MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Questions about Juicing at 18

W

weekendwarrior

New Member
Hey everyone, in case you fell for the clickbait title and came here to flame on another one of "those" threads, i'm sorry to let you know this isn't going to be one. I have been researching steroids for a while purely out of curiosity for the compound (i'm interested in this kind of stuff). I do not plan on using it until my early 30's (at least) as I am not a bodybuilder, and work out purely for muscle endurance (and strength), and do a lot of cardio (I'm training for MARSOC). Im currently 18, and just out of curiosity...
Why shouldn't steroids be used by younger athletes (x-mid 20's)? I haven't seen any studies (as expected) of increased risk or additional side effects of steroids on younger users. The only differences I can think of would be younger user's additional/peak output of test, possibly open epiphyseal plates, their possibly underdeveloped HPTA+endocrine system (most likely fully developed by 18-20), and maturity level. Adittionaly, growth plates may be open in younger users, but to my knowledge their is weak/stark evidence at best that steroids cause closure in epiphyseal plates, and it seems most of it is theoretical, based off of estrogen's increased concentration after using an anabolic compound.
As for producing test at "peak" levels--- everyone produces differing amounts of test. Their are some people in their 40's who still produce more endegenous test than some 17 year olds. I cannot see how this would be an issue at all, even if someone with expetionally high endegenous test production at 19 decided to run a cycle.
I realize estrogen aids in the closure of epiphyseal plates, and that estrogen is produced through aromatization of test and AAS to induce a homeostatic hormonal enviroment, but couldn't the solution for the whole "stunted growth" debate be as easy as using a non aromatizing compound or consuming an aromatase inhibitor like tamoxifen on cycle? A reduction/halt of estrogen production would shurely negate that argument.
I know everyone reacts differently to compunds (although most usually follow pradictable effects of use, so the notion that everyone reacts "differently" is usually bloated to the point it is no longer factual. Their will always be outliers, those who's tolerance/effects from a drug vary markedly from the group. However, under the assumption that everyone reacts differently from a substance, drugs from amoxacillan to adderall would be dodgy at best and precarious at worst. So when the statement "everone reacts diffrently to compunds" is stated, keep in mind it is most likely a neglible difference.), but it seems a substancial proportion of the overall amount of users that end up suffering from hypogonadism from steroids,as well as other side effects such as permanent impotency, etc, are young. When recounting their cycles, many ran either; extremely long and/or heavy cycles, or didn't utilize a proper pct regimen if they used one at all (I've seen some scary posts where people ask which otc herbal "pct" shit they should take, not even knowing what clomid is :/). Anyway, those side effects (hypogonadism, impotency, the other permanent hormone related shit, etc) seem to be heavily attributed to young users. Is this just a lack of knowledge thing or an actual biological occurrence in younger users that cuases these effects?
The final question is maturity. I can see this being an issue, but this is an individualistic thing rather than an encompassing issue. I honestly don't think this should even be apart of one's consideration as its something for the user to decide for themselves.

If anyone's managed to make it this far I just want to say thanks. Any answers are appreciated however please try to keep it more on the scientific side rather than the bioscience side. Sources/links to any studies would be awesome. Thanks again and maybe any answers will help clear up some stuff for other young guys who are thinking about using gear.

Edit-sorry for any spelling issues-typing this on mobile.
 
the thing is at that age you dont really to use AAS almost all the gains you get from steroids at that age can be made naturally. you havent even developed your man strength yet. wait til your in your late 20's at the earliest you will be glad you did.
 
also take a look at the ufc for example, a lot of athletes in their mid 20's use steroids those guys were allowed to take "therapeutic doses" of testosterone for a long time and the repealed that and now everyone is getting popped.
 
weekendwarrior said:
Hey everyone, in case you fell for the clickbait title and came here to flame on another one of "those" threads, i'm sorry to let you know this isn't going to be one. I have been researching steroids for a while purely out of curiosity for the compound (i'm interested in this kind of stuff). I do not plan on using it until my early 30's (at least) as I am not a bodybuilder, and work out purely for muscle endurance (and strength), and do a lot of cardio (I'm training for MARSOC). Im currently 18, and just out of curiosity...
Why shouldn't steroids be used by younger athletes (x-mid 20's)? I haven't seen any studies (as expected) of increased risk or additional side effects of steroids on younger users. The only differences I can think of would be younger user's additional/peak output of test, possibly open epiphyseal plates, their possibly underdeveloped HPTA+endocrine system (most likely fully developed by 18-20), and maturity level. Adittionaly, growth plates may be open in younger users, but to my knowledge their is weak/stark evidence at best that steroids cause closure in epiphyseal plates, and it seems most of it is theoretical, based off of estrogen's increased concentration after using an anabolic compound.
As for producing test at "peak" levels--- everyone produces differing amounts of test. Their are some people in their 40's who still produce more endegenous test than some 17 year olds. I cannot see how this would be an issue at all, even if someone with expetionally high endegenous test production at 19 decided to run a cycle.
I realize estrogen aids in the closure of epiphyseal plates, and that estrogen is produced through aromatization of test and AAS to induce a homeostatic hormonal enviroment, but couldn't the solution for the whole "stunted growth" debate be as easy as using a non aromatizing compound or consuming an aromatase inhibitor like tamoxifen on cycle? A reduction/halt of estrogen production would shurely negate that argument.
I know everyone reacts differently to compunds (although most usually follow pradictable effects of use, so the notion that everyone reacts "differently" is usually bloated to the point it is no longer factual. Their will always be outliers, those who's tolerance/effects from a drug vary markedly from the group. However, under the assumption that everyone reacts differently from a substance, drugs from amoxacillan to adderall would be dodgy at best and precarious at worst. So when the statement "everone reacts diffrently to compunds" is stated, keep in mind it is most likely a neglible difference.), but it seems a substancial proportion of the overall amount of users that end up suffering from hypogonadism from steroids,as well as other side effects such as permanent impotency, etc, are young. When recounting their cycles, many ran either; extremely long and/or heavy cycles, or didn't utilize a proper pct regimen if they used one at all (I've seen some scary posts where people ask which otc herbal "pct" shit they should take, not even knowing what clomid is :/). Anyway, those side effects (hypogonadism, impotency, the other permanent hormone related shit, etc) seem to be heavily attributed to young users. Is this just a lack of knowledge thing or an actual biological occurrence in younger users that cuases these effects?
The final question is maturity. I can see this being an issue, but this is an individualistic thing rather than an encompassing issue. I honestly don't think this should even be apart of one's consideration as its something for the user to decide for themselves.

If anyone's managed to make it this far I just want to say thanks. Any answers are appreciated however please try to keep it more on the scientific side rather than the bioscience side. Sources/links to any studies would be awesome. Thanks again and maybe any answers will help clear up some stuff for other young guys who are thinking about using gear.

Edit-sorry for any spelling issues-typing this on mobile.
Click to expand...

Damn! I came here to tell you to do it. What the hell are you waiting for? All the pros started at like 15 y/o. Your fucking behind bro. Better catch up and throw in some Tren and Deca on your first cycle. Maybe run it for like 30 weeks. I'll put together a cycle plan for you...brb
 
Thanks but let me reiterate I'm not trying to run a cycle. I'm simply trying to get scientific based answers for the questions above. I'm completely satisfied with my natty test levels as they are-- I used to make great gains when I lifted seriously (benched 285 begging sophomore year of hs).
 
mkulltra58 said:
Damn! I came here to tell you to do it. What the hell are you waiting for? All the pros started at like 15 y/o. Your fucking behind bro. Better catch up and throw in some Tren and Deca on your first cycle. Maybe run it for like 30 weeks. I'll put together a cycle plan for you...brb
Click to expand...

Don't forget winny lol. And since those are all weak non aromatizing shit might as well spend the money on more gear and run it for 6 months instead of a pct
 
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weekendwarrior said:
Thanks but let me reiterate I'm not trying to run a cycle. I'm simply trying to get scientific based answers for the questions above. I'm completely satisfied with my natty test levels as they are-- I used to make great gains when I lifted seriously (benched 285 begging sophomore year of hs).
Click to expand...

It's a little dated but I thought there was some interesting info in it:

http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-06-90-01080.pdf
 
Risk to reward. How much do you have to lose? And how much more do you have to gain at that age?

No one wants to be 19, popping cialis just to get it up long enough to please the bored girlfriend. Once your dick starts getting unreliable on it's own. . .

Same for the TRT issue. It's a big risk to take at that age, and a lot of years of pinning to go before you die.

That's my biggest issue with it. I've been looking for the research myself, albeit in a half assed manner. I don't necessarily know that all the arguments we throw at younger users are valid.

However, the risk to reward, and also the maturity aspect do need to be addressed. Yes, it is a personal decision on whether or not one is "ready" for whatever. But still. I was a dumbfuck at 18, and in ten years, you will be too. Everyone looks back and wants to kick themselves. Nature of life.

Finally, look through the men's health and pct sections. Anecdotally, the younger crowd seems to get hit a lot harder on the sexual dysfunction and recovery side of things. Whether that's because you all tend to panic at that age, or due to an underdeveloped system, it does not make for a pleasant experience.

At the end off the day, if you are an 18 year old who hasn't learned how to research a beginner cycle on meso without asking questions, then you aren't ready. I don't know if I've ever asked a gear question here, at least not on basics. Everything you could ever want has already been answered.

I know, not at all what you are looking for. But I'm bored, so meh. Maybe one of the good docs around here can give us both some better reading material soon.
 
D-Ballin said:
Risk to reward. How much do you have to lose? And how much more do you have to gain at that age?

No one wants to be 19, popping cialis just to get it up long enough to please the bored girlfriend. Once your dick starts getting unreliable on it's own. . .

Same for the TRT issue. It's a big risk to take at that age, and a lot of years of pinning to go before you die.

That's my biggest issue with it. I've been looking for the research myself, albeit in a half assed manner. I don't necessarily know that all the arguments we throw at younger users are valid.

However, the risk to reward, and also the maturity aspect do need to be addressed. Yes, it is a personal decision on whether or not one is "ready" for whatever. But still. I was a dumbfuck at 18, and in ten years, you will be too. Everyone looks back and wants to kick themselves. Nature of life.

Finally, look through the men's health and pct sections. Anecdotally, the younger crowd seems to get hit a lot harder on the sexual dysfunction and recovery side of things. Whether that's because you all tend to panic at that age, or due to an underdeveloped system, it does not make for a pleasant experience.

At the end off the day, if you are an 18 year old who hasn't learned how to research a beginner cycle on meso without asking questions, then you aren't ready. I don't know if I've ever asked a gear question here, at least not on basics. Everything you could ever want has already been answered.

I know, not at all what you are looking for. But I'm bored, so meh. Maybe one of the good docs around here can give us both some better reading material soon.
Click to expand...

The problem is that there just isn't that much reading material out there because illegal steroid use by adolescents hasn't been really studied in a clinical sense, the same really for adults. Any studies on the physiological effects of beyond-medical-use of steroids by adolescents are done on lab rats. We can hypothesis about what additional risks there are in teens abusing steroids but it's almost impossible to find studies on it. Some of the biggest concerns to me are short-term and long-term psychological effects, endocrine system damage, and physical development issues.
 
D-Ballin said:
Risk to reward. How much do you have to lose? And how much more do you have to gain at that age?
Click to expand...

This is it in a nutshell.
If you have a legitimate opportunity to make a living for yourself off your body then I say go for it. But the cold hard truth is that this is the 1%...I'm never going to sit here on my high horse and tell a 18 year old kid with a D1 scholarship that PED's aren't the answer to his dreams. Depends what his dreams are...
 
I say if you have a good base of knowledge about anabolics hormones and know the possible risks starting young and potential risk later in life. Then that is your own decision.

Do I regret starting 3 years ago? no
Will I regret it later in life? probably
 
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TANGO.ECHO.KILO said:
This is it in a nutshell.
If you have a legitimate opportunity to make a living for yourself off your body then I say go for it. But the cold hard truth is that this is the 1%...I'm never going to sit here on my high horse and tell a 18 year old kid with a D1 scholarship that PED's aren't the answer to his dreams. Depends what his dreams are...
Click to expand...
Oh, most definitely. Even chasing the bodybuilding pipe dream. If you're genuinely competing, and the risk makes sense to you, then I'm not the one to tell you otherwise.

It's a little different for the 140lb kid who can't get bigger naturally "because of his genetics" though, lol.

I'm still torn on the issue. Meso is probably the most comprehensive harm reduction resource on the web for this subject. But we don't operate as such with youth sometimes. I think a lot of the time we're too quick to ostracize these kids. Granted, most of them do it to themselves with the askholing and arrogance. But still. . .
 
Guys, I agree with all of what you're saying- but i think this thread is going a little off topic. I was simply inquiring about if/why steroids exhibit different negative effects in younger users than older (25--->) ones. Purely out of curiosity. So far, like DNP, most evidence seems to be anecdotal/broscience at best. Just looking for someone to explain...
1) if/why gear usage cuases hypogonadism/other permanent effects to a greater degree in younger users
2) if the whole "estrogen/growth plate theory" issue could be solved with some tamoxifen or a non aromatizing compound
And any other issues anyone can find d some data on. I realize evidence is scarce due to the nature of gear, as well as the ethical/regulatory barriers of studying steroids in younger (16-22ish) users. But there has to be something from before the big gov't anti steroid campaign? I mean, even lsd was studied scientifically before it was scheduled. Thanks
 
D-Ballin said:
Oh, most definitely. Even chasing the bodybuilding pipe dream. If you're genuinely competing, and the risk makes sense to you, then I'm not the one to tell you otherwise.

It's a little different for the 140lb kid who can't get bigger naturally "because of his genetics" though, lol.

I'm still torn on the issue. Meso is probably the most comprehensive harm reduction resource on the web for this subject. But we don't operate as such with youth sometimes. I think a lot of the time we're too quick to ostracize these kids. Granted, most of them do it to themselves with the askholing and arrogance. But still. . .
Click to expand...
As someone who is both young and has danced with some dumb compounds (nothing hormonal), I can say this: it's really, REALLY hard to talk someone around my age out of something. I think you guys should give the facts, help with risk reduction in every way you can, and let the user decide. Risk reduction is the best way to approach things imo. Which is why I started this thread. To get the facts about using gear at a young age and any evidence I can backing/refuting popular claims
 
weekendwarrior said:
As someone who is both young and has danced with some dumb compounds (nothing hormonal), I can say this: it's really, REALLY hard to talk someone around my age out of something. I think you guys should give the facts, help with risk reduction in every way you can, and let the user decide. Risk reduction is the best way to approach things imo. Which is why I started this thread. To get the facts about using gear at a young age and any evidence I can backing/refuting popular claims
Click to expand...
how are you going to get gear when you are in rotation?
 
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