SHBG and endurance sports

[Alyk89]

Hey all,

Does anyone know if there is research or anecdotal evidence to connect high SHBG and endurance sports?

I fought competitively for a long time, a few years back I hung up the gloves however I have kept running in my workout regime. For the last couple of years I've felt my hormones were in the dumpster from years of overtraining, after running blood tests over the last few years, it turns out they were.

I've got my total test up to 1200 and my estrogen under control through a bit of enclomiphene and anastrozole however my SHBG despite doing a million and one things has stayed in the 65-100 nmol. The only time I got my free test above 120 pg/ml has been when I knocked it off with the running and cut it down to maybe 15 miles a week. I was able to get my free test up to 161 pg/ml. Cranked up the mileage to 30-40 back to 110 pgml.

Is this normal for other runners? Do folks just inject test to keep the SHBG on the lower side?

 

[I6JQdr06]

I try not to look too deeply into the numbers for a specific reason. There are too many variables to tweak and it becomes maddening.

My strategy is to take just enough testosterone per week to enhance recovery. I do this largely by feel and only use bloods to makes sure my estrogen control is sufficient (for the sake of my erections), and that I don’t have any health related biomarkers way out of range (lipids, liver, kidney, blood stuff).

Then on top of weekly testosterone dose I’ll cycle something like Masteron or Anavar now and then to achieve specific training goals.

This probably doesn’t answer your question at all but I suppose I’m saying that you can fiddle too much, and the numbers often don’t translate into results anyway

 

[Alyk89]

Any reason why you would use masteron over anavar?

 

[I6JQdr06]

Personally: I find orals a drag. Masteron seems to give me loads of drive and neuromuscular enhancement without weight gain.

 

[UncleBuns]

Hey all,

Does anyone know if there is research or anecdotal evidence to connect high SHBG and endurance sports?

I fought competitively for a long time, a few years back I hung up the gloves however I have kept running in my workout regime. For the last couple of years I've felt my hormones were in the dumpster from years of overtraining, after running blood tests over the last few years, it turns out they were.

I've got my total test up to 1200 and my estrogen under control through a bit of enclomiphene and anastrozole however my SHBG despite doing a million and one things has stayed in the 65-100 nmol. The only time I got my free test above 120 pg/ml has been when I knocked it off with the running and cut it down to maybe 15 miles a week. I was able to get my free test up to 161 pg/ml. Cranked up the mileage to 30-40 back to 110 pgml.

Is this normal for other runners? Do folks just inject test to keep the SHBG on the lower side?

Not a runner but am an athlete and do a lot of cardio. I've had high normal SHBG (usually 48 or 49 with 50 being top of range) since my first blood test a decade ago as a total natty. Even on low/moderate cycles of say 100mg test and 150 mast a week my SHBG holds the same level. Personally I think SHBG serves other purposes than just "locking up" androgens although I'm admittedly not well educated on the topic. That's just the amateur conclusion I've come to trying to read complicated papers. Never heard of cardio being linked to SHBG but very curious to find out.

For reference in order to have free test at top of range I need total test at about 1600 ng/dl. There are other binding proteins as well so YMMV.

SERMS can have a side effect of raising SHBG. On top of that SHBG tends to rise in parallel with an increase of testosterone production.

Are you planning to use enclomiphene long term?

 

[Jin23]

Hey all,

Does anyone know if there is research or anecdotal evidence to connect high SHBG and endurance sports?

I fought competitively for a long time, a few years back I hung up the gloves however I have kept running in my workout regime. For the last couple of years I've felt my hormones were in the dumpster from years of overtraining, after running blood tests over the last few years, it turns out they were.

I've got my total test up to 1200 and my estrogen under control through a bit of enclomiphene and anastrozole however my SHBG despite doing a million and one things has stayed in the 65-100 nmol. The only time I got my free test above 120 pg/ml has been when I knocked it off with the running and cut it down to maybe 15 miles a week. I was able to get my free test up to 161 pg/ml. Cranked up the mileage to 30-40 back to 110 pgml.

Is this normal for other runners? Do folks just inject test to keep the SHBG on the lower side?

A very common reason for high shbg is a high TSAT. Indeed they are positively correlated. And a common occurrence with runners is hemolysis from feet hitting the ground all the time, which does release hemoglobin (iron) in to the circulation. Not quite sure what the statistics are, if people develop anemia from it or is an elevation in serum iron also a possible outcome. Either way, do an iron panel, and if tsat is high, that's (one of) your reason.

You also should understand that SHBG follows total testosterone. The higher your TT goes, so to SHBG will follow. With a TT of 1200 SHBG of 70 seems low even.

Third point; SERM's like clomiphene elevate SHBG. Some even use it mid cycle for this reason alone.

 

[Alyk89]

Hey guys thanks for the response!

I don't think using enclo is going to be my long term plan, I am trying to conceive with my wife this year, after she's past her first trimester I will consider switching to TRT if I cannot get my SHBG under control to see if the act of injecting exo test lowers it (some folks say it does).

I have considered trying to get my hands on some proviron as an alternate but that hasn't been going so well. Still haven't committed to ordering it from an online source and getting it delivered. It's been sold out in Mexico, and my cousin who is a pharmacist in Europe said there was a shortage, she couldn't get me any when my father was over there.

Do you guys think something in the short term like HCG would be better in raising my total T and not my SHBG?

My baseline numbers before any SERMS were looking like this:


I have made since then many dietary changes so that could be a reason it has come down (still not great).

Total T: 797 ng/dl
Free T: 83.9 pg/ml
Albumin: 4.7 g/dl
SHBG: 92


The best numbers I have had recently were from a blood test on 12/12/2023

Total T: 1145 ng/dl
Free T: 161.7 pg/ml
Albumin: 4.7 g/dl
SHBG: 73


Iron: 137 mc/dl
% saturation: 38%
Ferritin: 159 ng/ml
TIBC - 357 mcg/dl
TSAT (Calculated) - 44.5%



Since then I did one blood donation about a month ago and raised my mileage from 12 miles per week to 25-30miles per week:

Total T: 937 ng/dl
Free T: 118.8 pg/ml
SHBG: 76.8 nmol
Albumin: 4.5 g/dl


Iron: 129 mc/dl
% saturation : 38%
Ferritin: 100 ng/ml
TIBC - 344 mcg/dl
TSAT (Calculated) - 29.1%


After another donation about a month ago it seems like my SHBG went in the wrong direction and the only variable I know I have changed for sure has been the mileage. I felt way better so I felt like I could take on more miles.

Previous to this even with a total T of 1300 I could not get more than 120 pg/ml free test. After upping my enclo to 3x a week I am waiting to see what the numbers will come back and look like. Total T should be back around 1250.

 

[Jin23]

Hey guys thanks for the response!

I don't think using enclo is going to be my long term plan, I am trying to conceive with my wife this year, after she's past her first trimester I will consider switching to TRT if I cannot get my SHBG under control to see if the act of injecting exo test lowers it (some folks say it does).

I have considered trying to get my hands on some proviron as an alternate but that hasn't been going so well. Still haven't committed to ordering it from an online source and getting it delivered. It's been sold out in Mexico, and my cousin who is a pharmacist in Europe said there was a shortage, she couldn't get me any when my father was over there.

Do you guys think something in the short term like HCG would be better in raising my total T and not my SHBG?

My baseline numbers before any SERMS were looking like this:


I have made since then many dietary changes so that could be a reason it has come down (still not great).

Total T: 797 ng/dl
Free T: 83.9 pg/ml
Albumin: 4.7 g/dl
SHBG: 92


The best numbers I have had recently were from a blood test on 12/12/2023

Total T: 1145 ng/dl
Free T: 161.7 pg/ml
Albumin: 4.7 g/dl
SHBG: 73


Iron: 137 mc/dl
% saturation: 38%
Ferritin: 159 ng/ml
TIBC - 357 mcg/dl
TSAT (Calculated) - 44.5%



Since then I did one blood donation about a month ago and raised my mileage from 12 miles per week to 25-30miles per week:

Total T: 937 ng/dl
Free T: 118.8 pg/ml
SHBG: 76.8 nmol
Albumin: 4.5 g/dl


Iron: 129 mc/dl
% saturation : 38%
Ferritin: 100 ng/ml
TIBC - 344 mcg/dl
TSAT (Calculated) - 29.1%


After another donation about a month ago it seems like my SHBG went in the wrong direction and the only variable I know I have changed for sure has been the mileage. I felt way better so I felt like I could take on more miles.

Previous to this even with a total T of 1300 I could not get more than 120 pg/ml free test. After upping my enclo to 3x a week I am waiting to see what the numbers will come back and look like. Total T should be back around 1250.

Why the hell would you want to go on trt with a tt of 1200 and shbg of 70? Your free t is normal. It's ok.

 

[Alyk89]

Why the hell would you want to go on trt with a tt of 1200 and shbg of 70? Your free t is normal. It's ok.

Its 1200 w/SERMS. That free T of 161 only lasted a whole 2 weeks. Usually with a 1200 it's been between 100-120.

Taking nothing my total t is 800, but my free is 8. I end up feeling horrible. I have no sex drive, can't get erections, hair loss, cant put on muscle, horrible lack of energy.

I never checked my levels pre fighting life but man did I have all the energy in the world and had crazy sex drive and rock hard woods. It's only been from like 32-34 has it been so bad not even dick pills work and I can hardly get off the couch after work.

I think naturally as a kid I had really high free test, so going to this it's been a complete 180 for me.

 

[Alyk89]

Not a runner but am an athlete and do a lot of cardio. I've had high normal SHBG (usually 48 or 49 with 50 being top of range) since my first blood test a decade ago as a total natty. Even on low/moderate cycles of say 100mg test and 150 mast a week my SHBG holds the same level. Personally I think SHBG serves other purposes than just "locking up" androgens although I'm admittedly not well educated on the topic. That's just the amateur conclusion I've come to trying to read complicated papers. Never heard of cardio being linked to SHBG but very curious to find out.

For reference in order to have free test at top of range I need total test at about 1600 ng/dl. There are other binding proteins as well so YMMV.

SERMS can have a side effect of raising SHBG. On top of that SHBG tends to rise in parallel with an increase of testosterone production.

Are you planning to use enclomiphene long term?

No, my wife and I trying to conceive currently. I was thinking about trying my hand with proviron, or HCG.

After she is past her first trimester I have considered injecting test if I cannot get my free test stabilized at 160 or better. It's been a year of trying and while I have improved it, it's still not stable at a reasonable level.

My best case scenario is figure out what is happening with my SHBG spiking and remedy that. Maybe take HCG long term to give me a boost. Also if I could get my hands on proviron regularly that would be a good long term solution it seems as well.

 

[Jin23]

Its 1200 w/SERMS. That free T of 161 only lasted a whole 2 weeks. Usually with a 1200 it's been between 100-120.

Taking nothing my total t is 800, but my free is 8. I end up feeling horrible. I have no sex drive, can't get erections, hair loss, cant put on muscle, horrible lack of energy.

I never checked my levels pre fighting life but man did I have all the energy in the world and had crazy sex drive and rock hard woods. It's only been from like 32-34 has it been so bad not even dick pills work and I can hardly get off the couch after work.

I think naturally as a kid I had really high free test, so going to this it's been a complete 180 for me.

HCG suppresses your HPTA and it makes zero sense to use it in your case. End result would be a lower TT and a lot more hassle with hormones.

I understand your frustration, but a high shbg means something is wrong. Either liver, stress, imune system, etc.

Also, use this calc please.

TruT Free Testosterone Calculator by FPT

Free testosterone calculator by FPT. Improved accuracy of free T calculations.

tru-t.org

And understand that you can not compare different lab results of free T with some universal range. Use labs own ranges to determine where you fall, or better yet, use trut calc.

 

[Alyk89]

So I have a lot more blood work that I didn't post but I checked out a lot of what you mentioned with my doc. They seem to think it is genetic with me.

• Liver was good
• Thyroid was good
• Immune system was good
• Macros per day are at least 2,200 cal...really good split of 200 grams of carbs, 70 grams of fat, 200 grams of protein.
• DHEA is low, I have been supplementing it for almost a year now. Coming close to being in range. Studies show it doesn't affect men as much as women.
• Iron levels good
• Boron levels good
• Zinc levels good.

In terms of the labs, I have fallen low free t on all of their ranges except the one anomaly when I wasn't running as much.

Stress or chronic over training would be the only other option.
I work a really stressful job on top of doing a lot of aerobic work.
Up until recently I had a horrible time sleeping. My IGF-1 boosted up quite a bit once I stopped eating process carbs so that has been helping.

All that to say this is why I made the thread, is the work stress + constant aerobic and anaerobic work causing the issue?

 

[Alyk89]

@Jin23 I just used the calculator you posted, how can it vary so highly? WTF do I believe?

Labcrop claims
Total T: 937 ng/dl
SHBG: 78.8 nmol
Albumin: 4.5 g/dl
Free T: 118 pg/ml

TruT calc
Total T: 937 ng/dl
SHBG: 78.8 nmol
Albumin: 4.5 g/dl
Free T: 26.89 ng/dL or 268.9 pg/ml

 

[Jin23]

@Jin23 I just used the calculator you posted, how can it vary so highly? WTF do I believe?

Labcrop claims
Total T: 937 ng/dl
SHBG: 78.8 nmol
Albumin: 4.5 g/dl
Free T: 118 pg/ml

TruT calc
Total T: 937 ng/dl
SHBG: 78.8 nmol
Albumin: 4.5 g/dl
Free T: 26.89 ng/dL or 268.9 pg/ml

As I said, there is no universal range for free t. And labs use different equipment, different techniques, etc. Not to mention that these assays are iffy and can produce varying results by them selfs. It's best to calculate using a good calc like trut, honestly.

Free test measurement units/format?

Got this value on free test a few months ago, I've seen free test displayed in various formats in multiple places on the internet but never understood what's the most common way to observe it. Also, feel free to give me your thoughts on the value itself. Is it of any significance without...

thinksteroids.com

 

[Jin23]

So I have a lot more blood work that I didn't post but I checked out a lot of what you mentioned with my doc. They seem to think it is genetic with me.

• Liver was good
• Thyroid was good
• Immune system was good
• Macros per day are at least 2,200 cal...really good split of 200 grams of carbs, 70 grams of fat, 200 grams of protein.
• DHEA is low, I have been supplementing it for almost a year now. Coming close to being in range. Studies show it doesn't affect men as much as women.
• Iron levels good
• Boron levels good
• Zinc levels good.

In terms of the labs, I have fallen low free t on all of their ranges except the one anomaly when I wasn't running as much.

Stress or chronic over training would be the only other option.
I work a really stressful job on top of doing a lot of aerobic work.
Up until recently I had a horrible time sleeping. My IGF-1 boosted up quite a bit once I stopped eating process carbs so that has been helping.

All that to say this is why I made the thread, is the work stress + constant aerobic and anaerobic work causing the issue?

Immune system? Liver can also be an issue and it wont show up on normal liver labs. Ofc genetics is a factor, but stress and poor sleep have a profound effect on shbg.

 

[Alyk89]

Immune system? Liver can also be an issue and it wont show up on normal liver labs. Ofc genetics is a factor, but stress and poor sleep have a profound effect on shbg.

What would be the additional markers to look at for Liver? I've read something about a liver ultrasound? I have been hit in the liver a few times, really hard from competitions.

I have read DHT deficiencies could do it, waiting on the labs to come back.

Anything else worth looking into?

Complete aside but you mentioned HCG shuts down your natural production, isn't that what it is prescribed for? Analog to LH?

 

[I6JQdr06]

Its 1200 w/SERMS. That free T of 161 only lasted a whole 2 weeks. Usually with a 1200 it's been between 100-120.

Taking nothing my total t is 800, but my free is 8. I end up feeling horrible. I have no sex drive, can't get erections, hair loss, cant put on muscle, horrible lack of energy.

I never checked my levels pre fighting life but man did I have all the energy in the world and had crazy sex drive and rock hard woods. It's only been from like 32-34 has it been so bad not even dick pills work and I can hardly get off the couch after work.

I think naturally as a kid I had really high free test, so going to this it's been a complete 180 for me.

I also never checked my levels until I had a performance related reason to do so. Same situation as you. I had normal test levels but they had definitely been declining throughout my 30s as I had similar symptoms to as you described.

My assumption too is that I previously had unusually high test as a teenager and young adult. Interestingly it takes about 225mg of test U as TRT to feel like I’m back where I used to be. That’s a pretty high dose.

Even on low/moderate cycles of say 100mg test and 150 mast a week my SHBG holds the same level.

How do you find 100 test/150 mast? I was thinking of swapping out some of my test for mast and see how it goes. I know that on =>200 mast I have trouble peeing and on 100mg I don’t. Maybe 150 is the sweet spot.

Do you cycle this and then go back to TRT or PCT back to natty at the end? How long are your cycles? Do
You do this for athletic performance or bodybuilding?

 

[UncleBuns]

@I6JQdr06
I feel great on this and blood work looks good. I keep my normal health supps and cardio in the mix and lipids are good. The side effects I notice are my temper is a bit elevated and patience a bit less. I just threw some mast on top of my trt which is 105mg test c and 1250 hcg a week. If I'm a bodybuilder I'm an absolute failure at about 72 kg! My PED use is just for my athletic hobbies and to look and feel great as I age.

 

[I6JQdr06]

My reasons for taking PEDs are exactly the same as yours. Except I wish I was 72kg. Losing 10kg would help massively with my climbing performance.

Oh high TRT (~175-225mg/week) I’ve just continued to put on muscle mass and even at 9.5% body fat I have a BMI of 27. Ideally it would be more like 20.

I’ve often considered that switching out some of the test for mast might be the answer.