QSC Tren Ace Long Term Storage

[Ghoul]

butyl rubber has good Good Suitability for both tho

Good but not great. They will still leech chemicals into the oil, and break down like described in the original post.

Stoppers need a barrier coating to prevent chemicals from transferring into the liquid, especially when storing for years.

And then the next problem is the glass breaking down and ending up with this:





View: https://youtu.be/Ag0Yya6jK3E

 

[Sampei]

Good but not great. They will still leech chemicals into the oil, and break down like described in the original post.

Stoppers need a barrier coating to prevent chemicals from transferring into the liquid, especially when storing for years.

And then the next problem is the glass breaking down and ending up with this:

View attachment 296786



View: https://youtu.be/Ag0Yya6jK3E

most of these special stoppers and special vials are not accessible to private individuals, I believe the best solution is just keep raws stored and don't brew more then 1 and 1/2 year supply AT MAXIMUM.

 

[Astartes]

Not trying to argue, but visual indications of contamination are only present when things get *really* bad. It's become clear in recent years that all kinds of contaminants are ending up in injectables from the stopper, and believe it or not, the glass, which is not inert.

The 2024 study linked to below demonstrates science is just starting to get a handle on this problem, trying to establish a testing protocol and establishing limits of contaminants. There have been incidents of contaminants from stoppers being identified as the cause of serious, even deadly reactions.

What we do have are materials that avoid this problem entirely. Coated stoppers (mentioned in the report) and glass lined with a quartz like coating to prevent boron and other chemicals from migrating into the liquid, as well as the steady delamination that fills the vial with glass shards.

If this sounds like far out tinfoil hat stuff, I can assure you it's part of mainstream pharmaceutical science now.

About 60% of US hospitals enacted policies requiring filtration of injectables in intensive care units. Those that have, reduced stays by an average of 1 day, because of a reduction in inflammation, organ failure, and other previously unexplained complications.

I know this isn't of interest to everyone, but some are interested in minimizing as much potential harm as possible, especially knowing small reductions over a long period can make a big difference. Most homebrewers say they do it because they don't trust UGLs to make safe products, so this is a step in that direction.

View attachment 296766View attachment 296767

EXPLORING EXTRACTABLE AND LEACHABLE TESTING STRATEGIES FOR PARENTERALS - ONdrugDelivery

Antonio Scatena, Scott Toth and Kyle Chenevert discuss the regulatory landscape regarding extractables and leachables for parenteral drugs and provide guidance on implementing a successful testing approach. Techniques and results interpretation are discussed, emphasising practical advice for...

ondrugdelivery.com

Don’t doubt you are right.

Problem is we exist in an imperfect state. (In many ways.. heh) None of us have access to labs and true sterile environments. We do best we can and mitigate risk as much as possible.

I have (knock on wood) never caught even a wiff of infection in all my years of home brewing. No chemical poisoning… (Except Guaiacol… admittedly not my highest IQ period) Though I keep ample amounts of 6 different types of antibiotic on hand. (Kids end up using them for strep etc…lmao)

In the end, if they come out with reasonably priced and better products I’ll grab, until then I’m just not sweating the “what if’s” when the chances are minimal and I have taken precaution.

- Store in a cool dark place. Top up.
- Don’t use Guaiacol or EO for minimal
corrosion. (And other reasons with Guaiacol)
- Keep antibiotics in hand.
- Use sufficient BA. (Yes… more than .9 for
margin of error. I actually do 3-3.5)
- Visually inspect each vial.
- Use 10ml Vials (To avoid beating the hell out of
stoppers as much as possible.)

FIDO (Forget It and Drive On)

 

[Ghoul]

Don’t doubt you are right.

Problem is we exist in an imperfect state. (In many ways.. heh) None of us have access to labs and true sterile environments. We do best we can and mitigate risk as much as possible.

I have (knock on wood) never caught even a wiff of infection in all my years of home brewing. Though I keep ample amounts of 6 different types of antibiotic on hand. (Kids end up using them lmao)

In the end, if they come out with reasonably priced and better products I’ll grab, until then I’m just not sweating the “what if’s” when the chances are minimal and I have taken precaution.

Store in a cool dark place. Top up. Don’t use Guaiacol or EO for minimal corrosion. (And other reasons with Guaiacol) Keep antibiotics in hand. Visually inspect each vial. Use 10ml to avoid beating the hell out of stoppers as much as possible.

FIDO (Forget It and Drive On)

So "mitigate risk" but your advice is to not use a $1.50 stopper to mitigate the risk of butyl rubber chemicals contaminating a compound being injected. along with minimizing coring particles?

Is that because a $1.50 breakdown resistant stopper is a step out of reach, or because you can't "feel" the symptoms of either, the same way you're sure you're not injecting bacteria and it's not just getting taken care of by your immune system before becoming symptomatic?

Just trying to follow the logic here. I can't feel anything when consuming food drenched in pesticides, doesn't mean I'm not going to wash vegetables before eating.

Is it the underlying science you doubt?

I mean, do whatever you want, but you seem to be casting doubt on whether minimizing this risk is possible or even exists.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Use sufficient BA. (Yes… more than .9 for
margin of error. I actually do 3-3.5)

I like 1.2-1.5%

 

[Astartes]

So "mitigate risk" but your advice is to not use a $1.50 stopper to mitigate the risk of butyl rubber chemicals contaminating a compound being injecting. along with minimizing coring particles?

Is that because a $1.50 breakdown resistant stopper is a step out of reach, or because you can't "feel" the symptoms of either, the same way you're sure you're not injecting bacteria and it's not just getting taken care of by your immune system before becoming symptomatic?

Just trying to follow the logic here. I can't feel anything when consuming food drenched in pesticides, doesn't mean I'm not going to wash vegetables before eating.

Is it the underlying science you doubt?

I mean, do whatever you want, but you seem to be casting doubt on whether minimizing this risk is possible or even exists.

Lmao… Not saying that at all.

I don’t know anything about the stopper you are calling out, so I’d have to research. (Certainly will) Of course I’d use something substantially better. If reasonably better and available.

Just cannot comment because I’m uneducated.

Now simmer down sir. Drink some decaf and let the rest of us lunk heads come up to speed.