MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Proviron
- Thread starter JBF
- Start date
Not necessary, but nice. Supports the action of other andros, stimulates sexual feelings, as well as resists aromatization (but not to the extent of anti-estros like a-dex.)JBF said:
IMHO anyway.
Solo
jasthace
New Member
My contribution,http://www.eurobolic.com/index.php?main_page=proviron
Sorry I did'nt include any personal ramblings or tips from experiance,because I have'nt used it.Looks like it stops aromitisation and is not a estrogen receptor blocker like nolvadex
Sorry I did'nt include any personal ramblings or tips from experiance,because I have'nt used it.Looks like it stops aromitisation and is not a estrogen receptor blocker like nolvadex
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proviron in normal doses of say 100mg/day has no demonstrated anti-estrogenic effect including no demonstrated anti-aromatase effect. this has been discussed to death. use it for a boner or use it if you think it will help you reduce shbg(just remember even if it does it results in no measurable change in free test) but forget it for any meaningful effect on estrogen levels. have some tamoxifen and/or arimidex on hand if estrogen concerns you.
as far as pct goes, it will not help you recover and may slow recovery down. i would recommed it for pct ONLY if you are having a difficult time with sexual side effects during recovery. If it were cheaper i would always have some around for the weekends!
jb
as far as pct goes, it will not help you recover and may slow recovery down. i would recommed it for pct ONLY if you are having a difficult time with sexual side effects during recovery. If it were cheaper i would always have some around for the weekends!
jb
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i would encourage everyone to ignore this article, there is very little there that even comes close to touching the actual world and talks mostly in some fantasy that the author must have put together from some surfing on the boards rather than actually doing any research. This is an example about the very worst in propagating untruths.
jb
jb
jasthace said:
Whether it's an anti-estro or not is a moot point & has been argued before, as JB points out. I should have added that it is a known means of combatting excess water retention (& here I speak from some experience). Perhaps that alone has given it the reputation of being a mild anti-aromatize.solo47 said:
You'd be cheating yourself to use it during PCT since Provi is still an androgen. But sometimes for the sake of "the old Adam" we've got to cheat to get it on properly (thank yew, James Brown). [See my thread on Cheating.] I have found that during the nolva-clomid period, sex drive is still pretty good, but nothing like it was on 750mg Test/wk. After the last nolva it lapses a bit until HPTA remembers its purpose.
Some people use Provi after their last Test shot for about 3 weeks until they begin the nolva-clomid recall to grim reality as a sort of mini-bridge.
Solo
jasthace
New Member
jboldman said:
OK big guy,now I want to see evidence,you talk like you ARE the authority,bring out the paper work,if you can.
And no cheap desperate ego attacts bro, just facts form studies.
Ego attacks? Have i offended you somehow? I was referring to the article you referenced that specifically states that proviron is an anti-aromatase and therefore nolvadex is not needed for the prevention and/or treatment of gynecomastia! I feel that it is irresponsible and negligent. We are not discussing the relative merits of a steroid and what works or does not work for different people, we are talking about a very serious medical complication that this article is proposing proviron to be effective in the prevention of to the exclusion of a known effective drug! I acknowledge that proviron can be great for a lagging sex life and that for some people it seems to work very well for hardness and ridding the body of excess water. I am even willing to admit that some think that using proviropn they do not need anti-e's. All of that is a far cry from categorically stating that this drug is an effective anti-e/anti-aromatase and will prevent/resolve gynecomastia! Unlike nolvadex there is not a single scientific study that presents any evidence of proviron's effectiveness combating gyno and i have not read a single study where it has been demonstrated to have anti-e effects.
My concern is that when people state on an open forum that proviron is an anti-e, readers will actually believe it and not have nolvadex on hand when needed and will suffer the consequences eg gynecomastia.
You say i am claiming to be the expert but i am not asserting that proviron has the aforementioned medicinal properties, the article you referenced did! How can i prove that it does not? To the best of my knowledge no one has ever proposed to study the anti-e effects of proviron, this might lead one to believe that there is no reason for such a study. It is hard to prove a negative whereas it is very easy to prove the opposite.
So, here is the simple task, go to medline and do a search on mesterolone, read each and every one and report back to us with the ones that demonstrate anti-e results or success in treating or preventing gyno. Please do not report back what all the gurus opinions are in all the on-line anabolic references and do not tell us how it is similar in structure to another drug which actually has anti-e properties. Just find us a single research study posted in a peer reviewed journal. I welcome it as it would shed some light on what has been a very confusing and obfuscated topic. I have tried to find this research without any luck.
I hope i do not sound like i would resort to "ego" attacks or name calling or any other low ball responses. for me it is very simple. if you state it as a fact be prepared to prove it, if it is an opinion you are welcome to it. Anecdotal information is important and useful but we have to be careful sorting it out from fact when the consequences are as serious as gyno.
Until we see that research, i would humbly suggest that readers have nolvadex or some other proven drug on hand in case the proviron they are using is not up to the task.
jb
My concern is that when people state on an open forum that proviron is an anti-e, readers will actually believe it and not have nolvadex on hand when needed and will suffer the consequences eg gynecomastia.
You say i am claiming to be the expert but i am not asserting that proviron has the aforementioned medicinal properties, the article you referenced did! How can i prove that it does not? To the best of my knowledge no one has ever proposed to study the anti-e effects of proviron, this might lead one to believe that there is no reason for such a study. It is hard to prove a negative whereas it is very easy to prove the opposite.
So, here is the simple task, go to medline and do a search on mesterolone, read each and every one and report back to us with the ones that demonstrate anti-e results or success in treating or preventing gyno. Please do not report back what all the gurus opinions are in all the on-line anabolic references and do not tell us how it is similar in structure to another drug which actually has anti-e properties. Just find us a single research study posted in a peer reviewed journal. I welcome it as it would shed some light on what has been a very confusing and obfuscated topic. I have tried to find this research without any luck.
I hope i do not sound like i would resort to "ego" attacks or name calling or any other low ball responses. for me it is very simple. if you state it as a fact be prepared to prove it, if it is an opinion you are welcome to it. Anecdotal information is important and useful but we have to be careful sorting it out from fact when the consequences are as serious as gyno.
Until we see that research, i would humbly suggest that readers have nolvadex or some other proven drug on hand in case the proviron they are using is not up to the task.
jb
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jasthace
New Member
Ok jboldman, you did'nt manage find found any information that supports your own views of the limited function of Proviron.Not even in the form of a web page.You only provided more of your own opinion.
Its just that there are alot of people using it for it's other reported effects,including antiaromistize and effects on SHBG helping to maximise effects of the anabolics and reporting to have a positive effect on hardness of physic.
Heres another interesting web page on Proviron,what do you say to this?
http://www.steroid-forever.com/proviron.htm
Its just that there are alot of people using it for it's other reported effects,including antiaromistize and effects on SHBG helping to maximise effects of the anabolics and reporting to have a positive effect on hardness of physic.
Heres another interesting web page on Proviron,what do you say to this?
http://www.steroid-forever.com/proviron.htm
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please reread my post. I am not interested in reading web pages or peoples opinions for or against on this issue unless they reference some research that supports the use of proviron for anti-aromatase or serm. I also never said anything for or against the shbg lowering effects. I simply stated that i have NEVER seen any legitimate research supporting the notion that proviron is an anti-aromatase. I am not interested in posting up web pages to support my view. I have tried unsuccessfully to find ANY references to this drug and anti-e effects in medline. And just because more than one person posts an unsupported statement on the internet does not make it a fact, it makes it an opinion.
my concern is this: the reference you posted stated as a fact that proviron was an anti-aromatase and those that used it could use it in place of nolvadex. If you do a search for tamoxifen and gynecomastia on medline you will find 62 references, if you do a similar search for proviron or mesterolone you will find zero, no references. All of the hype about proviron being an anti-estrogen stems from its similarity in some respects to other drugs that do have anti-e properties, a very bad assumption not founded in any kind of factual way. So when it comes to shbg lowering making your cycle more effective we can voice our opinions and let folks find out for themselves, some say it does wonders,others say it has no noticeable effect. When it comes to improving sex lives, there is some research that supports that and anecdotal evidence as well. These are issues that for most do not involve serious long term health implications. When we talk about telling folks to have proviron on hand for anti-e purposes we are talking about potential future surgical intervention to resolve gynecomastia, this is non-trivial and until i see some scientific proof that proviron does in fact act as a significant anti-aromatase or serm i will continue to warn readers to ignore any such advice and to always have nolvadex and/or other proven anti-a's and anti-e's on hand when using aas particularly those that aromatize. If they also want to take proviron, have at it, there very well may be some benefits. Just do not depend upon proviron as your anti-e!
I hope you understand that i am not trying to argue for the sake of arguing or that i am trying to impress anyone with my knowledge, i just can not stand by when such bad advice is given out as fact when at best it is not supported by research and at worst will result in tragic medical consequences.
jb
my concern is this: the reference you posted stated as a fact that proviron was an anti-aromatase and those that used it could use it in place of nolvadex. If you do a search for tamoxifen and gynecomastia on medline you will find 62 references, if you do a similar search for proviron or mesterolone you will find zero, no references. All of the hype about proviron being an anti-estrogen stems from its similarity in some respects to other drugs that do have anti-e properties, a very bad assumption not founded in any kind of factual way. So when it comes to shbg lowering making your cycle more effective we can voice our opinions and let folks find out for themselves, some say it does wonders,others say it has no noticeable effect. When it comes to improving sex lives, there is some research that supports that and anecdotal evidence as well. These are issues that for most do not involve serious long term health implications. When we talk about telling folks to have proviron on hand for anti-e purposes we are talking about potential future surgical intervention to resolve gynecomastia, this is non-trivial and until i see some scientific proof that proviron does in fact act as a significant anti-aromatase or serm i will continue to warn readers to ignore any such advice and to always have nolvadex and/or other proven anti-a's and anti-e's on hand when using aas particularly those that aromatize. If they also want to take proviron, have at it, there very well may be some benefits. Just do not depend upon proviron as your anti-e!
I hope you understand that i am not trying to argue for the sake of arguing or that i am trying to impress anyone with my knowledge, i just can not stand by when such bad advice is given out as fact when at best it is not supported by research and at worst will result in tragic medical consequences.
jb
jasthace
New Member
ok, sounds reasonable, fair enough
novicebb
New Member
Great for helping androgens bind to receptor sites more and is great for those that have used steriods for a number of years or even those that abuse the drugs. It is also a decent anti aromatase drug as well.
MANWHORE
Subscriber
I would probably never use it again with all the other things out there but it did make me very horny at 50mg/day .. very fast tooJBF said:
novicebb
New Member
Let me ask you guys this? Have anyone made Proviron into oral solution? If so what PEG was used-400 or 600? Would Cialis and Proviron mix be feasable?
jasthace
New Member
dvs33 said:Just like to say.Iv added one a day been on 4 days and ffs my sex drive is nuts ,My balls just feel like they constantly want to dump cum everywhere,Random wood is insane,I havent felt this good since puberty when I needed to wank or have sex 12 times a day.
As you were
I think we''ll all need this stuff one day!
Thanks for the "lowdown"
Will make a great fathersday present too!
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novicebb
New Member
So can proviron and cialis be mixed together with PEG 400 or Everclear in a solution of say- 10-30mg/ml of Proviron and 10-20mg/ml of Cialis and have it dissolve it completely
