ROAST ME! pt.2 Second Cycle w/ Pics (Test E, Primo E, HCG)

[cinder]

hi

2023-09-08 Started training again after 1 year break (no AAS)


2023-09-15 Posted my first cycle log
2023-09-22 Started Gamma Bomb
2023-12-30 Finished Gamma Bomb round 1, started Gamma Bomb round 2 + Arms Training Program


2024-03-22 Bloodwork


2024-04-24 Finished Gamma Bomb round 2 + Arms Training Program, started Sentinel round 1


Blast goals: Recomp with tiny cal deficit
Steroidplotter Graph

2024-04-27 First week front-load: 820 Test E/w / 1065 Primo E/w (47iu/152iu/d)
2024-04-27 HCG 500iu/w (reconstituted with 3ml 1667iu/ml) (4iu/d)
2024-05-04 Maintenance: 400 Test E/w / 400 Primo E/w (23iu/57iu/d)

2024-05-21 Seriously dialed in diet


2024-06-20 Bloodwork


*Stopping cycle early (~8 weeks instead of 16) to cut on cruise instead


2024-06-20 Cruise: HCG 1000iu/w (8iu/d), 100 Test E/w (20iu Mon & Thurs), Stopped Primo

Weight and BP data:

---

Mistakes I've made:
- Excessive volume by combining Gamma Bomb with Arms Training Program caused minor upper back injury
- 1:1 Test/Primo ratio should've been 2:1
- Started HCG too early
- Realized mid-blast that recomping is inefficient and cutting during a blast is a waste of AAS
- Not putting enough importance on diet control and taking it seriously way too late

Goals:
1. Cruise to 12%bf with 500cal deficit on 100/1000 Test/HCG
2. Blast to 17%bf with 500cal surplus on 400/300/200/1000 Test/Primo/NPP/HCG
3. PCT (or cruise?)

I read the forum every day and there's a lot of bullshit to sift through, it's very difficult sometimes to find out who's right and wrong. Even some of the biggest brains on here are wrong sometimes, but some patterns have become clear: Diet is king and by far the most difficult, low bf% is essential to cut and bulk efficiently, training hard is the easy part and high dose gear does nothing for long-term gains.

Questions:
- What would you estimate my current bf%?
- Did I front-load properly?
- How much do you trust steroidplotter.com?
- What do you think of my goals?
- Should I PCT or cruise after my next blast?
- What do you think about doing John Meadows programs forever?
- How do you feel about your own body?
- Does anything stand out to you?

P.S: Title is clickbait I'm actually looking for constructive criticism

ok bye!

 

[TUTfan]

Questions:
- What would you estimate my current bf%? 22%
- Did I front-load properly? No, you don't need steroids yet.
- Should I PCT or cruise after my next blast? No steroids yet.
- How do you feel about your own body? Its amazing for 50+
- Does anything stand out to you? Laziness and thinking PEDs are Magic Also learn how to pose

 

[Greenbay68]

Looks like you made progress, learned somethings and probably had fun. You seem aware of the possible negative consequences, so I won’t beat that dead horse.

I think you’ll find getting leaner first will make you happiest.

 

[Excel.exe]

HCG 1000iu/w (8iu/d)

You pinned HCG daily?

 

[4Drago]

Just by lookin at you and I'm in my 50s as well, you come across as the guy who takes his bike everywhere and that's the sum of his exercise plan. Are you trying to double your current amount of muscle mass? This would be what you'd need to look like you even workout. You look like a normal healthy male. You need about another 20lbs of mast inmy opinion.
I'm not trying to dissuade you at all but you need some serious changes. Your gym plan needs major adjustment maybe just do PPL with one to 2 days off between workouts for recovery. Eat healthy in a calorie surplus some nutrient high junk food will aid in this on occasion when you get tied of eating.
You probably still only need 500mg test thats it. Maybe up the dose a little if you feel you need it and use aromasin at least twice a week at 12.5mg. If you're not worried about hair lose try 1:2 ratio of test and masteron. It will curb most side from the test.


Learning to train with intensity is much better then lifting too heavy at our age.
And always get blood work, donate blood, and keep e2 in control.
In my opinion, in your 50s get on trt. When we are older getting back to normal levels is almost impossible or takes quit on long time and your gains will be lost.
When in my 40s though I had a base already 5'9" 220lbs aas free for years. This
Is how I can keep my size on less cycles and more breaks/ cruising. Get your training down, eat in a slight surplus maybe 500 calories more. And always aim for not hitting too high levels of fb%. 15% is good for bulking. It you notice fast gain increase cardio for cut some carbs for a week's weeks then het back to your bulk.

 

[cinder]

Looks like you made progress, learned somethings and probably had fun. You seem aware of the possible negative consequences, so I won’t beat that dead horse.

I think you’ll find getting leaner first will make you happiest.

I'm very dedicated to this lifestyle, I love learning more (there's so much to learn) and it's pretty much all I think about every day recently. Thank you for acknowledging my progress! Getting lean is definitely the priority right now

 

[cinder]

You pinned HCG daily?

Indeed I do, since the half-life is short it makes more sense to me to do it this way. I do daily injections of test and primo too during the blast to avoid pip and get more stable levels. Thoughts?

 

[cinder]

Just by lookin at you and I'm in my 50s as well, you come across as the guy who takes his bike everywhere and that's the sum of his exercise plan. Are you trying to double your current amount of muscle mass? This would be what you'd need to look like you even workout. You look like a normal healthy male. You need about another 20lbs of mast inmy opinion.
I'm not trying to dissuade you at all but you need some serious changes. Your gym plan needs major adjustment maybe just do PPL with one to 2 days off between workouts for recovery. Eat healthy in a calorie surplus some nutrient high junk food will aid in this on occasion when you get tied of eating.
You probably still only need 500mg test thats it. Maybe up the dose a little if you feel you need it and use aromasin at least twice a week at 12.5mg. If you're not worried about hair lose try 1:2 ratio of test and masteron. It will curb most side from the test.


Learning to train with intensity is much better then lifting too heavy at our age.
And always get blood work, donate blood, and keep e2 in control.
In my opinion, in your 50s get on trt. When we are older getting back to normal levels is almost impossible or takes quit on long time and your gains will be lost.
When in my 40s though I had a base already 5'9" 220lbs aas free for years. This
Is how I can keep my size on less cycles and more breaks/ cruising. Get your training down, eat in a slight surplus maybe 500 calories more. And always aim for not hitting too high levels of fb%. 15% is good for bulking. It you notice fast gain increase cardio for cut some carbs for a week's weeks then het back to your bulk.

Adding 20lbs of mass (and more) is clearly the whole point, I know I'm not big but saying that I look like I don't even lift is a bit delusional in my opinion. I'm 6ft for context.

I'm currently following John Meadows Sentinel plan for training which is 6 days a week, I follow everything to the letter as much as I can. In my previous cycle log I was criticised for not training hard enough and was recommended his plans, I feel like they're working quite well. You don't think his plans are intense enough?

I'm also aware that I need to bulk like you're recommending, although doesn't it make more sense to cut first since my bf% is still high? My current objective is to get to 12% before going in a surplus. Also not sure recommending junk food is necessary or good advice

Currently I'm down to a trt dose while I do this cut since I plan to blast soon once I reach the bf target. The blast would be 400/300/200 test/primo/npp, do you think this makes sense as a bulking cycle for where I'm at?

I really appreciate your response, thank you for taking the time to type it out!

 

[Excel.exe]

Indeed I do, since the half-life is short it makes more sense to me to do it this way. I do daily injections of test and primo too during the blast to avoid pip and get more stable levels. Thoughts?

I read somewhere that injecting HCG daily could lead to the desensitization of Leydig cells. I could be wrong.

 

[cinder]

I read somewhere that injecting HCG daily could lead to the desensitization of Leydig cells. I could be wrong.

From what I read desensitization does occur but it also recovers.

There's also this post by @Type-IIx that I kinda referenced, although he suggests injecting biweekly compared to every day like I do.

I'm not a researcher so I'm probably misinterpreting a bunch of stuff, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[4Drago]

Adding 20lbs of mass (and more) is clearly the whole point, I know I'm not big but saying that I look like I don't even lift is a bit delusional in my opinion. I'm 6ft for context.

I'm currently following John Meadows Sentinel plan for training which is 6 days a week, I follow everything to the letter as much as I can. In my previous cycle log I was criticised for not training hard enough and was recommended his plans, I feel like they're working quite well. You don't think his plans are intense enough?

I'm also aware that I need to bulk like you're recommending, although doesn't it make more sense to cut first since my bf% is still high? My current objective is to get to 12% before going in a surplus. Also not sure recommending junk food is necessary or good advice

Currently I'm down to a trt dose while I do this cut since I plan to blast soon once I reach the bf target. The blast would be 400/300/200 test/primo/npp, do you think this makes sense as a bulking cycle for where I'm at?

I really appreciate your response, thank you for taking the time to type it out!

I wasn't meaning to sound like a jerk. Just stating my opinion. With all this work you're putting in something isn't working. That why I recommend PPL type training plan.
To me you look like a guy in decent shape that rides his bike a lot. You're legs are bigger then your upper body which could be genetic. But you don't look like you use aas.
Don't be afraid to change things up. Not every training style works for everyone. The idea is to grow mass. Food, training, and recovery.
If that training plan isn't working try something else.
Be honest with yourself. When you put on that shirt do you look like you bodybuild?

 

[cinder]

I wasn't meaning to sound like a jerk. Just stating my opinion. With all this work you're putting in something isn't working. That why I recommend PPL type training plan.
To me you look like a guy in decent shape that rides his bike a lot. You're legs are bigger then your upper body which could be genetic. But you don't look like you use aas.
Don't be afraid to change things up. Not every training style works for everyone. The idea is to grow mass. Food, training, and recovery.
If that training plan isn't working try something else.
Be honest with yourself. When you put on that shirt do you look like you bodybuild?

I'll be looking into a PPL split and maybe some other options, no harm in changing things up like you said so thanks for the suggestion.
I think the main reason I don't look like I'm on AAS is because I'm in a 500cal deficit, it was a mistake to blast while not being in a surplus, I should've cut naturally before hopping on (which is why I stopped the cycle early, realized this a bit too late). Hopefully the next cycle will have a bigger impact starting at a lower bf% with bulking nutrition.
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it

 

[Excel.exe]

From what I read desensitization does occur but it also recovers.

There's also this post by @Type-IIx that I kinda referenced, although he suggests injecting biweekly compared to every day like I do.

I'm not a researcher so I'm probably misinterpreting a bunch of stuff, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think you should stick to whatever other have been using and avoiding ED injections for HCG.

 

[DECLAN]

@cinder Have you thought about hiring a coach? If you think you’ve already exhausted your ability in nutrition and lifting, yet you’re not progressing at an acceptable rate then a good coach to guide you might be worth it.

First off, it is a better investment than any steroid and whatever you learn in the process is yours forever.

 

[cinder]

@cinder Have you thought about hiring a coach? If you think you’ve already exhausted your ability in nutrition and lifting, yet you’re not progressing at an acceptable rate then a good coach to guide you might be worth it.

First off, it is a better investment than any steroid and whatever you learn in the process is yours forever.

I've been mulling over the idea for awhile now.
I'll switch up my training, go through this cut/bulk cycle and if my progress is still not great then I think hiring a coach is something I'll have to do.
Thanks for the wise suggestion

 

[cinder]

I think you should stick to whatever other have been using and avoiding ED injections for HCG.

The literature seems to point towards big infrequent doses causing more desensitization than smaller frequent doses. From what I understand there's a sweet spot where HCG can cause leydig cell recovery and regeneration and going above causes desensitization.
I rather err closer to what I understand the science to be rather than what everyone is doing, which might be a risk in itself since I'm not cracked in endocrinology.
I'll take my chances...

 

[AlexDavis43]

Good looking leg size. Agree with others, cutting should be priority.

Lift heavy shit. PPL, Westside Barbell, traditional bodybuilding split, progressive resistance training, whatever. Cardio, sleep, recover, repeat. Kcal deficit until BF goal achieved. LFG brother

 

[cinder]

Good looking leg size. Agree with others, cutting should be priority.

Lift heavy shit. PPL, Westside Barbell, traditional bodybuilding split, progressive resistance training, whatever. Cardio, sleep, recover, repeat. Kcal deficit until BF goal achieved. LFG brother

Thanks for the motivation man

 

[Type-IIx]

From what I read desensitization does occur but it also recovers.

There's also this post by @Type-IIx that I kinda referenced, although he suggests injecting biweekly compared to every day like I do.

I'm not a researcher so I'm probably misinterpreting a bunch of stuff, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

hCG desensitization is not something to worry about. There was one post claiming it occurred from a guy, with whatever motives - probably fake hCG (perhaps the compounding pharmacy he was getting it from started getting bunk shit).

This was the thread:

Long Term HCG Induced Testicular LH Desensitization

Hi there, Wanted to get some advice from those more knowledgeable in HPTA / testicular function. A quick background: Been cycling on and off for the last 5 years, with consistent HCG use of 300iu EOD to preserve fertility / prevent testicular atrophy. The reasoning behind this was two these two...

thinksteroids.com

I direct your attention to @PeterBond's post in that thread as the only one you should really weigh as credible about the topic. I think I started off believing it; but don't anymore.

 

[Type-IIx]

hCG desensitization is not something to worry about. There was one post claiming it occurred from a guy, with whatever motives - probably fake hCG (perhaps the compounding pharmacy he was getting it from started getting bunk shit).

This was the thread:

Long Term HCG Induced Testicular LH Desensitization

Hi there, Wanted to get some advice from those more knowledgeable in HPTA / testicular function. A quick background: Been cycling on and off for the last 5 years, with consistent HCG use of 300iu EOD to preserve fertility / prevent testicular atrophy. The reasoning behind this was two these two...

thinksteroids.com

I direct your attention to @PeterBond's post in that thread as the only one you should really weigh as credible about the topic. I think I started off believing it; but don't anymore.

The rationale for thrice weekly hCG administration has more to do with pulsatility of the HPG axis and MAXED (maximally effective dose) than it does desensitization.