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[Ghoul]

It’s be interesting to recon with 3ml sterile and then extract into a larger sterile vial and inject another 3ml custom 1.8% to 2% BA sterile soln in a larger vial (giving a 0.9%-1% final BA percentage). Just as an experiment to see if it’s really a concentration-specific issue or a SSA/source production issue. Taking pictures at each step…

Chinese UGLs have used the "Sterile water not BAC" shit for years when any peptide reconstitution issue comes up. Heard it multiple times from QSC and others.

That ain't it.

Higher concentration promotes aggregation (along with other factors), and 40-42iu is pushing the limit in a 3ml vial. At that concentration, without any surfactant excipients (used by pharma for high concentration rHGH), if anything is a little off, slightly damaged monomers (from heat, light, oxygen, agitation while reconstituting), aggregation is pretty likely.

Reports on lobster of similar issues from a couple of customers. Seems to happen more in the Summer months, which makes me think it may be exposure to very high heat in transit.

 

[niqTM]

I have been recon'ing my 36iu GH with 1ml water. You guys are saying that is not enough?

 

[Photon]

I have been recon'ing my 36iu GH with 1ml water. You guys are saying that is not enough?

I use .5ml with Q's 40iu..
6 vials..then i put into an insulin cart..

Cold bac water, then i leave it in the fridge to slowly dissolve.
Have not faced any cloudy or stringy situations yet.

 

[Ghoul]

I have been recon'ing my 36iu GH with 1ml water. You guys are saying that is not enough?

In a mannitol only formulation (no buffers or surfactants to protect against aggregation), the highest concentration pharma uses is 15iu/ml. More than that causes aggregation, whether it's visible or not.

When higher concentrations are used, the excipient ingredients become more complex to protect the rHGH.

TLDR, the lower the concentration, the less rHGH will degrade via aggregation.

 

[CharlesV]

i go half, so about 2.0 on those 40iu tested kits or 15.5 on the 31iu varieties. my very unofficial field research shows it’s fine.

the sheer number of kits SSA (and QSC before them) push out on a daily basis, compared to the amounts of complaints, leads me to think the issue is not really as widespread as it’s being made out to be.

it’s be nice if we had the wherewithal to do legit in depth studies on this shit, but it’s not going to happen.

 

[niqTM]

i go half, so about 2.0 on those 40iu tested kits or 15.5 on the 31iu varieties. my very unofficial field research shows it’s fine.

the sheer number of kits SSA (and QSC before them) push out on a daily basis, compared to the amounts of complaints, leads me to think the issue is not really as widespread as it’s being made out to be.

it’s be nice if we had the wherewithal to do legit in depth studies on this shit, but it’s not going to happen.

What would you see if it wasn't "fine"?

My QSC 36iu (40iu) vials always look clear, no floaters, no cloudiness. Is there anything else I should be looking for?

 

[Infernalmango]

Chinese UGLs have used the "Sterile water not BAC" shit for years when any peptide reconstitution issue comes up. Heard it multiple times from QSC and others.

That ain't it.

Higher concentration promotes aggregation (along with other factors), and 40-42iu is pushing the limit in a 3ml vial. At that concentration, without any surfactant excipients (used by pharma for high concentration rHGH), if anything is a little off, slightly damaged monomers (from heat, light, oxygen, agitation while reconstituting), aggregation is pretty likely.

Reports on lobster of similar issues from a couple of customers. Seems to happen more in the Summer months, which makes me think it may be exposure to very high heat in transit.

So for Optis 60iu vials, you’re saying there is likely a good chance to see similar things? They are going to be in 5ml vials I believe.

 

[Ghoul]

So for Optis 60iu vials, you’re saying there is likely a good chance to see similar things? They are going to be in 5ml vials I believe.

If you reconstitute with 5ml it'll be a lower concentration than 3ml for 40iu, so it somewhat reduces the risk, but if 60iu is sitting around reconstituted for a month that will make things worse. Unless the savings per iu was significant, I'd personally stick to lower iu vials so they get used more quickly.

I had an 18iu vial reconstituted, then went unused for 2 months because plans changed. Crystal clear. When I tried to filter it, 13mm filter completely seized up half way through.

After reconstituting a fresh vial from the same kit, it filtered just fine. That told be the "clear" vial was packed with subvisible aggregates. By the time you can see a microscopic "filament" aggregate with your naked eye, it consists of tens of millions of rHGH monomers stuck together.

 

[dinfar1337]

If you reconstitute with 5ml it'll be a lower concentration than 3ml for 40iu, so it somewhat reduces the risk, but if 60iu is sitting around reconstituted for a month that will make things worse. Unless the savings per iu was significant, I'd personally stick to lower iu vials so they get used more quickly.

I had an 18iu vial reconstituted, then went unused for 2 months because plans changed. Crystal clear. When I tried to filter it, 13mm filter completely seized up half way through.

After reconstituting a fresh vial from the same kit, it filtered just fine. That told be the "clear" vial was packed with subvisible aggregates. By the time you can see a microscopic "filament" aggregate with your naked eye, it consists of tens of millions of rHGH monomers stuck together.

just give me all your 60 iu vials if you use a month on them. i will run them through in under 10 days

 

[Ghoul]

just give me all your 60 iu vials if you use a month on them. i will run them through in under 10 days

Ten days happens to be my rule of thumb limit for max time I want a vial reconstituted.

More of an issue for the 2iu / day users.

 

[CharlesV]

What would you see if it wasn't "fine"?

My QSC 36iu (40iu) vials always look clear, no floaters, no cloudiness. Is there anything else I should be looking for?

i really don’t put much thought into it. i recon’ it, let it sit, check for clarity and blast away. i’ve never seen anything but clear reconstituted gh. TP (for years), Platinum (for a kit) , Opti, QSC, SSA, Lobster, in that order, have only had crystal clear gh.

we saw the issues a year or so ago with the yellow pucks, and more recently floaters and stringers, but i guess i’ve either had good luck or need glasses.

 

[dinfar1337]

Ten days happens to be my rule of thumb limit for max time I want a vial reconstituted.

More of an issue for the 2iu / day users.

this is good tho.

its like sticking those ugly ass 120mg tirzepatide vials in the head of 2mg users like me.

it will take me years to run through it. someone using 15mg could probably use 2 months on it.

but theres something for high iu hgh users now so we dont have to constantly recon

 

[mogulator]

Has anyone tried the MT2 recently I saw some people having cloudy vials after just a couple of days.

 

[Infernalmango]

If you reconstitute with 5ml it'll be a lower concentration than 3ml for 40iu, so it somewhat reduces the risk, but if 60iu is sitting around reconstituted for a month that will make things worse. Unless the savings per iu was significant, I'd personally stick to lower iu vials so they get used more quickly.

I had an 18iu vial reconstituted, then went unused for 2 months because plans changed. Crystal clear. When I tried to filter it, 13mm filter completely seized up half way through.

After reconstituting a fresh vial from the same kit, it filtered just fine. That told be the "clear" vial was packed with subvisible aggregates. By the time you can see a microscopic "filament" aggregate with your naked eye, it consists of tens of millions of rHGH monomers stuck together.

Gotcha. Is there actual health dangers in having gh stored for up to the 28 day limit? Or is it just product degradation?

 

[AllGoodThings]

just give me all your 60 iu vials if you use a month on them. i will run them through in under 10 days

I'm at 14iu/day trying to heal a ruptured tendon, so I'll use them in just over 4 days, therefore, in all fairness, they should go to me. Thank you.

 

[mogulator]

I'm at 14iu/day trying to heal a ruptured tendon, so I'll use them in just over 4 days, therefore, in all fairness, they should go to me. Thank you. View attachment 340906

Man that looks rough! Wishing you a speedy recovery, are you running BPC157 and TB500 too?

 

[dinfar1337]

I'm at 14iu/day trying to heal a ruptured tendon, so I'll use them in just over 4 days, therefore, in all fairness, they should go to me. Thank you. View attachment 340906

yikes sucks, i have just injured my arm aswell waiting for bpc/tb to show up on my door.

im nowhere near as bad as that tho

 

[Ghoul]

Gotcha. Is there actual health dangers in having gh stored for up to the 28 day limit? Or is it just product degradation?

It's degradation, but the concern is less potency loss than the long term health consequences of aggregates that form as a result of degradation. Pharma and the FDA go to great lengths to avoid them. But that's a long topic that invites endless debate.

TLDR: filtering removes most aggregates and many other particulate risks.

You can see the before and after particle count (MFI) of a "control" vial of rHGH before and after filtration with .22um Pall syringe filters. It's huge. From 37,000 to a few hundred.

 

[AllGoodThings]

Man that looks rough! Wishing you a speedy recovery, are you running BPC157 and TB500 too?

Recovery protocol: (majority of the peptides are from SSA)

BPC-157, 1.5mg 3x/day (4.5mg/day total)
Oral BPC-157 500mcg 2x/day
TB4 (TB-500 full sequence) 1mg 3x/day (3mg/day total)
TB-500 fragment 17-23 2mg ED
rHGH 12iu/day bedtime, subq (this is what I was already taking dosage-wise)
GHK-CU 5mg 3x/day (15mg/day)
KPV 500mcg 3x/day (1.5mg/day)

Test Enanthate 250mg/week (dropped down from 750mg/week as test can interfere with collagen synthesis)
Anavar 60mg/day split into 20mg doses 3x/day (helps with collagen synthesis)
NPP 100mg/week to help a little with pain as I start very light training with that arm.

 

[mogulator]

Recovery protocol: (majority of the peptides are from SSA)

BPC-157, 1.5mg 3x/day (4.5mg/day total)
Oral BPC-157 500mcg 2x/day
TB4 (TB-500 full sequence) 1mg 3x/day (3mg/day total)
TB-500 fragment 17-23 2mg ED
rHGH 12iu/day bedtime, subq (this is what I was already taking dosage-wise)
GHK-CU 5mg 3x/day (15mg/day)
KPV 500mcg 3x/day (1.5mg/day)

Test Enanthate 250mg/week (dropped down from 750mg/week as test can interfere with collagen synthesis)
Anavar 60mg/day split into 20mg doses 3x/day (helps with collagen synthesis)
NPP 100mg/week to help a little with pain as I start very light training with that arm.

Solid protocol. Really covered every corner with this. I suggest to use VIP for inflammation (Vasoactive Intestinal Peptide) as well.