MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Please help, Statin advice, Lipids are off
- Thread starter Scruf
- Start date
readalot
Member
the 80s were a while back.
At least pull an ApoB/A1 panel.
www.mdpi.com
Figure 2
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
At least pull an ApoB/A1 panel.
Use of Apolipoprotein B in the Era of Precision Medicine: Time for a Paradigm Change?
Atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease (ASCVD) remains the leading cause of death worldwide and the risk of a major cardiovascular event is highest among those with established disease. Ongoing management of these patients relies on the accurate assessment of their response to any prescribed...
www.mdpi.com
Figure 2
Statins Do Not Decrease Small, Dense Low-Density Lipoprotein - PMC
In an observational study, we examined the effect of statins on low-density-lipoprotein (LDL) subfractions. Using density-gradient ultracentrifugation, we measured small, dense LDL density in 612 patients (mean age, 61.7 ± 12.6 yr), some with and ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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False. Check with your provider or coach on that. Big difference between lipoprotein concentrations vs particle counts and size distribution.
Even though you were downright shiyty to me, I certainly still do care about your health.
Since you didn't read the more technical material I shared with you here's the simplified version:
Cholesterol Particle Sizes: Why Do These Matter and How Do You Test?
Large amounts of small LDL cholesterol particles can be concerning because of these smaller particles' superior ability to penetrate arterial walls.www.healthline.com
For those interested. Hope it helps someone. Using a statin is not a get out of jail free card for androgen abuse.
Glad your MRI/echo went well.
I have a whole team of doctors and a wonderful coach. the best way to reduce CVD risk is to reduce LDL. Period.
Yes, there are new tests, but the overwhelming mountain of data leads to a reduction of LDLs. You cannot ignore the following statements from your quoted report: "Medical opinions on the benefits of advanced cholesterol testing range." The tests tend to track closely with LDL/HDL levels. I did have both done and they track very closely with my LDL/HDL levels.
My Lipoprotein B is 107 and Lipaprotien A is 61.
SO AGAIN, AND UNDENIABLE CONCLUSION IS THAT THE STATIN WAS EXCEPTIONALLY VALUABLE FOR REDUCING MY LDL LEVELS AND REDUCING MY CVD RISK.
This is just like your argument about 96% purity. Just let the facts be the facts and stop making up your own. Your conclusions are dangerous.
My agreement with my coach is that I do not talk publicly about my protocol. That said, I was taking a meaningful amount of PEDs when the cholesterol tests were done.
readalot
Member
Oh wow! Didn't know that, i'm having some issues with my lipids too and with a little search here i saw guys are taking 2,5 - 5 with very good results as well.
The OPs original total cholesterol numbers seems optimal for longevity. From major studies i have seen. If some one has a condition that is aggravated with high LDL then lowering LDL could be a benefit. And there is much evidence about LDL but that was the marker that was chosen to be studied for decades so there would of course be more info on it. But that does not mean it may be the best marker. Science moves on over time and optimal values can change. Where one wants there LDL level to be can depend on if they are more concerned with the state of their cardiovascular system of if longevity is their main concern as those 2 things are not necessarily the same from my reading.
The goal of my post, originally, was to find a way to correct my Cholesterol challenges, with continued AAS use. Longevity is very important to me and unfortunately that inlcudes AAS use. Before I restarted TRT+ last year I was morbidly obese and had a testosterone level below 100. A year later I have lost 80+ pounds of fat and am looking to compete as a bodybuilder again. Yes there are trade offs, but I think even with the AAS use I will live a very long time. The Statin has been very helpful for this goal.
readalot
Member
Use of Apolipoprotein B in the Era of Precision Medicine: Time for a Paradigm Change?
Atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease (ASCVD) remains the leading cause of death worldwide and the risk of a major cardiovascular event is highest among those with established disease. Ongoing management of these patients relies on the accurate assessment ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known Member
the thing that bothers me here is that he is asking for help but wont give the full information. he has a team of doctors and a coach but is asking people here for help and updating the thread.
to each their own.
Regardless, I am going to assume its tren and maybe even Var.
The damage is going to be temporary and statins may be good for supportive use
Granted tren is going to be ran for a reasonable amount of time. but personaly... I have never seen something trash my lipids like 150-250/wk of tren.
to each their own.
Regardless, I am going to assume its tren and maybe even Var.
The damage is going to be temporary and statins may be good for supportive use
Granted tren is going to be ran for a reasonable amount of time. but personaly... I have never seen something trash my lipids like 150-250/wk of tren.
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readalot
Member
Small dense low-density lipoprotein particles: clinically... : Current Opinion in Lipidology
indings Results of multiple prospective studies have supported earlier evidence that higher levels of sdLDL are significantly associated with greater ASCVD risk, in many cases independent of other lipid and ASCVD risk factors as well as levels of larger LDL particles. A number of properties of...
journals.lww.com
not a youtube guru or "coach"...
Dropbox
#03 - Ron Krauss, M.D.: a deep dive into heart disease - Peter Attia
"Anybody interested in this field should probably understand the origins." —Ron Krauss
peterattiamd.com
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readalot
Member
Good for you. I was fat growing up. Started changing that early on. And started Dr. prescribed TRT and cycles 25 years ago. I have had issues with my cholesterol well. But mine has been traditionally low with no medication, usually around 140 total and LDL around 80. I have tried for years to get it higher but to no avail. Life span seem to point to lower at those levels.
I found that as I was getting a bit older, it was getting tougher to keep my lipids in check. I had to eat perfectly, even during a bulk. I finally broke down and decided to try a very low dose of Crestor. I started at 5mg every other day, along with 300mgs CoQ10. I had absolutely no side effects. My LDL went to optimal but HDL remained low. I upped to dose to 5mg a day...still no side effects at all. My HDL is still a bit low, but better. I can also enjoy a cheeseburger and fries every other day for one meal and not worry about fucking up my values.
Every major cardiology organization in the world recognizes that low HDL and high LDL is bad for health and longevity. Might it turn out in some years that they were overestimating the risk? Sure. That's possible. But as of now, the consensus is clear. I just don't think there's any amount of PubMed articles or Dr. Google you're gonna do that trumps what these folks around the world have been studying their entire lives.
Every major cardiology organization in the world recognizes that low HDL and high LDL is bad for health and longevity. Might it turn out in some years that they were overestimating the risk? Sure. That's possible. But as of now, the consensus is clear. I just don't think there's any amount of PubMed articles or Dr. Google you're gonna do that trumps what these folks around the world have been studying their entire lives.
egruberman
Well-known Member
Statins are great for reducing ASCVD risk, however, I wonder. Are you referring to ApoB and Lp(a) here?
Generally speaking, Tom Dayspring suggests an ApoB target of <80mg/dL for average folks with no special risk factors like FH or family history of ASCVD. Personally, I had a non-zero result (40ish) on a CT-CAC at 48yo and a relative that had an MI at an early age, so I'm targeting <60mg/dL.
Lp(a) is an additional risk factor, determined by genetics and not really manageable with statins or any other drug short of a PCSK9 inhibitor and even then, there's a debate on whether that improves outcomes. Yours is fine.
Just to be clear, on my very first post it detailed my PEDs. Since thread started my protocol has changed but only after getting my lipids under control.
Totally agree, I recently started seeing a new, very good cardiologist. I was very clear about my AAS use. For me and my genetics, my HDLs hovered around 19 without any AAS use. The AAS didn’t have an affect on my HDL because they were already soo low. According to my cardiologist he wants to focus on the LDL as there isn’t anything we can do about the HDLs. As well he said if the LDL is low enough then the HDL being low should be mitigated.
musclemedicine
Member
Statins are a super safe and well studied drug, adjust the rest of your regimen as you like but the risk of going on a statin is null.
Your ASCVD risk assessment using the info you posted and assuming you’re white, normotensive and non-smoker you have a 5-7.5% risk of having a cardiac event in the next 10 years. According to current guidelines you should be on moderate intensity statin therapy. Rosuvastatin 5-10mg daily or Atorvastatin 10-20mg daily.
if AAS use was an option in the clinical risk calculators every Meso member would be recommended high intensity therapy.
Great feedback, thank you. Fast forward to today, i met with a great cardiologist and he put me on 10mg Rosuvastatin. My numbers are now
Total Cholesterol: 124
TG: 76
HDL-C 19
VLDL 15
LDL-C 90
Still working on it and am headed in the right direction.
