Religion, science, or both... Where do you stand?

[Silentlemon1011]

No one can explain what caused the Big Bang. They try to rationalize it away that there couldn’t possibly be an all eternal being who is self existent with no beginning and no end, yet find it easier to believe somehow, somewhere in the existence of nothing, something sparked. It’s even funnier to believe that they can believe in an always existing universe without considering that something or someone eternal created that.

It cam be accurately explained by phasing neutrinos

Not to rain on your parade
ans I respect everyones opinion.

But phasing neutrinos created BY a big bang, could actually CREATE the big bang that created them, pretty cool stuff actually.

Like I said, not here to argue God or anything else,
Nothing but love and respect to each mand belief system

I just think, that theory is cool as fuck

 

[Groundfighter]

Dr William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacharias, and John Lennox. You’re welcome

Christopher Hitchens destroyed every single one of them and more !!!

 

[Biggerarms22]

Christopher Hitchens destroyed every single one of them and more !!!

Can Christopher Hitchens explain what happened before the big bang or make sense of the universe?

 

[Villain]

Can Christopher Hitchens explain what happened before the big bang or make sense of the universe?

Lol, no. No one can, as they can only speculate.

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

To make it simple... religion is about making money and having power... read Nietzsche’s On genealogy of morality... very interesting


Universe: i think we cannot understand that everything always existed and a “before, made of Nothing” couldnt exist,because Nothing means Nothing, even an electron... to start something with..

I think we as human are just a part of the fucking universe that became self conscious..

We live with the law of lifes... that means Genetic variability, Cruelty, Lack of Empathy, Genius, Severe Dumbness, Happiness, Depression, Desire to create life, Desire to Kill Themselves and/or Kill others, Mental issues, Health issues, Disparity, Luck, Unluck.

I think our “souls” are bonded to atoms and or electrons.. we were just the food our mother ate... so i think souls are bonded to matter... and since 80 years are nothing into a infinite timespace i believe that when we (as men) will die, we restart living tabula rasa into another form of life... without consciousness of course... maybe this is mine infinite life that i m living... in next life i would be a fuckin piece of carbon billions of kilometers far away from this shitty motherfucked planet

 

[4Figgy]

Christopher Hitchens destroyed every single one of them and more !!!

Not even close, lol. I’ve seen every one of Craig’s debates and he hasn’t been upended by anyone. If anyone thinks Craig has been “destroyed” in a debate, they clearly don’t understand his arguments or philosophy. There’s a reason Dawkins won’t even debate him.

 

[Test_Subject]

I'm not a religious person, myself, but the way I look at it is that religion and science aren't necessarily contentious. You can be religious and also take a scientific approach -- Take Max Planck or Spinoza for example.

The contention only exists when you choose unsupported belief over factual, evidence-based belief. At that point, you're not supporting science.

 

[Uglyrichie]

How do we know the gods we worship are still alive many gods and deities came before them that are no longer acknowledged what happened to them. How come we are so accepting of the Aberhamic gods when even the bible acknowledges others they just refer to them as false or idols

 

[rthor4573]

For starters, I'd be the first person to believe in God if I saw some proof. I actually want there to be a God. I just can't have believe in something that I dont know for sure exists.

But it surely isn't the god from the Bible. Or rather, the Bible surely isn't the "word of god".

We're talking about books of, and stories in, the Bible that were passed down orally before ever be written down, much less translated into different languages before reaching the English language. Take the word translated into "virgin" for the NKJ bible. The original word literally meant "young girl". But hey, you have to have the miraculous inception to have the Son of God. There are many other mistranlations. Can totally be looked up.

We're talking about books that "didn't make the cut" into the Bible, and then that didn't make the cut into the NKJV of the Bible. The Gnostic Gospels for starters.

My point is that whatever "god" is, it likely isn't one of our preconceived ideas. But i would sure as hell still like to believe in a god. I just can't yet.

Just as an ant can't conceive of what a checking account is, or a mouse can't look at a spaceship and comprehend it because these things are just way to far advanced for these creatures, I dont see any reason why the same cant be true for humans. We don't try to explain these things to those simpler creatures because they couldn't possibly understand. Germs don't see this massive world in which they live, and i think that's likely the same for us. We can't get big enough in our minds. We wouldn't possibly be able to understand "it". I'm not saying "it" is God, but there's definitely something so big compared to us, we'll never have a fucking chance of understanding it.

This post conceptually vague enough for ya? Lol

 

[S317]

Do you even see what you wrote? Proven theories. It would no longer be a theory then, but fact, which it’s not.

Scientific theory is used differently than layman’s theory. Scientific theory is an explanation of a fact

 

[S317]

Can Christopher Hitchens explain what happened before the big bang or make sense of the universe?

Well no. The point isn’t to fill in the blank with God or some other power or explanation without proof just to have an answer. The beauty of science is to say I don’t know but let’s look at the evidence and investigate.
I’m not an atheist I’m more agnostic at times I suppose.
Religions were created to to answer things we didn’t have the ability to understand. People used to have an individual god for everything until over time we figured out how those things actually worked. Now we don’t pray to the rain gods or gods of prosperity etc.

 

[Test_Subject]

People used to have an individual god for everything until over time we figured out how those things actually worked. Now we don’t pray to the rain gods or gods of prosperity etc.

Nonsense. Famine is caused by a lack of sacrifices to Yum Caax.

 

[Demondosage]

God 100%. I used to be an atheist though, until I realized that my life sucked and I always looked for the negative in things.

What changed it for me was the fact that I was trying everything that was supposed to make me feel accomplished and complete and it wasn't working for me. After experiencing fatherhood my stance on it changed a lot also. Life just seemed meaningless without believing in a higher power or seeing God work through other people.

I don't care who believes or doesn't believe in anything, as long as they aren't hurting people with their beliefs then I'm fine with it.

 

[Test_Subject]

Life just seemed meaningless without believing in a higher power or seeing God work through other people.

It's funny, I take comfort in that exact thought. I'm very much in Sartre's camp that the meaning of life is that which you assign to it. The "meaninglessness" is very much a blank canvas on which you can paint your own painting.

I totally get that that idea is depressing to some people, though.

I don't care who believes or doesn't believe in anything, as long as they aren't hurting people with their beliefs then I'm fine with it.

Very much agreed.

 

[Demondosage]

It's funny, I take comfort in that exact thought. I'm very much in Sartre's camp that the meaning of life is that which you assign to it. The "meaninglessness" is very much a blank canvas on which you can paint your own painting.

I totally get that that idea is depressing to some people, though.


Very much agreed.

I can understand that, I guess for myself I was just at a low in life and decided to give God a shot since nothing else that I was trying was really working out for me. I used to make fun of it all, laugh at ppl who mentioned God, I looked at them as weak and gullible. I would occasionally date a chick that wanted to drag me into a church and I couldn't wait to leave! All I heard was mumbling and it was like Charlie Brown listening to the teacher. What changed for me was when I was at a point where I actually listened and tried applying it to my own life. My life began to improve and I began seeing good in ppl and realizing that there was still good in the world if I opened my eyes to it. I'm just sort of at a point where I relate that beauty and good in life and ppl with God.

But I used to be the biggest atheist ever bro. I never would have thought that I would have walked up in a church one day by myself and said "Ok, let's try this God stuff out because obviously I cannot stop screwing up in life and I'm empty"

 

[Eman]

I didn't call it a mathematically perfect model, I said it was as good a model of human behavior as Newton's Law of Gravity is of an apple falling from a tree. Newton's law of gravity isn't mathematically perfect either, though I assumed you already knew that.

Human behavior can't be explained by science, can't be predicted except under very specific and extreme conditions. However, it can be explained by free will, though not predicted except as a subjective - in effect, only you know what you are going to do.

I also didn't say anything about proof of god. I replied to your concrete evidence of statement. The inability of science to explain or model human behavior is concrete evidence, not proof, of free will. Free will is concrete evidence of something that violates numerous scientific laws and theories. I call that concrete evidence of a creator, or in this case God.

I see what you mean. The idea of free will a
AND an omniscient creator do not reconcile with one another though. Do you think you really have free will if your supernatural creator knows everything that has and will happen?

I personally can't even get that far with the thought of it though. It's an absurd leap in logic to me. If I cannot figure out who a Christmas gift came from, I do not leap to the conclusion that it was Santa Claus... If something unusual happens, I don't assume it was ghosts in the attic. All supernatural ideas created by man that you might be able to come up with convincing evidence for but at the end of the day, it's rhetoric for the existence of big foot or leprechauns.

While I do agree with you that religion does present some moral anchor, I don't think it's any better or different from the state... The government is just towing the religious line the church sets. They are one in the same... Probably with similar death counts.

 

[flenser]

I see what you mean. The idea of free will a
AND an omniscient creator do not reconcile with one another though. Do you think you really have free will if your supernatural creator knows everything that has and will happen?

I don't believe the creator knows everything that has and will happen. As you say, that can't be reconciled with free will. I also don't believe the Bible (KJ in my family) is the exact word of God. I choose Christianity because it fits in with my family and culture, and because it provides far better moral guidance than its detractors believe.

I personally can't even get that far with the thought of it though. It's an absurd leap in logic to me. If I cannot figure out who a Christmas gift came from, I do not leap to the conclusion that it was Santa Claus... If something unusual happens, I don't assume it was ghosts in the attic. All supernatural ideas created by man that you might be able to come up with convincing evidence for but at the end of the day, it's rhetoric for the existence of big foot or leprechauns.

Why does it have to be supernatural? And I've made no conclusions, only a hypothesis. One that fits the evidence and happens to go well with my private life.

While I do agree with you that religion does present some moral anchor, I don't think it's any better or different from the state... The government is just towing the religious line the church sets. They are one in the same... Probably with similar death counts.

We will have to agree to disagree on the suitability of the state as a moral anchor. That and its death count which going by my morals is extremely high just starting around the 1970s, and that doesn't even count wars.

 

[Villain]

While I do agree with you that religion does present some moral anchor, I don't think it's any better or different from the state... The government is just towing the religious line the church sets. They are one in the same... Probably with similar death counts.

Probably not. Probably not even close.

 

[Eman]

Why does it have to be supernatural? And I've made no conclusions, only a hypothesis. One that fits the evidence and happens to go well with my private life.

Because a god is the epitome of supernatural... Unless faith becomes fact, there's so other way to define it. My point being that I can find reasonably strong evidence of many supernatural oddities like I mentioned above (ghosts, Bigfoot, etc) but I would sound delusional to even bring it up and that's without even using the aspect of faith into my evidence as most believers would.

I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking your hypothesis either, I appreciate your posts about this as well as other topics - we just have starkly different beliefs and thus, my evidence fits my hypothesis the opposite way.

We will have to agree to disagree on the suitability of the state as a moral anchor. That and its death count which going by my morals is extremely high just starting around the 1970s, and that doesn't even count wars.

Oh, no no no... I didn't mean to say that the state is suitable as a moral anchor... Just that I don't believe it to be that much different than religion. The choices of the state are frequently driven by religion despite the supposed separation... Much to my annoyance.

Probably not. Probably not even close.
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I didn't say that religion causes more war, I said it likely had a higher death count. For instance, WW2 was not a holy war - but it still managed to attempt the extermination of Jews from the planet. When a woman gets legally stoned to death in Iran because she gets accused of adultery, it's not because of a holy war... When a woman gets beaten to death by a mob in India because she's accused of being a witch, it's not a holy war... But all of that is still in the name of God.

Difference in religious beliefs sows division and where there is division, there is an opportunity for conflict. Religion has created a lot of conflict and subsequent death or simply hatred - certainly moreso than atheism. The common tenant for all religions is to treat others as you'd like to be treated.. yet infrequently employed.

 

[Avies48]

Let's dive into some of the conspiracy world. What if you can't get a job if your not vaccinated where is the free will. This has been talked about by more than conspiracy theorists

Ahhh but do u see what u typed?

"What if u cant get a job if ur not vaccinated" that there in itself shows free will..... U have made a decision based on your own free will on wether or not u would take a vaccine...... The opposite of free will would be, being forced to take the vaccine.... Therego, your free will has been taken from you..... (And if this happens where u cannot get a job based on vaccines etc.... The its time to find a new job, or the sign of the beast is amongst us)

Free will was given in the garden, (im a believer of course), and free will had to be given because without it, We would have been created as robots, and then grace, love, etc... Would not even exist.....and there would be no reason for any of it had God choosen to forgo giving us our own free will....

A third of the Angels (yes Gods own created beings who basically are more powerful than us) were cast out of heaven... WHY? because they excersized their free will, to either worship the almighty, or stage a coup.....


A lot of people, i feel believe God already knows who will make it to heaven and who to hell.
, But he does not. It is freely up to us which path we choose to go down.... Free will again.....



Every dream we have and every thought, reaction, action all have consequences, and each can lead us down different paths,

Think of our thoughts as worm holes, we can imagine what our lives may be like in many different scenarios, if we make a certain decision, we see the plans, and what needs to be done in any situation or decision.... But we have so many everyday, it is up to us to decide (free will) which worm hole (plan, thought, actions) we can go down and which ones might lead us to destruction or accomplishment.....


If free will did not exist we wouldnt be able to choose for ourselves, and thats an issue as governments are trying to take away our rights to having a will to choose....