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[BalrogRebel]

It's stronger in that it's more bioavailable and kicks in much faster, within two days in my experience - perfect for contest prep so you don't have to run oral winstrol for 2 weeks beforehand. While it passes through the liver still, iirc injectable orals do so just once instead of twice, so it should be less toxic, especially factoring in the shorter cycle duration.

Yea, that's what I thought too, out of sheer common sense. Just needed some practical confirmation. I actually feel the tabs within hours of taking them (maybe not at their strongest, but "cardio" improves pretty much immediately), and I never bothered taking something to help the liver (I do test the enzimes though, and they are mostly fine). I read about people taking liver supplements for stanozolol in this very topic, and figured I may add them too the next time I take that compound.

Mmm is not too high but 350mg dose isn't neither.

I did 146nmol/L on 500mg weekly of Hilma TestC, but people absorb test differently, so I can't be sure... this is not pure mathematics.

How long into cycle till the bloodwork?

Over a month into it, plus I was already on Test-E from another source, so the blood levels must have been high already even at t=0. I waited a month to give it the fairest shot (if anything I might have expected results skewed positively in favor of it, if not neutral), but that's as high as it went.

I know it's not purely mathematics, but with a different source, and a different esther of Test (Propionate), at a "theoretically same dose" (i.e. I injected aiming for 350 mg, but who knows if either one was properly dosed) I was at almost twice the value I got from this Test-E. I've accounted for the fact that Test-P is more bioavailable, and due to injection frequency and my policy of "better a bit more than 1 ml than a bit less" I may have injected 400-450 mg/week of Test-P back with that other source, but the numbers are still nowhere near what I thought they'd be. As you said, it's not pure mathematics, but the numbers are off enough to point it out.

 

[Connor 25257]

Yea, that's what I thought too, out of sheer common sense. Just needed some practical confirmation. I actually feel the tabs within hours of taking them (maybe not at their strongest, but "cardio" improves pretty much immediately), and I never bothered taking something to help the liver (I do test the enzimes though, and they are mostly fine). I read about people taking liver supplements for stanozolol in this very topic, and figured I may add them too the next time I take that compound.

Over a month into it, plus I was already on Test-E from another source, so the blood levels must have been high already even at t=0. I waited a month to give it the fairest shot (if anything I might have expected results skewed positively in favor of it, if not neutral), but that's as high as it went.

I know it's not purely mathematics, but with a different source, and a different esther of Test (Propionate), at a "theoretically same dose" (i.e. I injected aiming for 350 mg, but who knows if either one was properly dosed) I was at almost twice the value I got from this Test-E. I've accounted for the fact that Test-P is more bioavailable, and due to injection frequency and my policy of "better a bit more than 1 ml than a bit less" I may have injected 400-450 mg/week of Test-P back with that other source, but the numbers are still nowhere near what I thought they'd be. As you said, it's not pure mathematics, but the numbers are off enough to point it out.

If you look back at my past post on this thread; I also said that Hilma products were underdosed and just overall awful

 

[Den84]

Bloodwork on 350 mg/week of Test-E came back. Seems to be a bit weak, at least weaker than I thought it'd be (also compared to others who posted in this topic). The value was about 70 nmol/L (normal range about 9-30); I expected closer to 85.

I can at least say that the compounds they use doesn't seem to give much PIP, and seemingly no redness (just minor swelling, but that's inevitable) at all. Can't say it "flows out of the syringe" quite as smoothly as others said, but then again I am using a thin needle in the first place.

Also tried their "aromasin" knockoff, and it kept estrogen levels down in the normal range with 12.5 mg every other day (about 25 pg/ml, in a reference range of 0-40), so that seems to be good enough as well. I do aromatize heavily on my own.

I'll be trying the injectable stanazolol from them too. Speaking of which, I have a couple of questions: in terms of potency, mg per mg, is it as strong as an oral stanazolol? And in terms of liver toxicity?

70 nmol = 22 ng/ml . This value is good considering your weekly dosage. was the blood collected 48 hours after the last inj? how many injections do you do per week?

Regarding stano inj, in my opinion is more potent than Stano tabs... for my body is sufficient 150/200 mg a week . Stano tabs for me works little... regarding liver toxicity I didn't find much difference...

 

[BalrogRebel]

70 nmol = 22 ng/ml . This value is good considering your weekly dosage. was the blood collected 48 hours after the last inj? how many injections do you do per week?

Regarding stano inj, in my opinion is more potent than Stano tabs... for my body is sufficient 150/200 mg a week . Stano tabs for me works little... regarding liver toxicity I didn't find much difference...

Test done three days after the last injection, which was actually 1.2 ml (250 mg/ml) now that I checked. Injections every 5 days, 1-1.2 ml.

So 125 mg/week is a high-end TRT dosage, presumably near the max 30 nmol/L value of the range of reference. How can 350 mg/week, nearly three times that amount, be barely over twice that much?

Plus, I've confronted the values with those from other members (I think it was actually yours, but I'd have to check to be sure), and my past experience. As I said, the numbers seem too far off, below the lowest of my expectations (and even worse than I thought yesterday now that I checked and was already at 1.2 ml for the two weeks/three injections prior to the bloodwork).

 

[Den84]

Test done three days after the last injection, which was actually 1.2 ml (250 mg/ml) now that I checked. Injections every 5 days, 1-1.2 ml.

So 125 mg/week is a high-end TRT dosage, presumably near the max 30 nmol/L value of the range of reference. How can 350 mg/week, nearly three times that amount, be barely over twice that much?

Plus, I've confronted the values with those from other members (I think it was actually yours, but I'd have to check to be sure), and my past experience. As I said, the numbers seem too far off, below the lowest of my expectations (and even worse than I thought yesterday now that I checked and was already at 1.2 ml for the two weeks/three injections prior to the bloodwork).

please reason with values in units of measurement ng / ml or ng / dl that are the usual unit of measure in the most country.

Regarding your TT value after your bloodwork:

1- usual meso bloodwork protocol expected that the blood drawing must be done after 48 hours , after the last inj; because has been observed that Test E have the maximum peak in the blood, 48 hours after the last injection. So if you would have done drawing after 48 hours surely you would have gotten some units more (2 or 3 ng ml more I think)

2- another time , usual meso protocol expected that bloowork must be done after 6 full week of use, because enantate ester need more of 3/4 week to stabilize in the blood. You did bloodwork just after 2 week of use , just after three injections... and surely if you would have waited at least 4/5 weeks you would got 2 or 3 ng ml more.

So whit this your bloodwork “hurt” you lost as minimum 4/5 ng ml, in my opinion. But I’ m curios to see also the opinion of others veteran members as @MisterSuperGod .

Regarding me, unfortunately I never overpassed 30 ng/ml with 500 mg/week of test. I'm not a good metabolizer, I know. But some of my friends with 500 mg/ml overpass 40 ng/ml... remember, that to get fucking high values, you have to be, first of all, an excellent metabolizer.

 

[BalrogRebel]

please reason with values in units of measurement ng / ml or ng / dl that are the usual unit of measure in the most country.

I gave the values on the blood report, to avoid any possible mistake due to incorrect conversion of the values. I must be in one of the (few?) countries where it's not the default.

1- usual meso bloodwork protocol expected that the blood drawing must be done after 48 hours

Didn't know this would have an impact, especially on an esther like enanthate, so that's something new I learned, thanks.

2- another time , usual meso protocol expected that bloowork must be done after 6 full week of use, because enantate ester need more of 3/4 week to stabilize in the blood. You did bloodwork just after 2 week of use , just after three injections...

Let me be honest, I personally don't really care about "meso's protocol" (aside from having a fair discussion). I didn't come here as an apostle to give the objective truth regarding Hilma's products. I just said what my experience with it was.

But, just to be clear, I did not do bloodwork after two weeks. I was already on Test-E (someone else's), at those same dosages (350 mg/week), before switching over to Hilma's. Then I was on Hilma's Test-E for 35 days before the blood drawing (just checked the exact date), which is 7 Hilma injections; of those 7, the first 4 were 1 ml (250 mg), and the last 3 were 1.2 ml (300 ml).

Anyway, it was not my intention to start a long discussion, or argument, for or against anyone or anyone's products. I just wanted to report my experience so far, and see if there was any justification for it. Maybe you are right, I just metabolize the enanthate esther really bad, whereas I was doing far better with the propionate one. Too bad the latter one requires to pin every other day. Maybe I'll have better luck with cypionate next time I try and test it.

 

[MadBret]

Let me be honest, I personally don't really care about "meso's protocol" (aside from having a fair discussion). I didn't come here as an apostle to give the objective truth regarding Hilma's product

The reason a protocol exists is to have an accurate comparison. If you are taking multiple shots per week, your peak levels will be lower than if only taking one shot once per week. Also, the timing of the blood work matters for measuring peak levels. And prop is a little bit more potent mg per mg compared to enathate. If you do blood work 2 days after a shot and then again, 7 days after a shot, your numbers will obviously be different. Ultimately, blood tests are subjective and having the product tested would be a better way to know for sure if they are underdosed or not. @Connor 25257 cried like a little bitch about Hilma being bunk but refused to have testing or bloods done and has proven himself to be borderline retarded. If you are concerned, have it tested. Having the compound tested would be far more helpful to the community than following your own protocol or Conner's feels.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

please reason with values in units of measurement ng / ml or ng / dl that are the usual unit of measure in the most country.

Regarding your TT value after your bloodwork:

1- usual meso bloodwork protocol expected that the blood drawing must be done after 48 hours , after the last inj; because has been observed that Test E have the maximum peak in the blood, 48 hours after the last injection. So if you would have done drawing after 48 hours surely you would have gotten some units more (2 or 3 ng ml more I think)

2- another time , usual meso protocol expected that bloowork must be done after 6 full week of use, because enantate ester need more of 3/4 week to stabilize in the blood. You did bloodwork just after 2 week of use , just after three injections... and surely if you would have waited at least 4/5 weeks you would got 2 or 3 ng ml more.

So whit this your bloodwork “hurt” you lost as minimum 4/5 ng ml, in my opinion. But I’ m curios to see also the opinion of others veteran members as @MisterSuperGod .

Regarding me, unfortunately I never overpassed 30 ng/ml with 500 mg/week of test. I'm not a good metabolizer, I know. But some of my friends with 500 mg/ml overpass 40 ng/ml... remember, that to get fucking high values, you have to be, first of all, an excellent metabolizer.

Individual TT values between two strangers isn't really something that can be compared.

Blood work is a poor way of determining proper dosage, IMO, unless the user has their own stringent testing protocol set up where all controllable variables are exactly the same each and every time.

Then there's the absence of prescribed dosage blood work. Comparing TT values from one UGL to the next makes things even more complicated, as you can't be sure if either are dosed correctly without having both of them tested prior to use.

 

[Connor 25257]

The reason a protocol exists is to have an accurate comparison. If you are taking multiple shots per week, your peak levels will be lower than if only taking one shot once per week. Also, the timing of the blood work matters for measuring peak levels. And prop is a little bit more potent mg per mg compared to enathate. If you do blood work 2 days after a shot and then again, 7 days after a shot, your numbers will obviously be different. Ultimately, blood tests are subjective and having the product tested would be a better way to know for sure if they are underdosed or not. @Connor 25257 cried like a little bitch about Hilma being bunk but refused to have testing or bloods done and has proven himself to be borderline retarded. If you are concerned, have it tested. Having the compound tested would be far more helpful to the community than following your own protocol or Conner's feels.

Because it is bunk lmfao, you can see that from the comment that the user made. Obviously you’ll deny it until your blue in the face, because you can’t admit that i was right

 

[MadBret]

Because it is bunk lmfao, you can see that from the comment that the user made. Obviously you’ll deny it until your blue in the face, because you can’t admit that i was right

Maybe it was/is bunk. More members have had good experiences though. If you would have done anything to back up your claims, you wouldn't have been berated for 20 plus pages and dubbed Connor the Retard. But I digress...

 

[wildfuchs]

Maybe it was/is bunk. More members have had good experiences though. If you would have done anything to back up your claims, you wouldn't have been berated for 20 plus pages and dubbed Connor the Retard. But I digress...

Just put him on ignore next to Tony like most have - similar to Meso's high standards on lab testing gear for quality, these retards should have been been lab tested for bunk/underdosed chromosome count.

Regarding bloodwork on Hilma's test E & C, I've several tests of myself and friends which average out to a 5-6 x multiplier but more importantly, the countless lab tests of Hilma's gear he posted throughout the thread always showed everything to be correctly dosed, and I'd value those over bloodwork anyday as there are no confounding variables involved.

 

[BalrogRebel]

The reason a protocol exists is to have an accurate comparison.

Ultimately, blood tests are subjective and having the product tested would be a better way to know for sure if they are underdosed or not. If you are concerned, have it tested. Having the compound tested would be far more helpful to the community than following your own protocol.

Individual TT values between two strangers isn't really something that can be compared.

Blood work is a poor way of determining proper dosage, IMO, unless the user has their own stringent testing protocol set up where all controllable variables are exactly the same each and every time.

Yea, that's what I meant when I said I didn't care much for the meso protocols. I probably didn't express myself correctly earlier. What I meant to say is that I did the bloodwork for myself, not for the purpose of discussing this particular UGL product, so it wasn't my intention to have it standardized for the sake of sharing it with this community. Rather, I did the bloodwork to check my situation, then I thought I'd share -- maybe someone would find the info useful, maybe not.

At the very least my blood report can confirm it's not "bunk gear". Maybe a bit underdosed, maybe not; the facts are what they are, everyone can draw their conclusions as they see fit.

That being said, I will try to do the next round of exams by meso standards. But, again, mostly because I want to know what I got and where I'm at. If someone else can benefit from the information I shared, then all the better.

 

[SwoleIsTheGoal]

Any issues with German customs in the last month?

 

[genko12]

Any issues with German customs in the last month?

yeah i think so. they seizured some things. something is wrong

 

[RoidTeam - EU Distributor]

yeah i think so. they seizured some things. something is wrong

Everything reaches okay.

 

[Ary4n]

Hi guys.

Has anyone tried Hilma’s anavar? If yes, would you vouch for it?

Thanks a lot!

 

[wildfuchs]

Hi guys.

Has anyone tried Hilma’s anavar? If yes, would you vouch for it?

Thanks a lot!

the girls I know are having great results on it (the primo as well)

 

[Fiend77]

Used only your Test En (lots of it, actually), legit stuff.

 

[Eoghan]

Current bloods from 6 weeks into test enth 500mg with a 35mg dbol kick for first 3 weeks.

Sufferd gyno issue around week 4 dosed aromasin 12.5mg e3 days from week 4 to test date of which I've upped to 12.5eod.

test was taken on Thursday morning, last shot 5pm the Monday before. Ranges came back at
52.01 nmol/L testesosterone
35 nmol/L SHBG
138 pmol/L oestridal
Any imput/advice would be fantastic

 

[wildfuchs]

Current bloods from 6 weeks into test enth 500mg with a 35mg dbol kick for first 3 weeks.

Sufferd gyno issue around week 4 dosed aromasin 12.5mg e3 days from week 4 to test date of which I've upped to 12.5eod.

test was taken on Thursday morning, last shot 5pm the Monday before. Ranges came back at
52.01 nmol/L testesosterone
35 nmol/L SHBG
138 pmol/L oestridal
Any imput/advice would be fantastic

what language are testesosterone & oestridal, and what are the respective reference ranges given on your bloodwork?