Sad, just look at Meso

Yes and no. First, in the '75 olympia, Arnold was 240-245.

Yes, at 5'8" 190 is good...if you're RIPPED and I do mean 6% or less. Maybe as high as 8%, but that's beginning to push it.

I'm pretty sure Ronin is only like 190lbs, but he looks fucking AWESOME because he routinely walks at sub-6%.
 
Grizzly said:
Yes and no. First, in the '75 olympia, Arnold was 240-245.

Yes, at 5'8" 190 is good...if you're RIPPED and I do mean 6% or less. Maybe as high as 8%, but that's beginning to push it.

I'm pretty sure Ronin is only like 190lbs, but he looks fucking AWESOME because he routinely walks at sub-6%.

I thought he was closer to 230 also. I'm going to watch the new Pumping Iron today, can't wait.
 
I don't think so. Not unless he put on 40lbs in the last 6 months. Actually, he might be 210. Maybe pot really does have long term memory effects because I'm not sure anymore. Damn you!
 
from what Ive heard, I Dont think Arnold was ever that heavy, except maybe offseason.
 
He had to have been. With his height and conditioning, he had to have been that heavy. It's not like a 6'2" guy can pull off that physique at 215.
 
I just remember reading,in Mentzers book,about Arnold not being able to reach his personal best of 235lbs,during one training year. I believe he was 225 that year. He still looked great,no doubt. Grizz,i think you hold very high standards of people on this board. I don't think half the people here will ever compete in BBing. I think alot of people here may just be interested in keeping in shape,and not going for all out muscular development. All of us have earned some bragging rights,some(like yourself)more than others but to each their own. I,however,agree with you about getting some natural time in before turning to AAS. I probably don't read all the crazy posts of 170lb guys asking for good cycles,maybe i'd be singing a different tune,if i did :)
 
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Grizzly said:
He had to have been. With his height and conditioning, he had to have been that heavy. It's not like a 6'2" guy can pull off that physique at 215.
I thought he should have been heavier too,by the look of him.
 
MANWHORE said:
I thought he should have been heavier too,by the look of him.

His heaviest ever would have been during training for the 80 Olympia...he weighed 242.
 
God i must me a boring son of a bitch...How the hell can you guys have so many pots....Do you work have a wife and kids.....I work, then coach, then go home and beat up on my 4 kids....I barely have enough time to come check things out
 
I don't follow Pro BBers,so correct me if i'm wrong,but it just seems crazy that Dorian(not any taller than Arnold)weighed in at 265 with 4%bf. Arnold looked so damn big,at his best,but how does he look up against Dorian or other Pros after him
 
peytonpaw said:
God i must me a boring son of a bitch...How the hell can you guys have so many pots....Do you work have a wife and kids.....I work, then coach, then go home and beat up on my 4 kids....I barely have enough time to come check things out
I'm only working 2-3 days/week for another couple weeks,so i'm home all day. I should be cleaning now,or my wife is gonna kill me when she gets home :)
 
MANWHORE said:
I don't follow Pro BBers,so correct me if i'm wrong,but it just seems crazy that Dorian(not any taller than Arnold)weighed in at 265 with 4%bf. Arnold looked so damn big,at his best,but how does he look up against Dorian or other Pros after him
Arnold would look small vs Dorian or Ronnie.
 
Yes, but his legs weren't THAT small, Bob.

Manwhore- Yes, I guess I do have relatively high standards. It's not that I expect everyone to compete, I just don't understand why a guy who is far from what he could achieve naturally would want to juice.

In most cases, their training is horrendous(look at a lot of the leg routines, or lack thereof) and their diets are even worse. "I'm a hardgainer. I've been lifting for 2 years and I've been 175lbs the whole time." That right there says they don't eat enough to grow. If you don't gain a MINIMUM of 1lb/month, then you are simply not eating enough to sustain any growth. End of story. If you're eating enough, you'll at least get fatter.

Furthermore, it's because of these guys that juice gets the reputation that it does. Because of their poor training and nutrition, they have never made any gains. They add in some AAS, which can make up for these factors when at their stage of development, and BAM they gain 15lbs.

They never made any gains before juice. Obviously, juice is "muscle in a bottle." Thus, the 240lb ripped up monster at the gym who writes down everything he eats, doesn't party, has read multiple texts on how to train, etc. is simply that big because he does more juice. If they gained 15lbs off of 500mg test/wk, then that guy, who is 60lbs heavier, must be using 2 grams or more a week.

That's total bullshit and I hate it. I hear it all the time. I try and help guys out when I hear their horseshit 300mg/deca/wk cycles and they tell me that, since their small, they don't need as much as me. This is partially true, but I'm only running 500mg test/wk.

Look at Hogg. I'm sure he's the butt of these accusations. Last time he posted his cycle, it was something like 300mg test/wk, 300mg deca/wk, 300mg EQ/wk and he's one of those 230lb monsters.

Clearly, juice, and lots of it, is not the answer to most people's trainig woes.
 
Grizzly said:
Yes, but his legs weren't THAT small, Bob.

Manwhore- Yes, I guess I do have relatively high standards. It's not that I expect everyone to compete, I just don't understand why a guy who is far from what he could achieve naturally would want to juice.

In most cases, their training is horrendous(look at a lot of the leg routines, or lack thereof) and their diets are even worse. "I'm a hardgainer. I've been lifting for 2 years and I've been 175lbs the whole time." That right there says they don't eat enough to grow. If you don't gain a MINIMUM of 1lb/month, then you are simply not eating enough to sustain any growth. End of story. If you're eating enough, you'll at least get fatter.

Furthermore, it's because of these guys that juice gets the reputation that it does. Because of their poor training and nutrition, they have never made any gains. They add in some AAS, which can make up for these factors when at their stage of development, and BAM they gain 15lbs.

They never made any gains before juice. Obviously, juice is "muscle in a bottle." Thus, the 240lb ripped up monster at the gym who writes down everything he eats, doesn't party, has read multiple texts on how to train, etc. is simply that big because he does more juice. If they gained 15lbs off of 500mg test/wk, then that guy, who is 60lbs heavier, must be using 2 grams or more a week.

That's total bullshit and I hate it. I hear it all the time. I try and help guys out when I hear their horseshit 300mg/deca/wk cycles and they tell me that, since their small, they don't need as much as me. This is partially true, but I'm only running 500mg test/wk.

Look at Hogg. I'm sure he's the butt of these accusations. Last time he posted his cycle, it was something like 300mg test/wk, 300mg deca/wk, 300mg EQ/wk and he's one of those 230lb monsters.

Clearly, juice, and lots of it, is not the answer to most people's trainig woes.

I really appreciated that post Grizz. I'm a true hardgainer(I think), I've been lifting seriously for about 1 year. I'm 6'1" and have not been able to break the 200# yet. My body has very little "natural" muscle, by natural I mean by birth, we've all seen guys who walk into the gym and throw some weights around for an hour a week and look great. I'm not that lucky. I've worked and eaten my ass off for every #on my scrawny frame. I came here because I was interested in juice. After reading the posts from a lot of guys like you I think I'll stick to apple for another year.

Thanks
 
Hey, I did something good. :D LOL

CyniQ- Yeah, dude, just keep banging away at it. It can get frustrating, but you can do it. You've definitely come to the right place. There are plenty of boards on the net where you can get good AAS advice, but THIS board is the only place you can get the kind of nutrition and training advice that you can.

The nutrition forum is a great source of info and one of the mods is Lyle McDonald. Hey, free advice from a guy who and does charge people for it! Yeah!

The training forum is full of GREAT posts and knowledgeable people. Again, it's moderated by Bryan Haycock. Cool, more free advice from a guy who usually charges people.

You simply can't beat it. Not even with a stick. :)
 
Grizzly said:
Yes, but his legs weren't THAT small, Bob.

Manwhore- Yes, I guess I do have relatively high standards. It's not that I expect everyone to compete, I just don't understand why a guy who is far from what he could achieve naturally would want to juice.

In most cases, their training is horrendous(look at a lot of the leg routines, or lack thereof) and their diets are even worse. "I'm a hardgainer. I've been lifting for 2 years and I've been 175lbs the whole time." That right there says they don't eat enough to grow. If you don't gain a MINIMUM of 1lb/month, then you are simply not eating enough to sustain any growth. End of story. If you're eating enough, you'll at least get fatter.

Furthermore, it's because of these guys that juice gets the reputation that it does. Because of their poor training and nutrition, they have never made any gains. They add in some AAS, which can make up for these factors when at their stage of development, and BAM they gain 15lbs.

They never made any gains before juice. Obviously, juice is "muscle in a bottle." Thus, the 240lb ripped up monster at the gym who writes down everything he eats, doesn't party, has read multiple texts on how to train, etc. is simply that big because he does more juice. If they gained 15lbs off of 500mg test/wk, then that guy, who is 60lbs heavier, must be using 2 grams or more a week.

That's total bullshit and I hate it. I hear it all the time. I try and help guys out when I hear their horseshit 300mg/deca/wk cycles and they tell me that, since their small, they don't need as much as me. This is partially true, but I'm only running 500mg test/wk.

Look at Hogg. I'm sure he's the butt of these accusations. Last time he posted his cycle, it was something like 300mg test/wk, 300mg deca/wk, 300mg EQ/wk and he's one of those 230lb monsters.

Clearly, juice, and lots of it, is not the answer to most people's trainig woes.
I agree :-)
 
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