AlexDavis43
Member
Hi @apiekar, just to add some information. Most people just reconstitute with BAC water and inject regularly (myself included). It's fine. You don't have to get crazy complicated with it.
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Hi @apiekar, just to add some information. Most people just reconstitute with BAC water and inject regularly (myself included). It's fine. You don't have to get crazy complicated with it.
bigMoJo
Member
@AlexDavis43
Bro, I respect your views and your no-nonsense approach to many subjects. At times, I follow suggestions from your example. I also respect that you simply "reconstitute with BAC water and inject." Although, I'm reading-in to your post as a discouragement against a higher health/safety process.
Of course, most "users" have traditionally approached injections as you do. And, there hasn't been sizeable reporting of "negative consequences" doing so. However, most recently—with the latest science-backed data—filtering is seen by some as a "best practice," myself included.
Currently, the odds of a "mutated aggregate" turning a person into a mongoloid version of Simple Jack are extremely low. Having said that, I'm not willing to take the risk—for a few dollars worth of additional equipment, and little more time prepping injections. Hospitals do it... why not me?
Throughout the years, automobile manufacturers have added seat belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes, crumple zones, protection beams... and the list keeps growing. Now, we have early detection, automatic braking, etc. Safety keeps improving.
What I'm getting at is, if you want to tell someone the way you do things... no problem. At least also tell them that "filtering" and all this "additional safety" is precisely that.
As Dirt would say... Peace brother!
AlexDavis43
Member
More power to ya! It’s cool that people are learning about filtration.
Currently, who knows where the balance on this is between harm reduction or just added inconvenience (or worse). [rhetorical]
This particular example seems like a prolonged modafinil-fueled ChatGPT crusade that started with GLP1s losing efficacy if you take a break (reddit link), tesa PIP, then with more modafinil and cherry picking articles, went on to aggregates, mad cow disease, immunity to endogenous hGH and GLP1, and the grand finale:
“These basic facts are all widely accepted by the most prestigious scientists in the world,” and “anyone who thinks otherwise has not done their due diligence [low IQ knuckle draggers]” xD
I don't discourage it because we don't have the data. Eg, Jano tests before filtering, immediately after, and a later time point. Etc.
I still think it's cool that people are learning about filtration.
AlexDavis43
Member
Hospitals do what? Wipe vials and injection site with alcohol, sure. Filter peptides? What hospital do you go to
FastBun
Member
I think we went overboard on filtration… vial spiking… peptide filtering…long time ago….bruv I use to re use 18g needles… never had anything happen.. I think it’s the Reddit crowd + soccer moms…
AlexDavis43
Member
The typical rebuttal is something like "just cuz you didn't lose an ass cheek doesn't mean everything is fine" or "you can't feel microplastics in your lungs" or whatever.
I don't really care where anyone falls on the spectrum of bubble boy to knuckle dragger. Provide information without fear mongering and let them make their own decision. Some people think everyone should have the same risk tolerance as them. I disagree with that.
FastBun
Member
I agree… you know how many of my friends still have their ass cheeks intact??? All of them… we never got infections from gh or aas… ffs it’s common knowledge some sources weren’t even filtering gear and were pretty big and never had issues…
Now… do I agree with sources using flow hoods… autoclaves… filtering gear… yes because we’ve moved on past those times…. But some stuff is just too much…
BamaCrazy
Member
I agree. Now they are talking about filtering non-generic medications you have a prescription for on another thread. I’m over here trying to figure out how to inject that Mounjaro pen through a filter before use.
The forum has been hijacked by the GLP loony tunes.
FastBun
Member
lol filtering prescription medication??? lol that’s a new one…
I'll drink to that. Time to have first annual Meso convention - bring BBs and KGs together (although I don't care for those labels) at least for a couple days.
Ghoul
Member
Go back in this forum far enough and the common belief was that boiling was sufficient to sterilize gear. Anything more was considered absurd. Then .45um filtration was sufficient, but any more was baseless fearmongering. Eventually .22um became the accepted standard. More recently the idea of testing for sterility was attacked as absurd.
In every case, the methods being proposed were merely bringing practices more closely in line, to what pharma does.
Someone will always present ideas ahead of the curve, and in each case it's the person arguing for raising standards that brings evidence to the table vs the mob who argue for the status quo resorting to insults and superficial retorts, .
If you truly believe there's "hijaaking" going on, then bring it to the attention of the management.
BamaCrazy
Member
Yea. I get it. You see yourself as a trailblazer. This is becoming the strangest steroid forum.
Ghoul
Member
Fear is your response Alex. You're inching closer to ad hominem insults in response to an argument being in presented in a measured way.
You've assured people not filtering UGL compounds is "fine". Since there's no way you can ensure that, and there is ample evidence that's not case in every instance, you're a vector for harm, not a proponent of "allowing people to make up their own minds".
You say it's "fine" because you don't. The "fear" you feel is because you're wedded to the way you do things, not because you've established aggregation is not more prevalent in UGL compounds or that immunogenicity isn't a possibility.
I also recommend you get your T levels checked, because your indirect, passive aggressive way of arguing definately skews to the lower end of the scale.
Just present your arguments that support unfiltered UGL gear is the better choice, that the "harm" is in wasting 50¢ on a filter and 2 minutes of time.
Ghoul
Member
No, I see myself as bringing the practices and widely recognized risks that anyone involved in the research, production, and regulation of peptides accept as something that must be carefully managed, while users of UGL peptides are largely oblivious to them.
What would it take for you to accept them as credible? There's no one analyzing UGL peptides to a fraction of the standard pharma produced drugs are, Yet these issues are the subject of thousands of research projects and more tellingly, an enormous investment by profit making entities to minimize them.
I'm not concerned with the "fear" you may feel from being presented with this knowledge. If you don't want to filter that's your business. You feel judged so you take offense, but you're mistaken, IDGAF if you take any steps to mitigate risk or decide it's not worth the trouble,I really don't care.
But at least, make a cogent argument as to why UGL peptides are immune to these risks, but pharma isn't, and why aggregate reduction strategies won't reduce them, but pharma employs them.
Ghoul
Member
Follow @AlexDavis43 's assurance that unfiltered peptides are just fine. Similar to the claims non-pharma BAC is "fine", dilution ratios should be whatever you deem convenient is "fine", and that presenting these well documented (sorry, I mean "cherry picked") risk factors and the simple steps to minimize them are intended to create "fear".
Or maybe research the topic yourself, and follow the lead of these "unqualified fear mongers"" who fail to see the wisdom of a low level lab assistant and his AA degree in farmyard biology who proclaims "It's fine" to not employ any steps to mitigate potential risks,
or these fools of the American Pharmacists Association publishing "fear mongering" articles like this:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
If you held a gun to the heads of any competent biotechnology scientist, and forced them to use a UGL produced peptide, but allowed them to employ whatever methods they wanted to reduce potential risk, I'm certain filtering and proper reconstitution with pharma BAC would be at the top of their list,
Or maybe research the topic yourself, and follow the lead of these "unqualified fear mongers"" who fail to see the wisdom of a low level lab assistant and his AA degree in farmyard biology who proclaims "It's fine" to not employ any steps to mitigate potential risks,
Protein Aggregates & Particles
Cambridge Healthtech Institute’s 3rd Annual Protein Aggregates & Particles Understanding Aggregation Kinetics to Effect Control and Minimise Immunogenicity Risks 3 - 4 November 2016 | EPIC SANA Lisboa Hotel | Lisboa PORTUGAL Aggregation impacts biopharmaceutical development at every stage from...
www.pegsummiteurope.com
or these fools of the American Pharmacists Association publishing "fear mongering" articles like this:
Expanding Bedside Filtration-A Powerful Tool to Protect Patients From Protein Aggregates - PubMed
Protein immunogenicity is intensively researched by academics, biopharmaceutical companies, and authorities as it can compromise the safety and efficacy of a biopharmaceutical drug. So far, the exact protein aggregate properties inducing immune responses are not known. Possible protein-related...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
If you held a gun to the heads of any competent biotechnology scientist, and forced them to use a UGL produced peptide, but allowed them to employ whatever methods they wanted to reduce potential risk, I'm certain filtering and proper reconstitution with pharma BAC would be at the top of their list,
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BamaCrazy
Member
Truthfully I don’t think it makes a difference for the average peptide user. The risk is minimal. But what I find strange is I’m a member of a few forums and I peek in on others as a non-member. There is no equivalent of a Ghoul on any other forum. Especially not a steroid forum. What drives a person to spend all the hours of their days and nights running around a forum answering everyone’s questions, troubleshooting and re-answering members responses? You made a comment when you returned from your suspension about wanting to accomplish your goals here. What are those goals? What are you really trying to do here on the forum? What drives a person to comment hundreds of times a day? What do you think would happen to everyone if you weren’t here to spread the filtering, immunogenicity, aggregation Gospel daily? Likely nothing at all. Nothing would happen. Lots of talk about solutions for non-existent problems.
I think there can be a balance, I would never for example filter directly every injection but filter once when I draw from the vials and I put my peptides in the cartridges of my pen it steals me maybe 10 more seconds but gives me more peace of mind.
Backfilling insulin syringe? No fucking way. You have more chances to get an infection from that practice then not filtering any peptide ever in your life xD
AlexDavis43
Member
ooh, spicy
Ghoul
Member
Is it ideal, no. However, what does that say about using ampules, the single most common method of delivering injectables in the world?
How long after the neck is broken until the syringe filling process is complete are the contents open to a non-sterile environment, a far wider opening than the barrel of 1ml insulin syringe?
Take a look at the back, plunger side, of your insulin syringe. Notice the entire barrel surface is exposed to a non-sterile environment except for where the thin ribs of the plunger make contact,
How about removing a syringe and luer lock needle from their respective packages? Those needle collar openings are significantly wider than the barrel opening of a 1ml syringe.
Syringe filter? Gaping opening there. None of these are opened and installed under the protection of a flow hood.
Or the widespread use of injector pens with non-sterilized cartridges, relying on a few clean sterility tests as guaranteed representation they're all sterile and the manufacturer just "forgot" to mention they're sterile.
So again, I'm not suggesting any of these things is "ideal", but giving oxygen to Mr "Not filtering is fine.", trust me bro, instead of a more reasonable "I personally don't see a risk sufficient to warrant the trouble, but it probably won't hurt" because backfilling presents some enormous risk doesn't hold water in light of the above "exposure risk",
That said, filtering once into a particle free vial is a huge improvement over not filtering at all., Or if you want added risk reduction of "bedside administration." simply using a single filter for each administration. Or use a luer coupler. But backfilling, done with some common sense precautions like not holding the plunger in your ass, for *me*, compared to the above practices doesn't seem to be a major source of additional risk.
Unlike metal, glass, and rubber particulates accumulating silently in your organs, or immunogenicity building over a year or more, an infection becomes almost immediately apparent and isn't some hidden threat, yet rarely have we seen backfilling, a common practice here on Meso, implicated in causing infections.
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Ghoul
Member
Wasted 3 minutes of perfectly good Modafinil time on that instead of dwelling on the threat of inhaling nanoparticles shedding from the interior paint...
