Proper way to inject HCG

How come I have to push my PCT out to 3 weeks? I read on muscle talk that clomid should be used 2 weeks after last injection of Test e.

So for me PCT starts 3 weeks after injection of test E because I'm using Nolvadex? Or the info on muscle talk is incorrect? Link below

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/articles/clomid-hcg.aspx

Bc SERM treatment will be ineffective and a waste until your test levels fall to normal ranges or less. At the two week mark on a high-ish dosed test cycle you'll probably still be a little high for SERMs to do their work.
 

It says

"The increased production of LH is achieved by a dual action of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is a mixed agonist/antagonist (SERM) at the estradiol receptor"

I tried finding the "dual" PCT but there are just to many out there and I don't want to take more than I need. Everyone says tamoxifen 40mg ED for week 1-2 of PCT and 20mg ED for the remaining 2 weeks is good enough.

What would be the best dual method for pct if you're only doing 500mg of test e/week?
 
^^^ As you are probably aware, exclusive of some rogue bathtub brewery, HCG was not even available for use by BB, and in spite of it ARNIE looked damn good IMO!

So yea it should be looked upon as an adjunct to PCT and used for higher potency longer duration cycles as you already mentioned mate.

HCG like many ancillaries has been applied as "one size fits all comers" by PED forums and bro-scientists, many having a vested interest in selling the products they are "recommending" IMO

To that end running HCG during SERM mediated PCT is just a great means of nullifying or minimizing the effect of SERMS
 
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Bc SERM treatment will be ineffective and a waste until your test levels fall to normal ranges or less. At the two week mark on a high-ish dosed test cycle you'll probably still be a little high for SERMs to do their work.

Thanks. That makes sense. 2 weeks after last injection I'm sure my test will still be some what high.
 
Thanks. That makes sense. 2 weeks after last injection I'm sure my test will still be somewhat high.

It takes about 5 half lives I believe for a drug to be completely metabolized from your body. Take test e with a half life of roughly 5-7days let's say. 5 half lives can be 25-35days. At 3 wks or 21 days not all will be out your system but your levels should be low enough for SERMs to start working.
 
It takes about 5 half lives I believe for a drug to be completely metabolized from your body. Take test e with a half life of roughly 5-7days let's say. 5 half lives can be 25-35days. At 3 wks or 21 days not all will be out your system but your levels should be low enough for SERMs to start working.

That's very helpful information. Everywhere else I read it says PCT after Test E should be 2 weeks after last injection. However 3 weeks makes more sense. You've been very helpful, I appreciate that.
 
That's very helpful information. Everywhere else I read it says PCT after Test E should be 2 weeks after last injection. However 3 weeks makes more sense. You've been very helpful, I appreciate that.

Wow, ok cool. I'm in the same boat as you, Wood4Days. I thought exactly the same, and many have said 10-14 days after last pin is when you can start Nolva (or clomid)... I guess I will be shooting for ~21 days instead, then do the standard Nolva at 40/40/20/20.

I'm not doing the dual pct as you've suggested with Nolva+Clomid because 1) I've understood clomid has some of its own sides, 2) 500mg Test E isn't aggressive, rather conservative, and something like Nolva done correctly is enough to recover just fine.

Please correct me on that Doc or Dr Jim if you get a chance to read. Thank you.
 
Dr. Jim has informed me it's closer to 7wks for a drug to be completely eliminated so that's even more of a reason if you're pinning 500mg a wk or so or more to extend PCT start to about 3wks.
 
Dr. Jim has informed me it's closer to 7wks for a drug to be completely eliminated so that's even more of a reason if you're pinning 500mg a wk or so or more to extend PCT start to about 3wks.

How about longer esters like deca. Would you wait like 4 weeks to start pct?
 
Dr. Jim has informed me it's closer to 7wks for a drug to be completely eliminated so that's even more of a reason if you're pinning 500mg a wk or so or more to extend PCT start to about 3wks.

Wow... 7 weeks! Ok, gotcha. So lots of people doing that "14 days after last pin" are just using a SERM but it's SUPER ineffective. At least at 3 weeks, your T levels will probably still be kind of high, but at least low enough now that your SERM is effective and gives you better recovery. Makes sense!
 
For deca I would stop it 2-3wks before the test, assuming a long estered test is being used, and then another 3 wks to start PCT after the test is stopped

Ok. I started another thread asking if its a good idea to switch to short esters the last 4 weeks of cycle. Like test p and npp. Would you recommend something like that so you dont have to wait so long to pct?
 
Honestly, this is ground breaking lol. I've done SO much research, specifically on PCT because I feel recovery is most important (as many others). But everywhere, no matter how you search and where you do, there's SO MANY differing views on half lives, when to start PCT, etc. And I think somewhere along these lines of differing views, "14 days after last pin" just became the norm and that's just what everyone does and preaches...

I guess at the end of the day, even if something like this is so widely proclaimed, you still can't take it as a truth. Goes to show the learning curve for AAS is never ending, indeed. And while Doc and Dr Jim seem to be on the "start at day 21" for pct, I'm not saying I deny it, but I'm sitting here looking for scholarly articles on Google to confirm this (need to understand half-lives better to get the answer). Nothing against you guys, I'd probably end up trusting you guys over all the randoms saying "14 days after last pin" - but I like to read and read I will.
 
Honestly, this is ground breaking lol. I've done SO much research, specifically on PCT because I feel recovery is most important (as many others). But everywhere, no matter how you search and where you do, there's SO MANY differing views on half lives, when to start PCT, etc. And I think somewhere along these lines of differing views, "14 days after last pin" just became the norm and that's just what everyone does and preaches...

I guess at the end of the day, even if something like this is so widely proclaimed, you still can't take it as a truth. Goes to show the learning curve for AAS is never ending, indeed. And while Doc and Dr Jim seem to be on the "start at day 21" for pct, I'm not saying I deny it, but I'm sitting here looking for scholarly articles on Google to confirm this (need to understand half-lives better to get the answer). Nothing against you guys, I'd probably end up trusting you guys over all the randoms saying "14 days after last pin" - but I like to read and read I will.

You may find a tool like steroid graph helpful to visually see the levels peaking and dropping.
 
Bdub22

Do you do both clomid and nolvadex for PCT?

I read the article (Do3gs) posted on as this thread that it's better to do both.
 
Bdub22

Do you do both clomid and nolvadex for PCT?

I read the article (Do3gs) posted on as this thread that it's better to do both.

Imo you dont need both alot of people run on or the other. However i run both during my pct. I just like to have all areas covered and i dont feel it hurts anything to run both clomid and nolva
 
Imo you dont need both alot of people run on or the other. However i run both during my pct. I just like to have all areas covered and i dont feel it hurts anything to run both clomid and nolva

In my understanding, both is better to cover all area. But only reason people might just do Nolva only for instance, is because clomid is known to give some sides. Sometimes in milder cycles, Nolva alone can give you good enough recovery.
 
In my understanding, both is better to cover all area. But only reason people might just do Nolva only for instance, is because clomid is known to give some sides. Sometimes in milder cycles, Nolva alone can give you good enough recovery.

You dont need both unless you want to. I just prefer both
 
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