So I just got back from the cardiologist's office

[Jankauskas]

But i will point out you could take 100 different ppl and micro manage every aspect of their training, diet, sleep and drug regimen and you will discover there will be tiers of development.

This is something I would love to see one day, by myself even, but sadly I doubt it will ever happen. Too many variables to manage and the participants would have to be locked up for extended periods of time and monitored 24/7 for us to have a real conclusion

 

[Docd187123]

If you look at individuals that are natural, there are no cases of extreme difference on muscle mass ammounts.

Lets take the example of people who dont train, if what you claim is true, then we would have non trainees being "massive" compared to other human beings because they had more AR than the rest, but this is not the case.
Also, in true natural bodybuilding competitions, you look at the guys there, and they are all at the same level, if the show is truly tested, there are no extreme deviations from the norm. The extreme deviations only start to happen when there is a possibility of the participants being on some sort of substance, like you see on the "fake natural" competitions.
At mister olympia there is even more deviation, big ramy and winklaar have more mass than the rest, why is that?
Simple: because they take the most ammounts of gear. This sport is like a war, you do everything in your power to win, you take what you gotta take, some are able to withstand taking more, others dont and have to take less, but everyone takes a lot of stuff, nothing compared with the run-of-the-mill cycles we do.
Naturals look all the same because of the natural "ceiling" that keeps them from deviating, thats why after some years of being in the "business" you can tell if someone on the gym is on something or not, because you have an idea of what is possible, and the person in question is starting to deviate from it.

1) I never said the biggest guys don't take the most amounts of gear. Nor did I ever say Pro's take run of the mill cycles like we do. You're making a strawman and confusing someone else's arguments with mine.

2) I couldn't care less about bodybuilding so you'll have to inform me on Ramy and Winklaar. I wouldn't be able to pick them out of a line up unless the rest of it was populated with females lol.

3) I'm not catching your example with the people who don't train. I think somethin is missing from it.

4) you're assuming the biggest guys take the most gear. It's fine to have an opinion on that but since nobody besides those people themselves and possibly their trainers know what they're on, you simply cannot state it as fact. I can simply come back and tell you they have a much better response to gear and are an outlier group to the general outlier group being the pros.

 

[Jankauskas]

can simply come back and tell you they have a much better response to gear and are an outlier group to the general outlier group being the pros.

Well, then there is no use in continuing this conversation. I dont believe in that, I dont agree with that, and until I am proven with irrefutable evidence that what you claim is the truth I never will.

Have a good day

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Here are Arnold and Lee both at 16 yrs old. Do you think just ANYONE could achieve that development at that age? Steroids or not?



Heres Joseph Pena. He squatted over 1000 lb before even graduating highschool. Do you think just ANYONE could do that?

Well, then there is no use in continuing this conversation. I dont believe in that, I dont agree with that, and until I am proven with irrefutable evidence that what you claim is the truth I never will.

Have a good day

 

[Jankauskas]

Here are Arnold and Lee both at 16 yrs old. Do you think just ANYONE could achieve that development at that age? Steroids or not?

With steroids, yes, plenty of 16 year old kids on social media with an incredible development on their teens. Arnold was limited regarding coumpounds at that time, but lest not forget everything was pharma grade back then because steroids were not illegal.

Heres Joseph Pena. He squatted over 1000 lb before even graduating highschool. Do you think just ANYONE could do that?

This one I agree with you, strength is heavily dependant on your bone structure, which is entirely a genetic factor. The kid is built like a truck.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

With steroids, yes, plenty of 16 year old kids on social media with an incredible development on their teens. Arnold was limited regarding coumpounds at that time, but lest not forget everything was pharma grade back then because steroids were not illegal.


This one I agree with you, strength is heavily dependant on your bone structure, which is entirely a genetic factor. The kid is built like a truck.

I dont think were getting thru to you. There are zero teens on the planet that could duplicate Arnold or Priests development at that age UNLESS they had equal genetic makeup. There are literally hundreds of thousands of hopefuls that take to the iron in hopes of being the next Coleman. Hundreds upon thousands that put in work ED for years and years with all the drugs their body can handle YET they will be lucky enough to grace the stages of a pep boys classic physique show. Its all around you. Just gotta open your eyes. The fallacy of...ahhh enough gear and anyone can win everything is so damn ignorant. It doesnt work that way

 

[Jankauskas]

I dont think were getting thru to you. There are zero teens on the planet that could duplicate Arnold or Priests development at that age UNLESS they had equal genetic makeup. There are literally hundreds of thousands of hopefuls that take to the iron in hopes of being the next Coleman. Hundreds upon thousands that put in work ED for years and years with all the drugs their body can handle YET they will be lucky enough to grace the stages of a pep boys classic physique show. Its all around you. Just gotta open your eyes. The fallacy of...ahhh enough gear and anyone can win everything is so damn ignorant. It doesnt work that way

I never claimed everyone can win everything, genetics are the most important thing indeed, and the determinant winning factor.
I never claimed that priest and arnold could be duplicated, as they are unique, and their individual uniqueness is what made them into legends.

What I did claim however is that any kid who takes a considerable ammount of drugs can attain a similar size and conditioning, which in Arnolds case, the latter was never his strong point anyway.

 

[Docd187123]

Well, then there is no use in continuing this conversation. I dont believe in that, I dont agree with that, and until I am proven with irrefutable evidence that what you claim is the truth I never will.

Have a good day

Well then you're basically admitting this is you



No hair off my back if you wish to remain willfully ignorant of the topic.

 

[Jankauskas]

Well then you're basically admitting this is you

View attachment 77491

No hair off my back if you wish to remain willfully ignorant of the topic.

And thats the Ad Hominem for you, fallacy guy.

 

[Docd187123]

What I did claim however is that any kid who takes a considerable ammount of drugs can attain a similar size and conditioning, which in Arnolds case, the latter was never his strong point anyway.

Cough **** Bostin Lloyd *** cough ****many others**** cough cough

You're argument is a joke at this point. I only believe what I want and when I can't prove it I stop listening.

 

[Docd187123]

And thats the Ad Hominem for you, fallacy guy.

I did not use the ad hominem to attack your argument, rather for your willingness to act childish when someone doesn't believe you

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

What I did claim however is that any kid who takes a considerable ammount of drugs can attain a similar size and conditioning

THIS is whay im trying to get thru to you. I personally know someone who physically pushed their bodies drug tolerance to the max and trained and ate like a pro because finances are an after thought for him. He could afford anything he wanted. Drugs, food etc etc. In any amounts he wanted. Were talking 18 iu of serostim a day. 4-5 grams of gear cycle after cycle. Insulin of varying types, overlapped. Hiring professional coaches.
He has a good build. Some thing to be proud of. But not anything that would even win a local show. Let alone a pro card or Olympia.

 

[ErikR]

I never claimed everyone can win everything, genetics are the most important thing indeed, and the determinant winning factor.
I never claimed that priest and arnold could be duplicated, as they are unique, and their individual uniqueness is what made them into legends.

What I did claim however is that any kid who takes a considerable ammount of drugs can attain a similar size and conditioning, which in Arnolds case, the latter was never his strong point anyway.

Other then the fact that that's wrong, that's a very dangerous way of thinking. Unfortunately too many kids think this way. Other reason why PEDs will probably never become legal.

 

[Jankauskas]

Other then the fact that that's wrong, that's a very dangerous way of thinking. Unfortunately too many kids think this way. Other reason why PEDs will probably never become legal.

I did not advocate any of that, just pointing it out.

 

[Just Fish]

If you look at individuals that are natural, there are no cases of extreme difference on muscle mass ammounts.

Lets take the example of people who dont train, if what you claim is true, then we would have non trainees being "massive" compared to other human beings because they had more AR than the rest, but this is not the case.
Also, in true natural bodybuilding competitions, you look at the guys there, and they are all at the same level, if the show is truly tested, there are no extreme deviations from the norm. The extreme deviations only start to happen when there is a possibility of the participants being on some sort of substance, like you see on the "fake natural" competitions.
At mister olympia there is even more deviation, big ramy and winklaar have more mass than the rest, why is that?
Simple: because they take the most ammounts of gear. This sport is like a war, you do everything in your power to win, you take what you gotta take, some are able to withstand taking more, others dont and have to take less, but everyone takes a lot of stuff, nothing compared with the run-of-the-mill cycles we do.
Naturals look all the same because of the natural "ceiling" that keeps them from deviating, thats why after some years of being in the "business" you can tell if someone on the gym is on something or not, because you have an idea of what is possible, and the person in question is starting to deviate from it.

Wrong, on so many levels. There was an extreme difference between me and natural individuals when I was natty. Shit I was bigger then a lot of guys on gear and that is because of genetics. You are telling me that you've never known anyone that was big without aas or lifting ?

 

[Jankauskas]

Wrong, on so many levels. There was an extreme difference between me and natural individuals when I was natty. Shit I was bigger then a lot of guys on gear and that is because of genetics. You are telling me that you've never known anyone that was big without aas or lifting ?

Me, but I did everything right training and nutrition wise, cant speak for the others.

 

[Docd187123]

Me, but I did everything right training and nutrition wise, cant speak for the others.

That's funny considering just hours ago you were speaking for Ramy, Wankeraal, Arnold, etc...

 

[Jankauskas]

That's funny considering just hours ago you were speaking for Ramy, Wankeraal, Arnold, etc...

Wankeraal, must be a new prospect im certain

 

[Docd187123]

Wankeraal, must be a new prospect im certain

Your certainty on topics leaves a lot to be desired though lol

 

[Jankauskas]

Your certainty on topics leaves a lot to be desired though lol

So does your "knowlege". You have still failed to provide evidence to your certainties, you must have it somewhere on your computer, just upload the files, its just a couple of clicks.