Q for Dr. Scally regarding HPTA recovery...

[Mike Oxbig]

I agree. I need some new glasses!!!

Thanks for the reply. I STILL think I'm going to do a few weeks of Clomid treatment and then do another set of labs in March right before my next cycle just to be sure.

As wide of a range as "normal" is for something like TT I would still like to believe I'm at least somewhere in the 600s. If not, I'll at least have a definitive number I can reference as a baseline.

Yeah your in the same boat as me my baseline is/was 539 and I only got a couple years on you. We should be in the 600s baseline honestly, as that is the average at our age . We are just some old young fellas. I always thought you were older! Dont know why but you fooled me.

 

[TheGuy85]

Don't feel bad my TT was 539 b4 I ever touched anything anabolic at the age of 25. I blame my TT levels for how I started easily gaining body fat some where in my twenties (I am not or was ever obese or anything, but I used to be very skinny). I gotta really fucking work hard to keep fat off when not on AAS. I end up over training because I don't want to lighten up on my lifting while doing HIIT cardio 3x a week. Knocks my dick in the dirt when I am training natty. Not to mention it is hard to make strength gains while keeping fat off when training natty. I pretty much have to carry some flab to make strength gains natty. All the dieting in the world can't change genetics, I gotta work twice as hard as some people do. I bet if my TT level was even just 100-150 ng higher I would notice a huge difference over time. You see these old guys on TRT, their whole body changes in a years time and they achieve things they never could without TRT.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

I did 3 weeks of Clomid, roughly 30mg EOD and re-tested after 5 weeks of ceasing use.

I believe I still have SERMs in my system(LH is above the reference range, 9.2 to be exact) but my TT is only 287! FSH is 2.6 and E2 is 17. When my LH was 9.6 after my last cycle my TT was 1,351.

Fuck. I also have bloodwork tomorrow as part of a medical exam for a contingency job offer. Hopefully it doesn't raise too much suspicion.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Also, FWIW it's been 6 months since my last cycle. I really wasn't anticipating levels this low.

 

[TheGuy85]

Damn man that sucks. Where'd you get the clomid from? Not that it matters because I would have expected you to recover regardless in 6 months. Damn you going to jump on the trt ship? I better get some bloods a month after I finish pct, after his cycle.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

TRT is definitely a potential possibility at this point. The Clomid/adex was from purchasepeptides.

It raised my LH plenty so I don't fault the research supplier. It's almost as if my hypogonadism is primary instead of secondary, but my leydig cells responded very well to the LH during my last PCT so I'm not sure what's going on.

 

[TheGuy85]

Definitely keep us posted. I would definitely like to know what to do in case something like this happens to me. I don't really want TRT to be the only way out . You probably need to see an endocrinologist and get further blood work done.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Definitely keep us posted. I would definitely like to know what to do in case something like this happens to me. I don't really want TRT to be the only way out . You probably need to see an endocrinologist and get further blood work done.

I have zero issue with lifelong injections, my sole concern with TRT is potential fertility issues in the future. We'll see what happens.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Re-tested yesterday just to make sure the results weren't false negatives. FWIW, I'm still in the process of getting over the flu so perhaps that also contributed to a lower result.

TT- 386
LH- 8.4
FSH-2.2
E2-14.4

Good enough to at least rationalize jumping back on. I'll limit the cycle to 2 months and re-test 6 weeks after PCT.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

Leydig cells are not responding very well..

It could just be a time issue.

Have you considered doing pct for another month?

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Leydig cells are not responding very well..

It could just be a time issue.

Have you considered doing pct for another month?

I did 3 weeks of ClomidA-dex after the first set of labs. The timeline was

Labs 8 weeks after initial PCT came back at 518
I followed up shortly after with 3 weeks of Clomid/A-dex
5 weeks after that I got new labs that came back at 287
1 week later I re-tested and was at 386

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

Damn I'm sorry to hear that.

Best option for recovery IMO might be extended use of HCG.

Maybe 2000iu e4d for 4-5 weeks followed by a short SERM run.


Even if it doesn't work this will keep your TT levels pretty high.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

I'm really confused as to why your testes were responding to LH and then suddenly stopped months later?

I think if there is an answer dr scally is the only one who knows it.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Damn I'm sorry to hear that.

Best option for recovery IMO might be extended use of HCG.

Maybe 2000iu e4d for 4-5 weeks followed by a short SERM run.


Even if it doesn't work this will keep your TT levels pretty high.

I already jumped back on about a week ago.

I'm really confused as to why your testes were responding to LH and then suddenly stopped months later?

I think if there is an answer dr scally is the only one who knows it.

Beats the hell out of me.

On 6/26/13 after PCT from my first cycle I was at

TT: 1,352
LH: 9.6
FSH: 5.6
E2: 82

Then on 3/18/14 after PCT from my second cycle I was at

TT: 287
LH: 9.2
FSH: 2.6
E2: 17

Doesn't make sense to me. Primary hypogonadism shouldn't be a concern considering how well my leydig cells were responding last June, yet despite an LH above the reference range I was still hypogonadal.

Granted, TT count can vary a good bit from day to day depending on the time of the last pulse, etc. but that's a disparity of nearly 500%. It really can't be rationalized by outside factors.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

Did you use my friend deca last cycle?

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

If you used my friend deca then he is probably playing tricks on your balls. He likes to do that.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

I don't use Nandrolone and won't unless I stay on permanently.

It was just a standard test e/tren e cycle. Moreover, I even ran 2,000 iu of hCG EOD for 20 days immediately proceeding my last injection.

 

[Burrr]

SERMs do raise E2. Where did you get the idea they do not?

Question from early in this thread.....
Does the serm directly increase E2, or is it just the elevated test being aromatized?

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

Elevated test being aromatized

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

Shit this is way out of the scope of my knowledge hopefully after your next pct things will return to normal.