Sex Hormone Binding Globulin [SHBG]

[James23]

I think you are confusing me for someone else. I resistance train with heavy lifts and low repetitions three times per week. Starting this year only, I began training for a 5K, including running 3 miles, 1 to 2 times per week on non-lifting days. I eat 3,000 calories per day. Exercise has not affected any symptoms positively or negatively. My quads are my strongest muscle. I can squat 240 lb.

Impotence and hormonal imbalances have remained identical wether I am completely unfit and sedentary or of average fitness.

 

[Stinefeller]

Anybody with low SHBG also have body odor issues?

A few men, myself included, get zero-to-no body odor that directly correlates with the periods of impotence. Normal masculine musk reverts to a pre-pubescent lack of odor, no matter how much sweat is produced or how long it is left to stay.

Since apocrine (fatty) sweat is directly mediated by androgen receptor activity, it seems that this would be a fair indicator of overall androgenic signaling.

I too sweat easily and profusely when I get warm. I think that's fairly common for us hypo's, irrespective of SHBG level. The sweat doesn't smell as much as it could, I guess, but my girlfriend definitely complains of my smell if I skip a day in the shower. Also, after taking Nolvadex for a while (see my thread), I stink a lot more than I used to. So yes, from my pov sweat smell is related to hormone levels.

 

[BBC3]

Oh Wait. Yur right... I'm confusing you with the other James which is passionate about SHBG....! LOL

More REALISTICALLY, the other James23 "inner self" which seems to have a fondness in "freshening perspective" SIMILAR to MINE... LOL (which is not a bad thing)

All joking aside (Right) - I DO think that I am thinking of the SAME ONE. However, it IS possible that I got in an interaction with another James around here who seemed to have PRESENTED a more "Life Intensive" approach to strict dieting, and had a Semi-Past "Quasi-Perversion" with HEAVY Aerobic type training to excess with emphasis on minimization of caloric intake as more of an apparent life philosophy/ WHICH - He also seemed to be having some sort of INTERNAL STRUGGLE with as a "Cross Road of Interest/AVG Value/Little chance of selecting a direction unsimilar to past...

SO I WILL LOOK BACK NOW AND SEE... The POINT is that it will NOT BE to Criticize YOU if so, but (1) to make sure I'm sane, or if (2) I am that sloppy with my actions today, and (3) Point out the DIFFERENCE in your PRESENTATION TODAY for YOUR NOTIFICATION, and (4) ADMIT that, IF... You ARE HIM. I am that SAME KIND OF PERSON, and there is NOTHING wrong with changing positions MILDLY through LIFE while AS LONG AS (learning to maintain FAIR ACKNOWLEDGEMENT as a process of healthy learning by AWARENESS....

I think you are confusing me for someone else. I resistance train with heavy lifts and low repetitions three times per week. Starting this year only, I began training for a 5K, including running 3 miles, 1 to 2 times per week on non-lifting days. I eat 3,000 calories per day. Exercise has not affected any symptoms positively or negatively. My quads are my strongest muscle. I can squat 240 lb.

Impotence and hormonal imbalances have remained identical wether I am completely unfit and sedentary or of average fitness.

 

[hardrlz]

Guys what do you think of the fourth post in this thread http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?18795-Low-SHBG.-Bad-for-TRT "One case I had in order to raise SHBG I had to correct the gut in order for proper carbohydrate metabolism which then resolved the insulin resistance. In the process even on thyroid did not resolve it, but correcting the other issues did. It was comprehensive approach which needed to be done from both angles (paleodiet along with healing the GI tract) in order to get the desired effect"

What could he possibly mean by healing the GI tract except the paleo diet ?

 

[Dr JIM]

What does he mean?

I think that's when he pulls out the "gutted" Voodoo Doll !

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Guys what do you think of the fourth post in this thread http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?18795-Low-SHBG.-Bad-for-TRT "One case I had in order to raise SHBG I had to correct the gut in order for proper carbohydrate metabolism which then resolved the insulin resistance. In the process even on thyroid did not resolve it, but correcting the other issues did. It was comprehensive approach which needed to be done from both angles (paleodiet along with healing the GI tract) in order to get the desired effect"

What could he possibly mean by healing the GI tract except the paleo diet ?

hardasnails1973

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4TOfAlVWRU]Laughing birds - YouTube[/ame]

 

[BBC3]

I WOULD HAVE TO SAY.... That YOU are a SUBVERT from that site and TRYING to DRAG OVER the traffic from this site COME To WITNESS the SUPERIOR INTELLECT...

But thats just ME... ME..... ME........!

THinkin aloud...

Guys what do you think of the fourth post in this thread http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?18795-Low-SHBG.-Bad-for-TRT "One case I had in order to raise SHBG I had to correct the gut in order for proper carbohydrate metabolism which then resolved the insulin resistance. In the process even on thyroid did not resolve it, but correcting the other issues did. It was comprehensive approach which needed to be done from both angles (paleodiet along with healing the GI tract) in order to get the desired effect"

What could he possibly mean by healing the GI tract except the paleo diet ?

 

[James23]

I spoke with a bozo-doctor that runs an anti-aging clinic. He is willing to prescribe testosterone propionate. I do not suspect that it will work for low SHBG men, but I am willing to play guinea pig.

A quote from an article about low SHBG.

"The same study boosted men's testosteorne much more significantly with testosterone undecanoate and actually found that the particpants' SHBG rose. Thus in this case, the testosterone actually helped. Why did the undecanoate do the trick where the gel did not? The reason is probably the fact that the undecanoate gave over a 100% increase in testosterone and testeosterone lowers insulin."

Eur J Endocrinol, Aug 1 2003, 149:145-152, "The associations of age, lifestyle factors and chronic disease with testosterone in men: the Tromso Study"

 

[James23]

Sex-hormone-binding globulin deficiency. [Lancet. 1982] - PubMed - NCBI

A case report of "familial low SHBG." Text is not available, but it's conclusions are referenced within this text:

Human sex hormone–binding globulin variants associated with hyperandrogenism and ovarian dysfunction

 

[James23]

Oleic acid increases hepatic sex hormone b... [Mol Nutr Food Res. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract

SCOPE:
Low circulating sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) is an independent risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Mediterranean diet has been associated with a decreased risk of cardiovascular disease. We aimed to test the hypothesis that the increase of circulating MUFA associated with olive oil consumption (primary fat source in Mediterranean diet) increases SHBG serum levels.

METHODS AND RESULTS:
A total of 315 men were included. In these patients, nutrition data and plasma samples for SHBG assessment were obtained. In vitro studies to examine the effects of oleic and linoleic acid on SHBG production using HepG2 cells were performed. We provided evidence that SHBG serum levels were significantly higher in subjects using olive oil for cooking in comparison with subjects using sunflower oil. The SHBG levels correlated positively with MUFA (p < 0.001) and negatively with saturated fatty acids (p = 0.003). In the multiple regression analysis, MUFA were independently associated with SHBG levels and accounted for the 20.4% of SHBG variance. In vitro studies revealed that oleoyl-CoA increases SHBG production by downregulating PPAR-? levels in HepG2 cells.

CONCLUSION:
Olive oil consumption is associated with elevated SHBG serum levels. PPAR-? downregulation induced by oleoyl-CoA is an important underlying mechanism of such regulation.

 

[hardrlz]

If you are gonna try propionate imo first try subQ small dose that resembles the natural human production. Keep us updated

 

[Blazerone]

If you are gonna try propionate imo first try subQ small dose that resembles the natural human production. Keep us updated

I will never do prop subQ abdomen again. It took weeks for the lumps to dissipate. Now don't get me wrong I can't live without my daily prop but stick with deep IM buttocks or shallow IM thigh or delts.

 

[Blazerone]

Well you know where I stand on this matter. Propionate was a night and day difference for this low shbg man. Love it.
Good Luck James!

I spoke with a bozo-doctor that runs an anti-aging clinic. He is willing to prescribe testosterone propionate. I do not suspect that it will work for low SHBG men, but I am willing to play guinea pig.

A quote from an article about low SHBG.



Eur J Endocrinol, Aug 1 2003, 149:145-152, "The associations of age, lifestyle factors and chronic disease with testosterone in men: the Tromso Study"

 

[lxm]

My HPTA has now fully recovered since coming off 7 months of TRT. I think it was around 13 weeks.

Consultant wanted to re-start the investigation( if any ) at baseline blood numbers...

75% of the blood results were restricted, but I got access to the basics ;

Serum test : 9.4nmol (8.6-28.8)
SHBG : 8nmol (17-45)**
E2 : 276pmol (40-150)**
LH : 6.2 ( 1-9)
FSH : 5.8 (1-8)

SHBG is down furthermore 12.7(pre trt) 12(intra trt) 11.7(post trt) 8(current)

Still feeling rubbish, although allot better than the 10 week period where I came off TRT cold turkey.

I think after the next consultation I'm going to leave it at that - I've taken heed of advice here and I don't want to be chasing ghosts for years and years. I need to bite the bullet and get on with life...

Consultant didn't rule out trying other trt methods (gel & nebido) but to be honest I feel better being off TRT than I felt being on during my trial... TRT was far too up and down of feeling good, feeling bad and feeling strange and wired.... at least off TRT I feel stable.... albeit trashy.

E2 & SHGB are the only two (sex) hormones that are out of range, I've not had results of everything else but Im going to combat these with lifestyle change (again) and see if it makes any difference, albeit the last year period of change didn't abolish symptoms or blood numbers... Lucky second time hopefuly.

I have seen a few guys on other sites that have taken AI's (arimidex) as a single therapy method on its own with positive results on testosterone, and obviously oestrogen - T levels gone from 170 ng dl to 650 ng dl.

Does anyone have any opinions on this idea ?

 

[James23]

I think it is worth a shot, without a doubt.

Since SHBG is the primary mediator of the free to bound ratio of androgens, normal levels of testosterone result in excessive free testosterone and therefore excessive aromatization to estrogen. To make matters worse, SHBG is also the primary mediator of the free to bound ratio of estrogens. Typically, both estradiol and free estradiol will be elevated.

For those of us with secondary hypogonadism, our low-normal LH is indicative of suppression. Estrogen is the primary negative feedback signal for the male HTPA in terms of LH release:

Although the concentration of estradiol in the blood of men is relatively low compared with testosterone, it is a much more potent inhibitor of LH and FSH secretion (approximately 1000-fold).

[PATHOPHYSIOLOGY COURSE - ENDOCRINE MODULE
Male Gonadal Disorders
(Testicular Disorders & Clinical Conferences)
Dale Childress, MD]

This is why the disruption of the FT/T and thus E/T (and FE/E) ratios due to impaired SHBG expression is theorized to be causative for certain cases of secondary hypogonadism.

We can prove this with a SERM like clomiphene citrate (CC.) CC acts to "hide" a portion of estrogen from the hypothalamus. Within one week of daily CC administration, TT production will become normal. The low LH pulse will be cured. It's as simple as that. Hiding the excess estrogen cures the secondary hypogonadism. Of course, with low SHBG, the excess estrogen may be hidden from the hypothalamus, but it is not hidden from the brain, breast tissue, etc. Thus, the imbalance remains.

Rather than hide estrogen, an AI like anastrozole could potentially boost LH back to normal just as we see with CC, and also bring estrogens back to normal. It's not a "cure", however, since the free to bound ratio of estrogens will still be skewed, and T will continue to suffer the excessive free fraction and accelerated metabolic clearance. Nothing will address the fraction/clearance issue other than SHBG itself.

Regardless, the theory that it can correct a portion of the imbalance is sound and I believe it is worth trying.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Can you provide a cite for the statement, "Although the concentration of estradiol in the blood of men is relatively low compared with testosterone, it is a much more potent inhibitor of LH and FSH secretion (approximately 1000-fold)."

TY

 

[James23]

Can you provide a cite for the statement, "Although the concentration of estradiol in the blood of men is relatively low compared with testosterone, it is a much more potent inhibitor of LH and FSH secretion (approximately 1000-fold)."

TY

The quote is from Dr. Jeffrey Gingrich, M.D. from his coursework on male gonadal disorders, available here:

http://www.uthsc.edu/endocrinology/documents/ch08-syllabus-Childress.pdf

Page 5, section: D. Feedback Control of Gonadotropins

 

[idmd]

The quote is from Dr. Jeffrey Gingrich, M.D. from his coursework on male gonadal disorders, available here:



http://www.uthsc.edu/endocrinology/documents/ch08-syllabus-Childress.pdf



Page 5, section: D. Feedback Control of Gonadotropins

Ha! I have NO dog in this fight but a course syllabus?! At least the profs at my school provided references....lol

 

[Dr JIM]

U just won't cease this garbage will U James.

Shit there are so many errors or idiotic suppositions in your discussion James I won't waste my time commenting, lol

Oh shit just one comment will suffice.

You suggest a lowered E-2 is a much stronger stimulus for altering LH production than is TT.

BULLSHIT. Both TT and E-2 are operate in TANDEM to effect LH levels.

While E-2 becomes more relevant when E-2 levels fall, TT becomes more important as TT levels climb.

However it's not one or another being the dominant HTPA meditator of LH levels.

Oh and I like the fact your included new terminology in this particular discussion, especially one that can't be MEASURED objectively like "SHBG expression".

Finally ALBUMIN AND SHBG are both critical sex hormone binding proteins, an alteration in either will impact both androgen and estrogen levels. Consequently when SHBG falls, albumin compensates with minimal difficulty which is why FTT only RARELY exceeds 3-4% in spite of a patients SHBG level.

Finally because TT and E-2 are bound to SHBG in a ratio of roughly 100:1 any change in the SHBG level
does NOT effect the TT:E-2 ratio as you have said on multiple occasions. (That's your science "lesson" so we will discuss that in more detail later)

But once again since you were WRONG previously it's not to surprising your wrong once AGAIN!

Hey what stupid blog did you plagiarize on this occasion for your lame Meso reply.

Now for your bimonthly lesson from that favorite "dinosaur" JIM!

Google Aromatase enzymatic activity as it is related to Michael Mendelson Kinetics.

WHY? Because you continue to prop some foolish notion that a lower SHBG will not only raise freeTT (true) but will also raise fE-2 true.

However you further proclaim increased aromatase activity is responsible for the fTT and fE-2 elevations but also assert, (by some unknown mechanism) a MORE marked elevation of E-2 occurs compared to TT, when SHBG is "low".
The net effect according to James science doctrine (unpublished data, theories, citations and research etc) is an lowered TT:E-2 ratio, NOT! (Must be more of your unpublished data or research)


disproportionate manner compa

So enlighten me James how does a lower SHBG effect aromatase activity? Hmm are you referring to that "SHBG expression" you mentioned earlier?

Now James if that was a legit yet undiscovered OPINION your words could/would be more than just hot air.
However that's NOT the case because AROMATASE MM kinetics dictate otherwise!

 

[James23]

Ha! I have NO dog in this fight but a course syllabus?! At least the profs at my school provided references....lol

What you've said is indecipherable, but I presume you are suggesting that my passing reference is the only reference. Forgive me, however, if I've underestimated you.

If you want to argue against something that is generally known as fact, it is up to you to provide counter evidence. Estradiol is the primary feedback mechanism for pituitary expression of LH. That is why SERMs work to increase T.

"LH is released at the pituitary gland, and is controlled by pulses of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). When T levels are low, GnRH is released by the hypothalamus, stimulating the pituitary gland to release LH.[10] As the levels of T increase, it will act on the hypothalamus and pituitary through a negative feedback loop and inhibit the release of GnRH and LH consequently.[11] However, T must first be aromatized into Estradiol (E2) in order to inhibit LH. E2 decreases pulse amplitude and responsiveness to GnRH from the hypothalamus onto the pituitary."

See:
press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2007-2156?journalCode=jcem

I'm not going to waste hours aggregating studies to educate two trolls about the basics of the male HPTA. In a typical infantile Dr. Dino signoff... I'll leave you with the last "lol"