So if no Finestride....then what do you use?

[fenstermaker]

Been on TRT for over two years and keeping good levels. I check monthly to bi monthly..... Never been too high on my DHT levels but i am starting to notice my hair getting thin. Is there anything I can do to help with this? I have read so many bad things about Finestride...... and by the way if I don't relieve myself at least every other day, I start getting symptoms of enlarged prostrate.... Had it checked and Dr. says I am fine..... blood test are fine...... so is there anything to help with the DHT like sides I am getting?

thanks in advance.

 

[BBC3]

This reply is a personal technique that works for me. So dont try. right:
When DHT gets too high first I try to spike my Estradiol(I believe e2 is the natural anti-DHT) with a double dose of testosterone one week. If that doesn't work try again in two weeks to see results. If it didnt work, then take 2-4weeks off the testosterone. NOTE: E2 begins to drop with steady regular injections. The more consistant you are, the morre likely you E2 will go throught t he floor and allow DHT imbalance.

Your hailoss may be more due to natural genetic setup than a simple testosterone overdose.. . One way to know if testosterone is knocking out your hair is run your fingers through it front to back. If it feels sore to the touch, its the DHT too high. I also used to notice a burning feelling up there when it was really comming out good. We called it "harvest time".. You either have a natural tendency to have higher DHT, or your hair is coded to fall out at that level of exposure. Either way, IT IS REALLY ALL DETERMINED BY GENETICS. You may just be able to sneak right by genetic code if you could balance DHT & E2 .

 

[lou123]

The people who have sides on finasteride is very small and the people who have sides that are not reversable after discontinuing Fin is miniscule.


If you like your hair and want to stay on TRT Fin is your only hope.

I would combine it with rogaine foam and Nizoral 2%.

 

[s0b]

Probably more than 15-20% side effects based on AR gene variations and exon repeat sequences. Its a russian roulette to take finasteride nowadays. Long lasting side effects or irreversible in most cases, its just a matter of time even for long term non sufferers to reach to the point of permanent problems. Some get there at 2 months others at 3-4 years. It doesnt matter once you show sides then possibility of recovering is 50/50

 

[lou123]

Probably more than 15-20% side effects based on AR gene variations and exon repeat sequences. Its a russian roulette to take finasteride nowadays. Long lasting side effects or irreversible in most cases, its just a matter of time even for long term non sufferers to reach to the point of permanent problems. Some get there at 2 months others at 3-4 years. It doesnt matter once you show sides then possibility of recovering is 50/50

How about 12 years with no sides ?


The Propecia side effects web site has been around for 7 years now and has about 40 active members.

I feel bad for the people who do get sides but what i don't feel bad for are the people who rev up the percentage of those who are efected by Propecia in some wil hope of getting the drug pulled or making themselves feel better.

If the drug is so bad why is there not a class action lawsuit in America ?

Why has the drug not been pulled ?

 

[s0b]

Who gives a f**k if the drug is pulled or not from the market?? We care about how our own lives got messed up and the lives of people who have been affected and noone can help them out of it, and its too many to list. You see 40 active members on a forum i ve known around 20 or more in my small sized city in a country where it is way to difficult to get it prescribed to start with. Guess what, no serious doctor prescribes it here either, unless they make a proft out of it, like dermatologists. Most endos are against its use, like all other steroids anyways-unless there is a serious disease you have to treat.

Plus who sais it does affect 100% of individuals. Yet since noone has done so specific tests to measure their intraprostatic/intratesticular T/DHT/E2 and other hormone levels after long term cease of use, noone can really tell what it causes and to what extend in the population. Or do doctors know of the possible epigenetic enzyme modifications or changes in AR behavior that may possible take place??

Dont forget most people get sides from finasteride some time after they stop using it. I am one of them, for example during use i only had minor libido drop couldnt care less couldnt care more. But some months later serious problems came around the corner or thats when i started noticing them more, (constant no libido, decrease penis and testicle size, numbness in all genital organs, fatigue, watery ejaculate, pain in testicles -endless that is- and others)
I also know of someone who sniffs coke for 10 years straight and only problem he has is some bouts of insomnia as he himself reckons. Whats that to say then?? That everyone is ok to take cocaine or that its an individual thing?

 

[fenstermaker]

Wow.... hot topic...... Does anyone have a number or percentage of people that are having sides from Finastride?

Smaller penis from Finastride?..... first I have heard of that...... damn I might have an "innie" if I start taking it.......

 

[lou123]

Finasteride has been prescribe for 20 years now and most of it's prescriptions are for 5 mg (proscar)

My endo gives me my Proscar prescription, lol


Dr Ivan Cohen and Dr Ron Shapiro each have over 10,000 patients taking Propecia and both have told me the reported side effects are LESS than 2% in the what they see in real life.

Sorry but I believe them over 40 guys on the internet and 4 guys in your neighborhood.


I'm sorry you had a bad effect but to make an outrageous claim like 15 - 20 % of people get sides is you trying to scare people which is BS.


As far as stopping and then the sides come on well i believed the hype from the Propecia haters and stopped for 18 months, I had one huge side effect, I lost 1/2 of my $%%ing hair. Thank god it grew back but it took over a year.



You obviously know a lot about coke, maybe that's your real problem

 

[EIC]

I think it is silly to deny side effects from Finasteride. The drug's entire efficacy depends on reducing serum DHT to a significant degree. Obviously, DHT has other effects in the male body besides causing hair loss. Thus, to be effective at all, the drug must cause "side effects." If you do not notice them it may well be because your endocrine system is already sufficiently impaired that a further reduction in well-being cannot be detected. I cannot think of anyone I know on finasteride who is a picture of masculine virility.

For myself, I am using a combination of Xandrox, 5% spironolactone, Nizoral, and lasers. I have cut my hair very short (no. 1), which most people seem to agree looks good for me anyway. This makes it easy for me to apply the topicals. I think this offers the best way to treat the hair loss without the side effects. Obviously, I would prefer to have my old, long hair, but a sacrifice has to be made and if it means a short haircut, so be it. It is better than having to shave it everyday (which I did for a time before fighting it with topicals).

 

[lou123]

I cannot think of anyone I know on finasteride who is a picture of masculine virility.
/QUOTE]

What exactly do you mean by that statement ?

A person on fin isn't muscular ?

Doesn't have a sex drive ?


Where did you get the Spiro ?


Have you tried rogaine foam, worked WONDERS for me.

 

[Exile]

Finasteride and Nizerol shampoo...

 

[lou123]

Finasteride and Nizerol shampoo...

Try adding rogaine foam to the mix.

The secret is you need to use about double the recomended dose of foam to cover your head from hairline to crown.

I have significant regrowth all over from Fin (1.25 mg/day) Niz 2 % and foam (2 cans a month) even at the hairline

 

[s0b]

Lou123 as i said noone is the same. You get benefits from finasteride and no sides, a large portion of the population get benefits mild sides, some get no benefits no sides, some get benefits huge sides.

In retrospect, the swedish FDA wouldnt pull out a report stating that it causes long term sexual side effects for no reason and permanent libido issues after discontinuation, i think they may know better than us. Most importantly there are a handful of countries in europe who consider Propecia for Alopecia use Illegal and reckon it as an antiandrogen and deny its use or approval.

I dont know the endos you are referring too. I may give them a call and ask them about their 10.000 patients but primarily about the reason of prescription and the tests they run patients since it is a steroid drug we are talking about and not a vitamin C capsule that you take whenever or with whatever. Strange that in my university hospital there is huge awareness about finasteride side effects while in your area ENDOCRINOLOGISTS (for what, for hair loss?? or for womans hisrutism) prescribe it so readily.

I dont know what to say, but still time will answer and surely gene testing will bring into light what happens to people who get side effects.

 

[s0b]

As far as stopping and then the sides come on well i believed the hype from the Propecia haters and stopped for 18 months, I had one huge side effect, I lost 1/2 of my $%%ing hair. Thank god it grew back but it took over a year.



You obviously know a lot about coke, maybe that's your real problem

That and only that shows the remarkable diversity of human genetics and proteomics. You stopped and your hairloss restarted, i stopped after 5-6 weeks of use and my hairloss NEVER restarted. This is also shown under adiol-g levels which were very suppressed after finasteride. This is the metabolite that measures 5-ar II activity. What is there not to believe?

Plus if you dont believe forums, as i said download the research and check what dht is needed for and what is lowering 5-ar II activity capable of doing to your body. Changes dont come around in 1-2 years, they depend on a vast array of parameters.

 

[lou123]

I dont know the endos you are referring too. I may give them a call and ask them about their 10.000 patients but primarily about the reason of prescription and the tests they run patients since it is a steroid drug we are talking about and not a vitamin C capsule that you take whenever or with whatever. Strange that in my university hospital there is huge awareness about finasteride side effects while in your area ENDOCRINOLOGISTS (for what, for hair loss?? or for womans hisrutism) prescribe it so readily.

The dr's I mentioned are hair transplant surgeons and one is also a prominent dermatologist.

These guys make a ton of cash so they are not prescribing propecia for the money trust me.

They have over 20,000 people combined on Propecia and the reported side effects are less than 2% according to them. These guys have no reason to lie.

People who don't have sides don't frequent these forums for the most part so all we ever hear is the bad stuff and it gets compounded over and over by the same people (I'm not saying you do this as this is the first post I ever read from you. The guy Mew from the propecia side effects forum used to swarm every site saying how bad Propecia is and even he now acknowledges it's a very small % who get side and it's something with their genetic make up.

I get my Proscar ( $20 for a year of Propecia when cut up) from My endo who specializes in HypoG

I've been on Propecia close to 13 years now.

Heres something else to think about, if so many people are getting sides then obviously they would stop taking the drug. Why would Merch keep producing a drug that isn't selling ?

In this sue happy country some lawyer would have taken up the case as if he could prove the side effects effected even 5% of guys Merck would be paying up $$$$$$$$$$

 

[Cypherpunk]

I have to agree with Lou...I've been on the drug for 2 years or so now with no problems whatsoever, albeit I am only on 0.5mg so take that for what it's worth. Hairloss has come to a screeching halt...as an added bonus in my book I lost quite a bit of body hair (sorry not a fan of back hair...lol.) My brother has been on it since age 19 and is now 30...no problems either and has the hair of a 12 year old after rapidly losing hair at 18 and being destined for baldness. I am also a patient of a very well respected member of this forum, Dr. Mariano, so I do know he prescribes it, just in lower doses typically.

 

[lou123]

I have to agree with Lou...I've been on the drug for 2 years or so now with no problems whatsoever, albeit I am only on 0.5mg so take that for what it's worth. Hairloss has come to a screeching halt...as an added bonus in my book I lost quite a bit of body hair (sorry not a fan of back hair...lol.) My brother has been on it since age 19 and is now 30...no problems either and has the hair of a 12 year old after rapidly losing hair at 18 and being destined for baldness. I am also a patient of a very well respected member of this forum, Dr. Mariano, so I do know he prescribes it, just in lower doses typically.

Your in the vast majority of people who use fin.

I also like the lack of body hair, if you remove the hair you have with a hair remover ( Jantana was great but it's discontinued) the hair will grow back less, just don't shave it.

 

[EIC]

What exactly do you mean by that statement ?

A person on fin isn't muscular ?

Doesn't have a sex drive ?

All of the guys I know who have used finasteride for any length of time tend to have higher body fat, moderate gyno, and seemingly little sex drive.

My own opinion is that DHT is a good thing for the male body, the only "problem" being excess body hair and scalp hair loss.

Is it possible to use it without noticing significant reductions in libido, performance, etc.? I guess it's possible, but what if it doesn't work out? And what if the effects are permanent? That is what keeps me from trying it. As much as I hate the prospect of being bald, I would hate much worse to be fundamentally damaged as a man. To me, the risk is not worth it.

Where did you get the Spiro ?


Have you tried rogaine foam, worked WONDERS for me.

I get the spiro lotion from Dr. Lee. When I smell the jar, it smells like beer to me, but I don't notice it at all on my head and neither do my family or friends. I've heard the liquid is far more pungent but I am going to order one anyway to see for myself.

I have tried Rogaine foam. I found it made my hair too dry and stiff for my liking. But then I never liked having gel or hairspray in my hair. If you like that stiff feeling, then it would be perfect.

I am currently using Xandrox from Dr. Lee. The 5% feels like nothing in my hair. The 15% is a little more tacky, but I use it at night only anyway. Between the Xandrox (which is supposed to stop scalp conversion of T -> DHT) and the spiro (which is supposed to block systemic DHT from attaching to the receptors) I feel like am pretty well covered.

Frankly, I would probably use topical finasteride before oral; Dr. Lee makes a Xandrox product that has finasteride in it.

In any event, I will almost certainly need a hair transplant for the hair I've lost in front from the years of stubbornly refusing to use anything for my hairloss. Had I gotten on Dr. Lee's products early on, I think I would have been okay.

 

[lou123]

All of the guys I know who have used finasteride for any length of time tend to have higher body fat, moderate gyno, and seemingly little sex drive.

Ok well you just met a 40 year old guy who has been taking Propecia for almost 13 years, currently using 1.25 mg/day

I'm 5 foot 8 about 205 lbs 10-12% BF and my last set of bench presses Tuesday was 315 x 3. I can have sex 3- 4 times a day EASY, more f my GF was up for it, lol

I knwo several people in my gym on Propecia and they all seem healthy and fit to me.


How does that online consult with DR Lee go , is there a charge for it ? I want to get the topical Spiro to use with Nizoral 2% and Dr lee sells it all in one bottle.

I work 2nd shift so I put the foam in at midnight and go to bed about an hour later, then I put it on at 10am , hit the gym and wash it out at 2pm so I never have to go out with it in my hair without a hat. I can see if you had to put it in and go to work where it might be a problem, the stuff works great though and I have had significant regrowth (see link) all over including my hairline. I also use double the reccomended dosage as you can't cover your head with 1/2 capful so i use 2 cans a month.

I've had a HT and I can tell you this much doing it without FIN is VERY RISKY. I don't know how much research you have done for the HT but I have down a ton and IMO there are only 3 DR's I would let touch my head

DR Ron Shapiro in Minnesota ( be careful of a guy in Florida who is alo Dr Shapiro but is a hack)

HAsson and Wong in Vancouver

Dr Allen Feller in New York.

I have not updated my pics in a few months but the crown has filled in completely now.

Pictures by mikeb5555 - Photobucket

 

[EIC]

Pics are looking good, Lou. If propecia is working for you without negative repercussions, then I am happy for you and would keep going if I were you. For me, though, I would rather be bald than face the prospect of permanent sexual side effects. Thus, I can't ever see myself taking the plunge.

No consultation fee for Dr. Lee, but there is a $10 charge on your first order. Not a big deal. He gets back to you pretty quickly and is very friendly and straightforward. I have confidence in him.

He doesn't sell a combo of nizoral and spiro to my knowledge; you might be thinking of Dr. John. Dr. Lee sells a 5% spiro lotion, a 2% spiro liquid roll on, and a shampoo containing 2% ketoconazole and 2% salicylic acid.

I am actually planning on getting an HT from Dr. Cole in Atlanta. I have heard good things and am impressed with his work. I definitely hear you about doing an HT without propecia. I am fairly confident that I can hold the fort down with Xandrox and spiro. If not, then I will most likely have to give in and shave my head.