Powders and % from common synthesis/manufacturing

[Galileo]

Very few of us have access to proper testing in order to objectively quantify what the contents of 10g of "x" steroid really are. I don't mean impurities and contaminants, but the percentage of AAS in a raw amount of powder. Without any such means of testing, that means guessing. But some guesses are more informed than others.

So I got a question that maybe some of you can answer. But truth be told, I doubt there are many who can answer it, as it requires technical insight into synthesis of AAS powders, etc.

__________

If you've got "10g winstrol" or "10g anadrol"...How much of those 10g is actually pure winstrol/anadrol? Well if you bought from Sigma Aldrich, it would be 98% or thereabouts. The chinese aren't Sigma Aldrich, though.

But let's say your Chinese supplier has not diluted the product with some other substance. The AAS powder has not been cut. It is the direct result of the manufacturing process/synthesis the producer used. So he isn't out to cheat you.

However, it's not an unreasonable thought that the Chinese will not use super-duper expensive synthesis or purification to yield 98%. On the other hand, they DO manufacture said AAS. I mention win and anadrol as these are less commonly faked, as I believe they are cheaper to produce than say primo or anavar. So let's keep the dicussuion on the stuff that is easy/cheap to make.

And this is where the technical knowledge comes on. If you've got your "average" or most common synthesis of AAS powders for distribution in the West, what % content does this synthesis produce?

If there are 100 methods of synthesis and no method is more likely than the other, well then close the thread already and let's all blindly guess. But I would expect it more probable that some percentages are much more common than others, because one or few kinds of manufacturing processes are much more comonly used.

tl;dr: If you've got 10g of winny or oxy from your average chinese source and he hasn't cut the product, what % concentration is more likely given the most likely manuf. process?

A reply like "you'll never know, could be anything" is trivial and does not answer the question.

 

[Sworder]

What makes you think it isn't 99% pure?
A reply that you don't want "you'll never know" is true. You want to test an individual Chinese raw source's Test Cyp and it comes up as 80% purity. Does the same hold true for his winstrol? Obviously no.

Define "average Chinese source" would you say the same is true for other illegal drugs? What's the quality of your "average cocaine dealer?" Some have really good stuff and some don't. There is no generalizing if you want an accurate answer. Even if you test one batch doesn't mean the next is the same..

This has been the point of my opinion about testing. Just because you test one vial or one batch of product doesn't say shit about the next batch or the next vial.

You are clueless no matter what unless you test everything with a HPLC/MS...

I think your the post as a whole is pretty empty but you have one very good question. How is the substance synthesized and what is a typical yield after the synthesis? Does it need to be purified after initial the synthesis? I will look into this!

ALSO the notice of "cutting" the AAS... Where is this coming from? I know people that cut cocaine and go through a lot of trouble to do so. But is cutting even a step the chinese take or do they just neglect to purify it?

Read the quote from a gentleman @ elitefitness who got about 70% pure testosterone using some basic chemicals... Doesn't seem that hard to make. Would the Chinese go through much trouble to sell Testosterone that is cut when the process seems rather simple? 70% purity seems pretty good, now it goes to the idiots that state the IMPURITIES are metal, salts and cleaning agents to read this and possibly analyze what some of the IMPURITIES actually are...

many of you have seen my other posts about making steroids synthetically but always in the context of a laboratory setting, a masters in organic synthesis etc.. Lord knows over the years i have had my hands in a fair number of batches of a multitude of steroids, many of you have probably tasted my fruits but will never know.
myself and the boogeyman set out to attempt to do this synthesis with absolutely nothing from a scientific supply house, no glassware, no ph papers no all. We succeeded and ended up with base test so pure it crystallized like shattered glass.
THEORY: DHEA is two synthesis steps away from test base, one oxidation, one reduction. The most logical way is to reduce first the 17=O to create 5 androstenediol, this way there are many selective oxidation agents that will only convert the 3-OH to a =O and not the 17. Since DHEA is not water soluble one can not use water as a solvent for the reaction, the obvious choice is methanol since the reduction is done with sodium borohydride. A large excess of methanol is used because 5androdiol is much less soluble in methanol than DHEA so as it is formed it will slurry. The second step is full of possibilities but the available selective oxidizer is manganese dioxide, in this case the reaction is done in acetic acid which gives slight solubility to the androdiol to transiently come in and out of solution to react

experimental: DHEA was purchased from china in one kg quantity, methanol or methylhydrate from canadian tire, sodium borohydride from a hydrogen cell engine supplier online fifteen grams for fifteen dollars, good for 60 grams test. 10 grams DHEA dissolved in 400ml methanol and stirred using a milk frother in a regular glass nestled in ice. 2.5 grams sodium boro are slowly added as powder at a rate that does not allow the temp to exceed 40C. if a slurry forms thats good, it means product is forming, just add more cold methanol. after a total of one hour add vinegar until the bubbling on addition stops then dump into a liter of ice water. filter thru coffe filter and squeeze dry. dry in oven at 60C.
activated manganese dioxide is made from manganese dioxide from a ceramics supplier and then its boiled in nitirc acid to activate. make nitric acid by adding boiled down battery acid to stump remover (potassium nitrate) then boiling inside a bottle with a hose running to another bottle nestled in ice to collect the nitric acid. filter and rinse with an anhydrous solvent like a fuel system water remover, activated mang diox must be absolute dry. put the diol from the first step in 300ml acetic acid then slowly add the mang diox as a powder same fashion as above, stir for six to ten hours, you won't over oxidize since exact molar equivalents are used. now flood the reaction with five times volume ice water and filter out the base test plus unreacted diol and DHEA, minimum purity will be about 70%

note we activated mang diox by azeotropic distillation with benzene as we are too lazy to make nitric acid.

75 grams of DHEA can be had for about a buck a gram, all together maybe 2-4 dollars a gram for heat free decent test.

 

[Galileo]

"How is the substance synthesized and what is a typical yield after the synthesis?"

Exactly. No doubt...the % can vary greatly from source to source and from product to product from the same source.

But I'd imagine that mostly the same kinds of manufacturing are employed. Making some % more likely than others...assuming the seller has NOT cut the product.

Basically, in practical terms, it boils down to this. You've got 10g of winstrol/anadrol from a guy you do not think has cut the product. Assuming that guy (or the guy supplying him) has not sustained large costs in order to yield a higher or slightly higher yield, what is the more likely concentration.

And maybe it IS 98% concentration..I don't know if a large chunk of the powders come from the same places they're making medical grade stuff for their own markets.

I simply don't know about the chemistry and manufacturing process. It's a topic worthy of discussion, IMO. Even if the practical value is a bit limited!

 

[Sworder]

"How is the substance synthesized and what is a typical yield after the synthesis?"

Exactly. No doubt...the % can vary greatly from source to source and from product to product from the same source.

But I'd imagine that mostly the same kinds of manufacturing are employed. Making some % more likely than others...assuming the seller has NOT cut the product.

Basically, in practical terms, it boils down to this. You've got 10g of winstrol/anadrol from a guy you do not think has cut the product. Assuming that guy (or the guy supplying him) has not sustained large costs in order to yield a higher or slightly higher yield, what is the more likely concentration.

And maybe it IS 98% concentration..I don't know if a large chunk of the powders come from the same places they're making medical grade stuff for their own markets.

I simply don't know about the chemistry and manufacturing process. It's a topic worthy of discussion, IMO. Even if the practical value is a bit limited!

Fuck the discussion let's start asking about and researching the synthesizing process

 

[foreveryoung]

interesting topic

and I also wonder if there are some substances that are a little harder than others, like an extra difficult step in the synthesis, so that say "proviron" for example might be more difficult for them to manufacture purely than say "turinabol", and maybe there are less methods worked out and published for the chemists to work from, making some substances more of a risk to buy than others.

 

[hotdog23]

"How is the substance synthesized and what is a typical yield after the synthesis?"

Exactly. No doubt...the % can vary greatly from source to source and from product to product from the same source.

But I'd imagine that mostly the same kinds of manufacturing are employed. Making some % more likely than others...assuming the seller has NOT cut the product.

Basically, in practical terms, it boils down to this. You've got 10g of winstrol/anadrol from a guy you do not think has cut the product. Assuming that guy (or the guy supplying him) has not sustained large costs in order to yield a higher or slightly higher yield, what is the more likely concentration.

And maybe it IS 98% concentration..I don't know if a large chunk of the powders come from the same places they're making medical grade stuff for their own markets.

I simply don't know about the chemistry and manufacturing process. It's a topic worthy of discussion, IMO. Even if the practical value is a bit limited!

I get what your saying, I think it would depend on the compound as well. Is the process different in any way? How much do they limit "limiting reagents" etc you don't what kinda corners the cut. The picture I've gotten is it's a ugl manufacturer. Running out of a facility designed for the production of other API's. Back door business for an otherwise average company. Crude grade product

But for fun. I would like to hear further info on their process an what potential purity THEY EXPECT from their manufacturing

 

[Galileo]

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/dr-jims-hplc-ms-data.134359740

Dr Jim writes:

"FYI, the chemist at the USP standard facility mentioned in passing, they purchase a considerable amount the required base compounds such as Testosterone, Progesterone and Andro thru Chinese wholesalers.

Although the purity typically ranges between 75-85%, a purity that exceeds 80% is a "rare find".

Purity in this case only includes the INTACT COMPOUND and excludes congeners, substrates, androgen fragments or sub-fragments and other nonproduction contaminants.

Think about that, this is a DEA registered facility, that specializes in the sale of the highest quality AAS available, yet the highest purity they receive is around 85%. What do you believe the chances are of you or some UGL purchasing "raws" that exceed this degree of purity, over the net?"

Is this not relevant? Purity typically ranges between 75-85%?

 

[Sworder]

Is this not relevant? Purity typically ranges between 75-85%?

No, heresay without references AKA bullshit AKA a number thrown out of somebody's ass.