Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic

[Ghoul]

Could this be causing desensitisation to rHGH more so than very high injection frequency?

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/87/8/3573/2846550

Yes.

HGH is the only peptide / protein drug routinely monitored for immunogenicity at the clinic level. There's a blood test available for it.

One of the ways it's dealt with is switching brands, to see if antibody levels go down and the HGH starts working again. Since all HGH is somatropin, the only difference between brands are the excipient ingredients in the formulation, which mainly serve to minimize aggregation to prevent immunogenicity.

Here are children who lost response to HGH from immunogenicity and the methods used to try and fix it. "Inhibition" is how much HGH effectiveness was reduced.



Here's a measure of the antibodies produced by different pharma formulations, most of which can be attributed to aggregates.



UGL is certainly worse. No anti-aggregate measures are taken (slightly wrong PH alone can cause aggregation to get 10x worse). No immunogenicity tests are conducted. "I've never noticed immunogenicity". Would you notice a 15-20% drop in effectiveness over a year?

Filtering reduces immunogenicity, ensures sterility, prevents particulates like common glass delamination and stopper rubber from getting into your body and eventually your organs where they accumulate, causing micro embolisms. It's all upside.

 

[annih]

What dose are you currently taking? Vials can hold 3ml.

....

Thanks Ghoul.

I am taking 2.5mg, only a small amount. My wife is taking 5mg. So I'd need to put 5ml of BAC water in for her schedule and 10ml for what I take. I know mine is on the outlier of GLP usage, but for me its enough, but hers is a typical dose.

Really useful regarding filtering. I was filtering other stuff, hadn't (for some reason) occurred to me to do the peptides too!

 

[Ghoul]

Thanks Ghoul.

I am taking 2.5mg, only a small amount. My wife is taking 5mg. So I'd need to put 5ml of BAC water in for her schedule and 10ml for what I take. I know mine is on the outlier of GLP usage, but for me its enough, but hers is a typical dose.

Really useful regarding filtering. I was filtering other stuff, hadn't (for some reason) occurred to me to do the peptides too!

You can't use the same filters as those for oils .

Use .22um PES 13mm filters, without prefilter.

Sterile 0.2 μm PES Syringe Filters

Hydrophilic PES syringe filters with single or double-layer membrane. Pore sizes of 0.2μm. Diameter of 13mm/25mm/33mm with Luer lock. Sterile individually packed.

shop.cobetter.com

Inject filtered peptide into particle free certified vials like Ultra Spec.

Ultra Spec Sterile 5ml (20mm neck) Clear Sealed Glass Vial, Qty 1

5ml clear sealed sterile glass vials (Silver seal, single). Shop at Med Lab SUpply for high quality medical and lab glass!

www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com

 

[annih]

@Ghoul - read my mind, was going to ask what filters you'd recommend. Thank you. Any reason for no pre-filter?

 

[Excel.exe]

@Ghoul - read my mind, was going to ask what filters you'd recommend. Thank you. Any reason for no pre-filter?

same.

 

[Excel.exe]

for anyone else wondering what they should use for oils

PTFE 0.22micron 33mm, 20ml syringes hand, 50ml for caulking gun

 

[Wrangel7]

Yes.

HGH is the only peptide / protein drug routinely monitored for immunogenicity at the clinic level. There's a blood test available for it.

One of the ways it's dealt with is switching brands, to see if antibody levels go down and the HGH starts working again. Since all HGH is somatropin, the only difference between brands are the excipient ingredients in the formulation, which mainly serve to minimize aggregation to prevent immunogenicity.

Here are children who lost response to HGH from immunogenicity and the methods used to try and fix it. "Inhibition" is how much HGH effectiveness was reduced.

View attachment 316328

Here's a measure of the antibodies produced by different pharma formulations, most of which can be attributed to aggregates.

View attachment 316329

UGL is certainly worse. No anti-aggregate measures are taken (slightly wrong PH alone can cause aggregation to get 10x worse). No immunogenicity tests are conducted. "I've never noticed immunogenicity". Would you notice a 15-20% drop in effectiveness over a year?

Filtering reduces immunogenicity, ensures sterility, prevents particulates like common glass delamination and stopper rubber from getting into your body and eventually your organs where they accumulate, causing micro embolisms. It's all upside.

Thank you!

Here are my relatively low IGF-1 levels after using about 90iu/day of QSC HGH.

Somatomedin-C (IGF-1) ↑ 977.5 ng/mL 134.0 - 450.0 Serum

Will taking a break help enough if it's this bad, and how long before I can restart with the most effectiveness returned? I'm assuming this can only be figured out after testing.

I've also reduced my frequency, as indicated by the study I sent, before coming off for a little while.

Would you suggest I do RIA for anti-HGH antibody detection? Is ELISA fine? Functional IGF-1 Response Test? Neutralizing Antibody Test? Or is RIA pretty much the only quality go-to?

How long do anti-HGH antibodies persist? I'm assuming my natural production has probably tanked, too.

Would switching brands from QSC temporarily help, or would it have to be a permanent switch? Would it have to be a switch to a pharma brand, or something like SSA would work? Do we know anything about the differences in excipients and aggregation properties between QSC and SSA rHGH?

What about secretagogues for a while?

Do we know anything about the doses taken in this study? Could you please link the study?

Thanks again, Ghoul; so much value each time interacting with you!

 

[bananafeet]

What do you notice from adding kisspeptin. Been reading up on it seems promising

I think it adds mental drive and more sex drive? I'm just as bad as I was on tren (harassing my wife for sex).

I added it after asking Tracy for something for NAFLD, apparently it has been shown in rats to help with that.

It's hard to know if that's what's doing it or just an increase in general fitness.

I am also on semaglutide 1mg twice per week and I continue to lose weight quite rapidly (from QSC also).

It probably would help to add I am on TRT because I have primary hypogonadism, I never touched exogenous androgens before starting TRT.

 

[zagreus]

You can't use the same filters as those for oils .

Use .22um PES 13mm filters, without prefilter.

Sterile 0.2 μm PES Syringe Filters

Hydrophilic PES syringe filters with single or double-layer membrane. Pore sizes of 0.2μm. Diameter of 13mm/25mm/33mm with Luer lock. Sterile individually packed.

shop.cobetter.com

Inject filtered peptide into particle free certified vials like Ultra Spec.

Ultra Spec Sterile 5ml (20mm neck) Clear Sealed Glass Vial, Qty 1

5ml clear sealed sterile glass vials (Silver seal, single). Shop at Med Lab SUpply for high quality medical and lab glass!

www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

What is the purpose of filtering into the separate vial, if filtering already occurs at injection time?

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Thank you!

Here are my relatively low IGF-1 levels after using about 90iu/day of QSC HGH.

Somatomedin-C (IGF-1) ↑ 977.5 ng/mL 134.0 - 450.0 Serum

Will taking a break help enough if it's this bad, and how long before I can restart with the most effectiveness returned? I'm assuming this can only be figured out after testing.

I've also reduced my frequency, as indicated by the study I sent, before coming off for a little while.

Would you suggest I do RIA for anti-HGH antibody detection? Is ELISA fine? Functional IGF-1 Response Test? Neutralizing Antibody Test? Or is RIA pretty much the only quality go-to?

How long do anti-HGH antibodies persist? I'm assuming my natural production has probably tanked, too.

Would switching brands from QSC temporarily help, or would it have to be a permanent switch? Would it have to be a switch to a pharma brand, or something like SSA would work? Do we know anything about the differences in excipients and aggregation properties between QSC and SSA rHGH?

What about secretagogues for a while?

Do we know anything about the doses taken in this study? Could you please link the study?

Thanks again, Ghoul; so much value each time interacting with you!

90iu per day? Is this correct?

 

[Trenbolonetax]

I think it adds mental drive and more sex drive? I'm just as bad as I was on tren (harassing my wife for sex).

I added it after asking Tracy for something for NAFLD, apparently it has been shown in rats to help with that.

It's hard to know if that's what's doing it or just an increase in general fitness.

I am also on semaglutide 1mg twice per week and I continue to lose weight quite rapidly (from QSC also).

It probably would help to add I am on TRT because I have primary hypogonadism, I never touched exogenous androgens before starting TRT.

Reta obliterates NAFLD. Check out the trials

 

[Wrangel7]

90iu per day? Is this correct?

Yep. Super desensitised. Over 2 vials of 36 iu a day from QSC.

 

[bananafeet]

Reta obliterates NAFLD. Check out the trials

Yeah mate I've got two kits from Tracy in the fridge. I just want to keep them as a back up option in case massive weight loss doesn't work.

Currently I'm down 26kg (136kg to 110kg). Hoping for another 20 odd kg. If that doesn't kill it off I'll go the reta. I've got another abdomen scan booked in 6 months time. Given it was only a mildly fat infiltrated liver I'm hoping semaglutide induced weightloss will be enough.

But apparently fatty liver can be a very stubborn disease. It's great we now have an option at least that burns fat right at the liver.

 

[DinoBB76]

Yep. Super desensitised. Over 2 vials of 36 iu a day from QSC.

what effects did you have with 90 units? how did you divide them?

it seems that your body cannot recognize the external hormone and I discarded it

 

[SpaceGhost]

It's not just the titties.. Stuff like calling himself a "man/women" and calling it peptide biz.. maybe I'm just too paranoid

Glad it's not just me feeling off about that message. It's like when a show comes back after they had to replace one of the characters with a new actor. Taking a wait and see approach on this one.

 

[malomkarom]

Yep. Super desensitised. Over 2 vials of 36 iu a day from QSC.

HOLLY FUCK
How many decades of GH does that?

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Yep. Super desensitised. Over 2 vials of 36 iu a day from QSC.

Are you also desensitized to the insulin resistance from GH?

 

[Wrangel7]

Well, I grew like crazy (including hands, feet and probably nose but not as much — mainly hands from what friends have noticed, although I'm not sure how much was water retention) for a while, and my HRV dropped, and RHR increased as expected. Then HRV & RHR stopped moving negatively and started recovering when it dumped sub 20ms. Then progress kinda slowed. I tested around this time. It's not as if my IGF-1 levels are natty; just not "worthy" of the dosages used.

Regarding injection frequency, I was aiming for every 4-5 hours, excluding sleep/work. More or less even doses other than after training with a slightly increased dose.

The frequency was to maximise lipolysis benefit to gain more aggressively; however, in hindsight, this was not the best decision.

Surprisingly, I'm not insulin resistant. Just over 4 mmol/l blood glucose level about 2 hours postprandial. HbA1c of just over 39 mmol/mol. No exogenous insulin use. No metformin (tried it but stopped it).

what effects did you have with 90 units? how did you divide them?

it seems that your body cannot recognize the external hormone and I discarded it

Are you also desensitized to the insulin resistance from GH?

 

[Wrangel7]

HOLLY FUCK
How many decades of GH does that?

Less than one if you're sufficiently crazy/desperate/stupid.

 

[nullandvoid]

Well, I grew like crazy (including hands, feet and probably nose but not as much — mainly hands from what friends have noticed, although I'm not sure how much was water retention) for a while, and my HRV dropped, and RHR increased as expected. Then HRV & RHR stopped moving negatively and started recovering when it dumped sub 20ms. Then progress kinda slowed. I tested around this time. It's not as if my IGF-1 levels are natty; just not "worthy" of the dosages used.

Regarding injection frequency, I was aiming for every 4-5 hours, excluding sleep/work. More or less even doses other than after training with a slightly increased dose.

The frequency was to maximise lipolysis benefit to gain more aggressively; however, in hindsight, this was not the best decision.

Surprisingly, I'm not insulin resistant. Just over 4 mmol/l blood glucose level about 2 hours postprandial. HbA1c of just over 39 mmol/mol. No exogenous insulin use. No metformin (tried it but stopped it).

I had this, too, unfortunately, particularly in wrists, which created a permanent tightness. Sometimes I'll twist my hands a certain way, and they'll kind of catch and hurt a bit. Feet also grew. I was getting pissed with the brand of shoes I buy and kept sending them back because they were too tight thinking they were manufactured poorly. Then I measured my feet and thought "wtf?" A full size. I never really got any benefits, just numbness in hands and water retention, but kept the faith over a number of years. No sleep improvement or anything. I finally just gave it up. Disappointing.