As far as the illegal commerce being an excuse for poor quality products I don't buy that either. Brut you have had my back and i have had yours. That is the way it is.
That goes for JB as well.
That goes for JB as well.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Respect for others
- Thread starter Big_paul
- Start date
Dd- just wondering where you have been at dude... all is well?[/QUOTE]
Yea man, I stepped out of the scene for a little while. Had a lot of financial shit going on and stress. Still training hard but I was sort of in a limbo for a few months dealing with bullshit. I'd say I'm 90% back to the level I normally go hard at
Yea man, I stepped out of the scene for a little while. Had a lot of financial shit going on and stress. Still training hard but I was sort of in a limbo for a few months dealing with bullshit. I'd say I'm 90% back to the level I normally go hard at
Agreed. I've never been so disgusted by what I've seen on other forums as I have in the last few months. Meso's format has always been different but I'm noticing that as it continues to grow and evolve, the dichotomy that exists between Meso and other forums is becoming greater. I think it's reaching the point where when members that are familiar with the way things are done on other forums come to Meso, they think they've landed on a forum planet.
Meso has many great qualities that set it apart but none more striking than its lack of censorship and the quality of its information - information that is based on the evidence. In the time I've been here, I've watched Meso move even further in the direction of evidence based information. Much of that can be attributed to @Michael Scally MD but there many are others that deserve credit too.
It's also worth noting Meso's lack of hierarchies places everyone on more or less the same level, where relatively new member's posts are judged on the quality of their content rather than how many "VIP" titles they've acquired or how long they've been around.
When you take into account Meso's lack of hierarchies and also the fact that everyone's posts will be judged and challenged on the evidence, you'll find the source of the majority of the complaints coming from other forums. There a many, many VIP and Veteran title holders that don't get the respect they feel they deserve from Meso. VIP's convince each other to believe their own publicity. After all, since they've been awarded a title by other VIP's, it must mean they know what they're talking about. And on other forums, deference is paid to their opinions, regardless of whether it's based on the facts or not. However, when one of these longtime VIP's come to Meso and find their bro science challenged by a member waving studies that refute their entire post, they get offended. It's even worse when they're challenged by a member with less than a year at Meso. They then go back to their own forums complaining that Meso is a disrespectful forum. We've had at least two examples of these VIP's in the last month.
Indeed it is - and does. It's the nature of the beast.
BigPaul has a point: there's nothing wrong with being respectful towards those with whom we disagree and we should all strive to treat others as we want to be treated. But each member has to do that on their own because the minute you start telling people what they can and can't say, you no longer have an uncensored forum. And that would be a far greater loss than a few bruised egos - especially egos on other forums.
Regards
CBS
I think point we do not want it to be like rome. Although we dont nesscerirly have the vet status label here now know member. Im sure Millard did this for a reason. The Romans were civil. But some of the higher senators taking bribes underhand deals. But the acting like they above and beyond all levels of society. They become a status that people admire and want to emulate. We our role models of the way the behavior that is portrayed here if we act in a mob like mentality here other member will emulate that. Advise read about rome or watch the series. We do not want to be like politicians here. But more of a peaceful society that works together in harmony. I think we should use the tools given to us by Millard like multiple messaging to talk to the person that needs to be called out first before put on blast. I seen this once done and it worked out far much better. What im saying is we dont have to internet tuff guys to each other. Its wrong to do if some one is shilling or reping it will eventually be very obvious. Let them be a sale out everyone will know. It. I say this alot Salem witch trial and mobs of rome. We do not want to be like this. Lets get back to the real topics of fitness, bodybuilding, food, aas and so on. Peace out.
lightspan
New Member
My take on this was that BP was suggesting we try and be a bit kinder and gentler to each other and to the throngs of noobs that come through here. After reading many replies from guys I respect, I think there are a couple threads of thought going here that are not dissonant.
Eliminating some of the pissing matches and shit-talking in threads is a good idea and a lofty goal. It doesn't mean censorship, it means choosing not to respond to idiocy.
But what I also see is a very real need to have zero tolerance for shilling and bigging up shady/scamming sources. @brutus79, you may not be the paradigm of delicate speech, but what you do is effective, and is not done for shits and giggles, it has a place here, it benefits us all. Respect. As I said above, sometimes shit needs to be said, and it needs to be said now. Same goes for @johnnyBALLZ, you cats bring something very valuable to the table. You two have plenty of knowledge to contribute and often do so in a disturbingly mild way.
. Don't stop doing what you're doing.
@CensoredBoardsSuck hits the nail on the head, Meso offers evidence-based information, a lack of hierarchical structure and and a lack of censorship to foster the truth. That's what drew me in and keeps me here.
Censorship is not the end goal. Holding the line against the hordes of scammers and shills is, while trying to make meso the kind of place that people come for useful advice and information, and stay to contribute.
I still think meso would be better off without sources. Im probably just a hopeless idealist.
On a lot of fucking test.
Eliminating some of the pissing matches and shit-talking in threads is a good idea and a lofty goal. It doesn't mean censorship, it means choosing not to respond to idiocy.
But what I also see is a very real need to have zero tolerance for shilling and bigging up shady/scamming sources. @brutus79, you may not be the paradigm of delicate speech, but what you do is effective, and is not done for shits and giggles, it has a place here, it benefits us all. Respect. As I said above, sometimes shit needs to be said, and it needs to be said now. Same goes for @johnnyBALLZ, you cats bring something very valuable to the table. You two have plenty of knowledge to contribute and often do so in a disturbingly mild way.
. Don't stop doing what you're doing. @CensoredBoardsSuck hits the nail on the head, Meso offers evidence-based information, a lack of hierarchical structure and and a lack of censorship to foster the truth. That's what drew me in and keeps me here.
Censorship is not the end goal. Holding the line against the hordes of scammers and shills is, while trying to make meso the kind of place that people come for useful advice and information, and stay to contribute.
I still think meso would be better off without sources. Im probably just a hopeless idealist.
On a lot of fucking test.
borderbound
New Member
I still think meso would be better off without sources. Im probably just a hopeless idea
It would become a ghost town .... crickets and tumbleweeds
5 years? I would say on average most are gone in 5 months. Hell, I've been here for 10 years and they always come and go. MESO is my home and always will be, but demeaning new members or members in general because their lack of knowledge, inexperience, etc. is absolutely worthless. This has triggered me to branch out more recently than I ever have. It's the same old song and dance and gets very old.
mands
Guys I know better than to expect a sudden about face. We are a different breed. I will say it again, its just something to think about. We will all be better off for it.
I agree with cbs also. I have not felt good about some of the things I have seen on other boards. I think it just reinforces what I am saying here.
I also don't want anyone to think that I'm not proud to be a long time members of meso, that is not true. Until recently this is the only board I have posted on. We have a lot of good things to share with others who have a similar passion for the iron. It has kept me alive, and I'm not exaggerating
I want to thank the guys who have posted here. I already knew we have a good crew here, But it's good to see that a lot of guys feel the same way as I do.
Bp
I agree with cbs also. I have not felt good about some of the things I have seen on other boards. I think it just reinforces what I am saying here.
I also don't want anyone to think that I'm not proud to be a long time members of meso, that is not true. Until recently this is the only board I have posted on. We have a lot of good things to share with others who have a similar passion for the iron. It has kept me alive, and I'm not exaggerating
I want to thank the guys who have posted here. I already knew we have a good crew here, But it's good to see that a lot of guys feel the same way as I do.
Bp
johnnyBALLZ
New Member
I can definitely get on board with this.. I hate seeing brand new guys getting blasted because they don't understand something..
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I agree. I cringe when I see a new member or obvious inexperienced guy asking questions only to be attacked by others. In a lot of cases, by relatively new members and a few older guys. It’s like a pack mentality. A simple but professional response to his question should be adequate.
Right off the bat we have been guilty of jumping on guys who asks what we believe are “stupid questions”. The new guy usually doesn’t know how to ask, after all, it can be intimidating and awkward trying to get into a new neighborhood.
Granted, some will not accept courteous advice and continue to badger for info. One or two terse replies from members should be enough to emphasize the point. That’s when it gets ugly. If we just left the thread and not contribute to the beat down, I believe the guy would finally get the point. Who knows, he may actually turn out to be a solid guy. I say, give’m a chance, if they’re assholes it’ll be obvious.
4leafclover
New Member
Here's what I think, we should continue the beat down on first posts asking for a source, or 1st posts saying gear is g2g when they haven't pinned it yet. But I myself this week have been trying to be kinder to all other posts (posting in the wrong section, etc).
But I slightly agree that this is an open forum, so if someone wants to berate someone, that's their prerogative. Does it mean I have to jump in, NO. Can it be annoying sure. I myself have got into a couple of tit for tats, and I usually just leave the thread after 1-2 responses, because those guys normally don't hang around anyways. I would rather have freedom and all the problems associated with freedom of speech, than to have other boards I don't even respect have nicer things to say about us.
I also do agree, that we can be a tad bit jumpy sometimes too, so here's my pledge. I will still more than likely SAY SOMETHING to stupid posts, but I will also add in my post how the person should conduct themselves. I.E. You're stupid for asking for a source with your 1st post, here is how you go about using the search function, feel free to ask the community about their input on gear you are considering using.
But I slightly agree that this is an open forum, so if someone wants to berate someone, that's their prerogative. Does it mean I have to jump in, NO. Can it be annoying sure. I myself have got into a couple of tit for tats, and I usually just leave the thread after 1-2 responses, because those guys normally don't hang around anyways. I would rather have freedom and all the problems associated with freedom of speech, than to have other boards I don't even respect have nicer things to say about us.
I also do agree, that we can be a tad bit jumpy sometimes too, so here's my pledge. I will still more than likely SAY SOMETHING to stupid posts, but I will also add in my post how the person should conduct themselves. I.E. You're stupid for asking for a source with your 1st post, here is how you go about using the search function, feel free to ask the community about their input on gear you are considering using.
Don't disagree with you on knocking someone under those situations. The flame level of your response is minimal and negated by your solid advice. It's the jump ons that usually contribute nothing but derogatory attacks, which puts the new guy/idiot into defense mode. Like most young guys, stupid takes over and they attack back, more jump in and it gets boringly ugly and unproductive.
The advice was given, if he wants to keep pushing it, shut him down by not responding to him, which will frustrate him even more. I know it's not the fun thing to do, but this board is IMO, the elite board in this arena and our first responses should be informative rather inflammatory.
The advice was given, if he wants to keep pushing it, shut him down by not responding to him, which will frustrate him even more. I know it's not the fun thing to do, but this board is IMO, the elite board in this arena and our first responses should be informative rather inflammatory.
HuckingFuge
New Member
well I have gotten the idiot tag way too much, cause my opinion differs from the pack. there are no set rules on how to run AAS. the site should be informative and helpful, not lets see how far we can be little someone until they leave.
our first responses should be informative rather than inflammatory. Correction: sorry, am posting in between sets and missed the 'THAN".
Northern Nutrition
Subscriber
Incredibly well written, and IMHO, long overdue here.
I was recently discussing this very topic with a respected member here and we both agreed that the pack mentality in this forum often detracts from others stepping forward and sharing their opinions for fear of becoming the target of disparaging or condescending remarks, usually stemming from a select number of members treating this forum like the wild west.
I applaud your courage and decision to step forward and share your opinions, Paul.
HiddenHippie
New Member
Im new to this board but by no means new to forums. I use them for all my interest from building cars to building bodies, to music. And it seems to be a rampant issue accross all boards. There are always jerk trolls that just love to argue, there are always the guys who got their ass chewed for not reading before asking questions that now "seize the day" when they catch a person making the same mistake as if they did not do it themselves in the beginning. And there is just the simple fact that many people are bigger jerks in the realm where they cant get touched. I know friends personally that are just not the same people when they converse on facebook or forums. And thats cause the repercussions re not real. People are just jerks these days. Not all but many more now that they can do it without a strong mash to the face.
Denkallberry
New Member
I get on this egghead board for my professional work. If you say anything stupid on that board, with their downvote system, you'll actually see your post slowly disappear. Net is, on that board, you have to think about what you're going to say before you say it.
Downvote system is a mixed bag. Even smart people on that board I'm referring to have their prejudices and intellectual dishonesties. For instance, You say much about religion, and you'll get downvoted pretty quickly, even if you're making a solid point. The upside is though, you really do have to think about what you're going to post before you start shooting your mouth off.
A system like that though wouldn't work here, because you don't want questions being considered stupid to ask. This is an AAS information board for people of all experience levels, from beginner, to vets (and this should be encouraged).
Having said all that, you could call it a member code of conduct or whatever, as has been suggested, as long as there's examples in there about what is a constructive post and what is not, as considered by Millard or a consensus, or however he wants to do it. Not really talking about censorship here unless it's dangerous info, or slander, etc. This kind of language damages the board, and value to the board is the highest priority.
So what should be perfectly fine to post? Well anybody should be able to ask general AAS knowledge questions, training questions, etc. Even ask if another member likes hermaphrodites I guess, some source questions as allowed, but anything that starts getting unproductive like a pissing match should just be deleted probably at Millard's discretion. This board is his property after all.
Most of all, raise the IQ of the discussion/debate.
Examples:
1) "Anybody who says prohormones are worth the money is a stupid fuckstick who likes hermaphrodites."
2) "My personal opinion is that prohormones are generally a waste of money. Feel free to waste your money if you want.
"
Which answer is better for the board? First one is just crude jackassery not worth responding to. Second one is a bit of a smartass answer, but hey my skin is thick I can handle it, and my response would be "well I'll take that into consideration."
Just some thoughts.
Downvote system is a mixed bag. Even smart people on that board I'm referring to have their prejudices and intellectual dishonesties. For instance, You say much about religion, and you'll get downvoted pretty quickly, even if you're making a solid point. The upside is though, you really do have to think about what you're going to post before you start shooting your mouth off.
A system like that though wouldn't work here, because you don't want questions being considered stupid to ask. This is an AAS information board for people of all experience levels, from beginner, to vets (and this should be encouraged).
Having said all that, you could call it a member code of conduct or whatever, as has been suggested, as long as there's examples in there about what is a constructive post and what is not, as considered by Millard or a consensus, or however he wants to do it. Not really talking about censorship here unless it's dangerous info, or slander, etc. This kind of language damages the board, and value to the board is the highest priority.
So what should be perfectly fine to post? Well anybody should be able to ask general AAS knowledge questions, training questions, etc. Even ask if another member likes hermaphrodites I guess, some source questions as allowed, but anything that starts getting unproductive like a pissing match should just be deleted probably at Millard's discretion. This board is his property after all.
Most of all, raise the IQ of the discussion/debate.
Examples:
1) "Anybody who says prohormones are worth the money is a stupid fuckstick who likes hermaphrodites."
2) "My personal opinion is that prohormones are generally a waste of money. Feel free to waste your money if you want.
"Which answer is better for the board? First one is just crude jackassery not worth responding to. Second one is a bit of a smartass answer, but hey my skin is thick I can handle it, and my response would be "well I'll take that into consideration."
Just some thoughts.
FuriousWO
New Member
As a new member around here, it gets really old seeing pages and pages of bullshit between two guys. But on the other hand the reactions here also make you think things through before you ask, and forces you to do your own research first or be ridiculed. Ultimately training, nutrition and AAS is a very personal thing as we are all different. What works for one or many is not necessarily the correct choice for you. I did some research but clearly not enough when I showed up here. Not wanting to be the total idiot forced me to ensure I performed some due diligence and at least came into my questions with an opinion. I think we almost all agree that nobody wants new guys to just come here, take advice as gospel and execute a plan. We want them to ask intelligent questions and form their own opinions. So while I can be intimidated at times to ask questions, the questions I do ask I've exhausted (for the most part) the resources I know of before asking.
So there's not an argument for the extreme behavior, but at least in my mind a benefit.
Just to be clear and in no way do I mean any disrespect to any of you here, I'm very much of the opinion to grow some thicker skin and deal with it. We still all showed up here knowing what it was like. If you don't like what's on TV, change the channel. Trying to control the environment around you is crazyness.
So there's not an argument for the extreme behavior, but at least in my mind a benefit.
Just to be clear and in no way do I mean any disrespect to any of you here, I'm very much of the opinion to grow some thicker skin and deal with it. We still all showed up here knowing what it was like. If you don't like what's on TV, change the channel. Trying to control the environment around you is crazyness.
Ozzy619
New Member
I agree with you, Meso makes you become diligent in the search for questions. I like how we don't spoon feed new members. I personally try and give them a link to a question so they can make their own decisions. Also, the main reason I steer clear of Astros thread is because its so much drama. It seems to be getting better, but damn it used to be cluttered and all over the place.
4leafclover
New Member
I believe this to be half true, I have several different opinions that I regularly voice, and although I have had some "nerd fights", I have never not felt like posting an alternate view. Huckingfuge also has some interesting views, that he regularly posts.
We have to be careful what we lump into one pile as disparaging, some of the comments are well deserved, and yes, some are not well deserved. Some examples serve to illustrate the point, a new person claims to have "read for days" makes a first post in the UG thread, and of course the initial response isn't warm, but they continue to post saying things like "I'm not looking to be spoon fed, but will you still give me a source". Another example, this one slightly more tricky, a new person posts in our underground lab testing right after a lab is found to be underdosed through MS and bloodwork, they appear to post "science" information that disputes (albeit the posted research looks like Wikipedia rather than an actual research paper) two very valid methods for determining quality. And a final example: A new person posts to an UGL thread, they post their bio and some general background info, but still ask questions about finding a source. Of these, which one should be guarded against, and which should be treated without dignity?
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