mr_meanor
New Member
Medical News Today: Muscle-building protein shakes may threaten health.
Muscle-building protein shakes may threaten health
Muscle-building protein shakes may threaten health
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
protein shakes may threaten health
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mr_meanor
New Member
Interesting read
MisterSuperGod
New Member
We ain't mice and they ain't humans.
Who would have thought you couldn't live off of protein powder alone? Suppose i have to start eating real food. Damn mice.
Also a good read:
Drugs That Work In Mice Often Fail When Tried In People
I agree with most of your comments but this is incorrect obviously mice aren't humans but the same results usually translate, the next step would be primates or humans.
MisterSuperGod
New Member
Not always the case, but that's a moot point. The study is basically saying, a diet high in protein and low in other nutrients is bad for you. Well, duh!
Ah...okay, well that's just common knowledge nowadays, thank you for clarifying.
Not really. Studies in rats are a toss-up in translation to humans across the board if I’m not mistaken.
If protein shakes were detrimental to health I’d be dead. These studies are always shit and always have some sensational headline.
mp46
New Member
Don’t feel like finding the study to read but the article talks about protein shakes and then moves to BCAAs leucine, valine, and isoleucine. The rest of the article then references bcaa specifically and not the general protein.
So some takeaways:
BCAAs and not protein in general.
Not sure how many protein powders advertise bcaa content.
The mice went from high fat/carb diets to mostly protein/bcaa void of other nutrients.
The mice were given double their normal daily intake of bcaa
There’s no mention if the mice were given additional exercise or if the total macro count remained the same to take advantage of the increased bcaa content.
The article mentions it can reduce life 20 years but doesn’t mention how.
It does mention that the increased BCAAs in the blood compete for space with tryptophan which is the precourser to serotonin. I’m not sure if they are insinuating reduced serotonin reduces life 20 years or what.
Reading the abstract and conclusion of the actual study should answer some of these questions.
As far as mice testing in humans it completely depends on what is being tested. Mice are mammals with similar biological systems to humans but there are certainly differences. Mice are not primates, mice have different metabolic pathways, and mice produce and eliminate toxins different than humans.
For instance accutane we may take for acne causes birth defects, a reason doctors recommend users of accutane also take birth control. However, accutane doesn’t cause birth defects in mice, it does cause birth defects in rabbits. So if you had two indepent labs testing on each one, one lab would conclude it’s safe for human use while the other would say it’s not.
Another reason animal studies aren’t a great predictor is simply because researchers fuck it up, or humans fuck it up. The animal shelter aren’t free to do what ever and usually humans fail to collect data or they aren’t actually blind to their own study, meaning when they record data they know which subject is placebo, control, experiment, etc. this can lead to bias in reporting and data gathering, even subconsciously. Studies that actually looks for these differences find that data and research inconsistencies are an order of magnitude greater in animal studies vs human studies. So a lot of times you combine both problems and you don’t know if the study was invalid because humans/mice are different, and/or there was data errors in these studies.
It would be interesting to actually have a human study on physically active people to see the amount of bcaa in a persons blook taking just protein, protien/bcaa and natural diet to see how they compare and if they are competing with other hormones or precoursers.
So some takeaways:
BCAAs and not protein in general.
Not sure how many protein powders advertise bcaa content.
The mice went from high fat/carb diets to mostly protein/bcaa void of other nutrients.
The mice were given double their normal daily intake of bcaa
There’s no mention if the mice were given additional exercise or if the total macro count remained the same to take advantage of the increased bcaa content.
The article mentions it can reduce life 20 years but doesn’t mention how.
It does mention that the increased BCAAs in the blood compete for space with tryptophan which is the precourser to serotonin. I’m not sure if they are insinuating reduced serotonin reduces life 20 years or what.
Reading the abstract and conclusion of the actual study should answer some of these questions.
As far as mice testing in humans it completely depends on what is being tested. Mice are mammals with similar biological systems to humans but there are certainly differences. Mice are not primates, mice have different metabolic pathways, and mice produce and eliminate toxins different than humans.
For instance accutane we may take for acne causes birth defects, a reason doctors recommend users of accutane also take birth control. However, accutane doesn’t cause birth defects in mice, it does cause birth defects in rabbits. So if you had two indepent labs testing on each one, one lab would conclude it’s safe for human use while the other would say it’s not.
Another reason animal studies aren’t a great predictor is simply because researchers fuck it up, or humans fuck it up. The animal shelter aren’t free to do what ever and usually humans fail to collect data or they aren’t actually blind to their own study, meaning when they record data they know which subject is placebo, control, experiment, etc. this can lead to bias in reporting and data gathering, even subconsciously. Studies that actually looks for these differences find that data and research inconsistencies are an order of magnitude greater in animal studies vs human studies. So a lot of times you combine both problems and you don’t know if the study was invalid because humans/mice are different, and/or there was data errors in these studies.
It would be interesting to actually have a human study on physically active people to see the amount of bcaa in a persons blook taking just protein, protien/bcaa and natural diet to see how they compare and if they are competing with other hormones or precoursers.
mr_meanor
New Member
I don't really agree with the articles. Obviously humans are not mice, but I found it interesting and encouraging BCAAs are being studied in such depth. Then point of the article is that an overload of BCAAs is what is being considered unhealthy not the high protien intake, is kinda what I took away from it.
mp46
New Member
I studied BCAAs in-depth years back when they first started hitting the market, and the theory behind them is sound, instead of the body breaking down protien to get bcaa you’re providing it in a direct supplement. Since then EAAs have come on the market and I haven’t even hear of them till they were recommend. When I get a dozen hours with nothing to do then I’ll find some recent studies about both to see what’s changed in the bcaa market and why there’s now a transition to EAA.
I used to do this kind of studying for everything over the years, hundreds of hours, but I never consolidated the info and recorded it, I just kept it in my head. A few brain injuries later and I don’t remember so we’ll what I studied years ago.
I used to do this kind of studying for everything over the years, hundreds of hours, but I never consolidated the info and recorded it, I just kept it in my head. A few brain injuries later and I don’t remember so we’ll what I studied years ago.
I would like to see a relative study that correlated doses between rodents and humans.
It's just not the same with animals and rodents, they are either given much more than a human would take in relation.
It's just not the same with animals and rodents, they are either given much more than a human would take in relation.
T-Lab
New Member
Did you read this. It says WITHOUT the other essential aminos. Which you would be getting in the rest of your diet. Secondly it says it lead to overeating and they became obese. Ever seen an obese person in a bodybuilding competition? No? Ok then.
mr_meanor
New Member
Why would I not have read this? And no I have not ever seen a fat body builder but I have seen lots of fat asses chugging energy drinkS full of BCAAs. I've also seen alot of idiots at the gym who drink 10+ protien shakes a day thinking it is good for them (this is unhealthy for reasons unrelated to this article).
It also says "other essential nutrients:"
"Now, research in mice goes even further, suggesting that a diet that is high in BCCA-containing protein but relatively low in other essential nutrients can have many negative effects on long-term health and lifespan."
How in the hell is a study on BCAAs NOT relevant to bodybuilding is the question I would ask. And yes I read the article several times, did u read this thread??
People read this and get mad thinking I'm telling them their protien shakes are unhealthy, lmao, I just found a cool relative article and shared it. The study is on mice for fucks sake, it is just a study, nothing right or wrong about it people.
CrispyRockClimber
New Member
I dont think I’ve ever met a person that drinks ten protein shakes a day.
My dad and I both had our jaws wired shut not to far a part one motorcycle accident another brassknucks. We both would get to 6-7 no more than 8 and ensures/protein shakes and your body was was begging for real food aka meats and leafy greens. Some chilli blended with some grilled burgers and and a bag of spinach was the only thing to relieve that hunger.
mr_meanor
New Member
FitnessVolt.com: Bodybuilder Gets Emergency Surgery After Eating Too Much Protein.
https://fitnessvolt.com/bodybuilder-emergency-surgery-protein/
https://fitnessvolt.com/bodybuilder-emergency-surgery-protein/
T-Lab
New Member
Never in my life have I heard of anyone drinking 10 or more protein shakes in a day. Nor have I ever seen a skinny person start drinking BCAAs, and then get fat because their hunger increased. The people you see drinking those were already fat to begin with. If you are talking about a rodent in a lab, it is not on a diet consciously trying to lose weight. All iit knowsis hunger equals eat. No person serious about weight loss is going to drink BCAAs and then go home and eat 5000 cal because they are a little hungrier from it.
I dunno we are on a steroid forum everyone here is popping drugs left right and center i doubt protein shake can compare to that we d know by now its been studied for a couple years and results have always been unconclusive
so if youre juicing its at worst a drop of water into an ocean of long term side effects
And if youre natty and eating healthy and doing sports and drinking a protein shake you can chill out those mice studies are worthless
so if youre juicing its at worst a drop of water into an ocean of long term side effects
And if youre natty and eating healthy and doing sports and drinking a protein shake you can chill out those mice studies are worthless
And vice versa !
Mice are accustomed to eating JUNK and NOT protein rich foods and bc mice have several different hepatic pathways than humans, this type of data must be repeated in higher animals to have any validity outside of rodents
All that being said the notion BCAA offer an exclusive benefit above and beyond reasonable whey or casein supplementation in the anabolic process is what advertising is all about.
EVERYTHING IN MODERATION.
Jim
Really guys all supplements amount to a drop in the ocean when compared to PEDs, and is why many pro athletes are caught using. or do almost anything to disguise the use of the latter.
It’s an apples to elephant comparison and since few on this forum are involved in competitive sports, while interesting on a contextual basis discussions of this nature have limited relevance on forums such as Meso IMO
Jim
It’s an apples to elephant comparison and since few on this forum are involved in competitive sports, while interesting on a contextual basis discussions of this nature have limited relevance on forums such as Meso IMO
Jim
