefore, a large part depends on the concentration of hCG per ampoule or vial.
Mixing hCG:
Items needed: bacteriostatic water (not the water/solvent that comes with the kit) and some 5ml empty sterile vials or some syringes/slin pins.
1) Open hcg/amp with powder
2) Use a syringe to pull out 1ml of Bac Water and put in amp with hCG
3) It will instantly dissolve
4) Take syringe and add the mixed hCG solution to the sterile vial
5) Swirl gently and you have 5000IU's of hCG
6) Then draw 0.2ml (1000iu) and inject
7) put the rest in the refrigerator
8) Only use as much bac water as you need, too much may have a detrimental effect when the reconstituted hCG is stored.
9) For multi dose vials of powder (IE 5000iu) simply flip off the lid, draw up 2.5ml of bac water and squirt into the vial, then every 0.5ml or 50 on a 1ml slin pin will be 1000iu.
Addendum:
2) 1ml is a guideline, you could just as easily add 2ml then adjust 6) accordingly (IE: double, 0.4ml).
•The reason your discarding the amp of solvent is because its made for a single use.
•The most common side affect associated with hCG is gynecomastia. The concurrent intake of Nolvadex with hCG prevents gynecomastia, prevents/minimizes leydig cell desensitization and continues the stimulation of pituitary LH once hCG has been discontinued.
•hCG will last up to 6 weeks if mixed with Bac water instead of the solvent it comes with.
•You can keep the mixed hCG in vials or syringes in the fridge till use.
hCG DOSING:
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
When you take AAS LH levels decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, this causes you're testes to shrink
Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu hCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function without causing desensitization/saturation associated with high doses of hCG.
A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a thrice weekly shot of 250iu hCG, or possibly a twice weekly shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion.
The above protocol is by Eric Potratz
Another protocol is the blast method, this can be used if for some reason you haven't ran hCG on cycle.
This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.
Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.
An example would be 2500iu - 5000iu shot 2-3 x wkly for 4wks.
I do have some scientific evidence that a 6000iu shot increased testosterone by 50% but did not alter the T > E ratio.
In fact some athletes have used hcg at 5000iu weekly while coming off cycle to successfully balance the T > E ratio.
I think it's worth pointing out that in clinical studies it was shown that a single 10000iu shot desensitized the leydig cells for 96hrs.
From my latest research (taken from a recent article by the Endocrinology Society) i am now using and advocating the protocol of 1000iu injected once weekly.
Here is the science behind this protocol:
An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.
The stimulation of leydig cells with large amounts of hCG rapidly reduces their number of receptors, this phenemenom is termed down-regulation.
Although these changes decrease testosterone levels to just above diurnal maxima 24-48hrs after initial injection repeated stimulation does not yield the same results.
A single injection of hCG is followed by a long steroidogenic response characterized by two phases of testosterone secretion.
Studies show that this second phase which can last as long as 8 days can increase testosterone in plasma by 2.2 x above maximal diurnal secretion even though hCG is no longer present in plasma.
The results indicate that hCG injections can be given every 6-7 days due to the prolonged steroidogenic response.
It is advisable to start this protocol around week 2-3 in the cycle and continue till the start of PCT.
hCG and gynecomastia.
HCG can cause gyno, this is probably due to hCG's ability to increase the dynamics of the CYP450 enzyme, the aromatase enzyme is part of this family so it's possible to note a marked increase in aromatase activity, this should not prove to be a problem if you are already taking an AI on cycle for estrogen management but it is something that you need to be aware of.
hCG use and the P450 cytochrome:
Firstly a little basic info on the P450 enzyme and why hCG use on cycle is extremely beneficial:
The CYP450 (cytochrome P450) enzyme system is a key pathway for drug metabolism.
Many lipophilic drugs must undergo biotransformation to more hydrophilic compounds to be excreted from the body.
The majority of drugs undergo phase I metabolism (e.g., oxidation, reduction) by CYP450 enzymes,
this is especially indicative of anabolic androgenic steroids and endogenous steroid hormones.
We all know the importance of incorporating hCG into our cycle, this is just another good reason to use hCG.
In laymans terms hCG increases the dynamics of CYP450 which in turn increases the rate at which drugs can be metabolized,
which in turn increases protein dynamics.
Basically by the action of hCG on P450 dynamics it also increases pregnenolone which
is the precursor for all other steroid hormones and has many benefits,
one of which is that it serves to keep/restore a natural hormonal balance within this key pathway even if the HPTA is suppressed,
it also has energizing, anti-stress benefits, elevates mood through the raising of NDMA activity and reduces excess Cortisol,
so if we can increase this steroid hormone with the use of hCG, we should.
Thanks to Patmuscle for this video showing mixing and subcutaneous injection technique.
http://www.medicalvideos.us/play.php?vid=689
Source:http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-and-testosterone-information/55418-hcg-mixing-storing-dosing.html
The water you need to reconstitute hCG is bacteriostatic water.
Calculating hCG:
There isn't a specific ratio of ml to IU. It depends on how you mix it. It's quite simple. If you dillute 5,000 IUs hCG with 5ml of bacwater, the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml. Divide the same 5,000 IUs with 10 ml and the end result is 500 IUs per ml. Therefore, a large part depends on the concentration of hCG per ampoule or vial.
Mixing hCG:
Items needed: bacteriostatic water (not the water/solvent that comes with the kit) and some 5ml empty sterile vials or some syringes/slin pins.
1) Open hcg/amp with powder
2) Use a syringe to pull out 1ml of Bac Water and put in amp with hCG
3) It will instantly dissolve
4) Take syringe and add the mixed hCG solution to the sterile vial
5) Swirl gently and you have 5000IU's of hCG
6) Then draw 0.2ml (1000iu) and inject
7) put the rest in the refrigerator
8) Only use as much bac water as you need, too much may have a detrimental effect when the reconstituted hCG is stored.
9) For multi dose vials of powder (IE 5000iu) simply flip off the lid, draw up 2.5ml of bac water and squirt into the vial, then every 0.5ml or 50 on a 1ml slin pin will be 1000iu.
Addendum:
2) 1ml is a guideline, you could just as easily add 2ml then adjust 6) accordingly (IE: double, 0.4ml).
•The reason your discarding the amp of solvent is because its made for a single use.
•The most common side affect associated with hCG is gynecomastia. The concurrent intake of Nolvadex with hCG prevents gynecomastia, prevents/minimizes leydig cell desensitization and continues the stimulation of pituitary LH once hCG has been discontinued.
•hCG will last up to 6 weeks if mixed with Bac water instead of the solvent it comes with.
•You can keep the mixed hCG in vials or syringes in the fridge till use.
hCG DOSING:
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
When you take AAS LH levels decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, this causes you're testes to shrink
Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu hCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function without causing desensitization/saturation associated with high doses of hCG.
A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a thrice weekly shot of 250iu hCG, or possibly a twice weekly shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion.
The above protocol is by Eric Potratz
Another protocol is the blast method, this can be used if for some reason you haven't ran hCG on cycle.
This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.
Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.
An example would be 2500iu - 5000iu shot 2-3 x wkly for 4wks.
I do have some scientific evidence that a 6000iu shot increased testosterone by 50% but did not alter the T > E ratio.
In fact some athletes have used hcg at 5000iu weekly while coming off cycle to successfully balance the T > E ratio.
I think it's worth pointing out that in clinical studies it was shown that a single 10000iu shot desensitized the leydig cells for 96hrs.
From my latest research (taken from a recent article by the Endocrinology Society) i am now using and advocating the protocol of 1000iu injected once weekly.
Here is the science behind this protocol:
An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.
The stimulation of leydig cells with large amounts of hCG rapidly reduces their number of receptors, this phenemenom is termed down-regulation.
Although these changes decrease testosterone levels to just above diurnal maxima 24-48hrs after initial injection repeated stimulation does not yield the same results.
A single injection of hCG is followed by a long steroidogenic response characterized by two phases of testosterone secretion.
Studies show that this second phase which can last as long as 8 days can increase testosterone in plasma by 2.2 x above maximal diurnal secretion even though hCG is no longer present in plasma.
The results indicate that hCG injections can be given every 6-7 days due to the prolonged steroidogenic response.
It is advisable to start this protocol around week 2-3 in the cycle and continue till the start of PCT.
hCG and gynecomastia.
HCG can cause gyno, this is probably due to hCG's ability to increase the dynamics of the CYP450 enzyme, the aromatase enzyme is part of this family so it's possible to note a marked increase in aromatase activity, this should not prove to be a problem if you are already taking an AI on cycle for estrogen management but it is something that you need to be aware of.
hCG use and the P450 cytochrome:
Firstly a little basic info on the P450 enzyme and why hCG use on cycle is extremely beneficial:
The CYP450 (cytochrome P450) enzyme system is a key pathway for drug metabolism.
Many lipophilic drugs must undergo biotransformation to more hydrophilic compounds to be excreted from the body.
The majority of drugs undergo phase I metabolism (e.g., oxidation, reduction) by CYP450 enzymes,
this is especially indicative of anabolic androgenic steroids and endogenous steroid hormones.
We all know the importance of incorporating hCG into our cycle, this is just another good reason to use hCG.
In laymans terms hCG increases the dynamics of CYP450 which in turn increases the rate at which drugs can be metabolized,
which in turn increases protein dynamics.
Basically by the action of hCG on P450 dynamics it also increases pregnenolone which
is the precursor for all other steroid hormones and has many benefits,
one of which is that it serves to keep/restore a natural hormonal balance within this key pathway even if the HPTA is suppressed,
it also has energizing, anti-stress benefits, elevates mood through the raising of NDMA activity and reduces excess Cortisol,
so if we can increase this steroid hormone with the use of hCG, we should.
Thanks to Patmuscle for this video showing mixing and subcutaneous injection technique.
http://www.medicalvideos.us/play.php?vid=689
Source:http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-and-testosterone-information/55418-hcg-mixing-storing-dosing.html
^^^^Good post^^^^
If you click on the @Walker 2nd link and read down some, you'll come across a name..."Eric M. Potratz". He's the guy who done studies on administration of hcg at the beginning of a cycle versus middle or towards the end. The study name is "Everything that's wrong with your pct".
If you click on the @Walker 2nd link and read down some, you'll come across a name..."Eric M. Potratz". He's the guy who done studies on administration of hcg at the beginning of a cycle versus middle or towards the end. The study name is "Everything that's wrong with your pct".
Northern Nutrition
Subscriber
Preload your pins and freeze them. Yes, you can do this.
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