AlexDavis43
Member
This. To my knowledge, he still hasn't sent anything for the proposed testing.
Like, not even 1 vial.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Source QC and C of A (do you have one?)
- Thread starter readalot
- Start date
This. To my knowledge, he still hasn't sent anything for the proposed testing.
Like, not even 1 vial.
AlexDavis43
Member
The elephant in the room remains: where's the evidence of harm from these impurities (eg, the 2% in something that tested at 98%)?
We've been using gear for decades.
We've been using gear for decades.
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known Member
Particles that get filtered out. Let's say there are some heavy metals too. What percentage of that would be heavy metals and how dangerous would it be.
1-2 gram of gear a week. 2% is heavy metals... assuming you get good quality oils/solvents.
Maybe we should look at it differently and use @readalot ’s gusto to everyone’s advantage. Let him keep annoying the sources to test the impurities then nobody needs to shell out cash.
All we have to do is hold out on buying any product till they do, maybe, say 6 months; surely, the impact would be huge if Meso members only buy from sources who do the additional tests right.
Let mr. readalot bug do his thing and in the meantime we keep pretending the other things in our drugs are fairy dust to help us get swole.
Then hopefully it will end well, harm reduction while no expense on our part.
All we have to do is hold out on buying any product till they do, maybe, say 6 months; surely, the impact would be huge if Meso members only buy from sources who do the additional tests right.
Let mr. readalot bug do his thing and in the meantime we keep pretending the other things in our drugs are fairy dust to help us get swole.
Then hopefully it will end well, harm reduction while no expense on our part.
readalot
Member
PDEs:
www.pharmacalculation.com
Elemental impurities:
www.intertek.com
Residual solvents:
www.eurofins.com
www.eurofins.com
www.eurofins.com
View: https://youtu.be/9kxmXaK9uks
@BST-rawspharma
@Turkish Pharmacy
@Steroidify Rep
@hutechlabusa
@Driada Medical
@Axle Labs
@MuscleCandy
@Stanfordpharma1
@Qingdao Sigma Chemicals
@GoodLyfe
@AASraw.com
@AlexDavis43
@Spaceman Spiff
@homebrewers
@everyone
Example calculations anyone?
Permitted Daily Exposure Calculation
Pharma Calculation is a popular educational site for pharmacy students, pharmacy technicians and pharmaceutical professionals.
Elemental impurities:
USP 232 and 233 Pharmaceutical Elemental Impurity Testing
www.intertek.com
Residual solvents:
Raw Materials and Excipient Testing
Eurofins BioPharma Product Testing has a wide range of chemistry expertise and state-of-the-art instruments required to perform raw materials testing.
Eurofins BioPharma Product Testing Services
Eurofins BioPharma Product Testing provides comprehensive laboratory services to support all functional areas of bio/pharmaceutical production.
Impurities Testing for Pharmaceutical Products and APIs
Eurofins BioPharma Product Testing offers a wide range of services to support impurities testing from residual solvents to E&L and degradant-related impurities.
View: https://youtu.be/9kxmXaK9uks
@BST-rawspharma
@Turkish Pharmacy
@Steroidify Rep
@hutechlabusa
@Driada Medical
@Axle Labs
@MuscleCandy
@Stanfordpharma1
@Qingdao Sigma Chemicals
@GoodLyfe
@AASraw.com
@AlexDavis43
@Spaceman Spiff
@homebrewers
@everyone
Example calculations anyone?
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AlexDavis43
Member
So what we talking about here, in terms of end points:
Alzheimer's, cancer, or heart disease much sooner or just a little bit sooner?
On top of the gear use.
Cereal masturbator
Member
Anyone remember that guy Martin Shkreli that brought the rights for the AIDS medication and then jacked up the price by like 5000% and now he’s like universally hated
You’re the Martin Shkreli of this forum, every post I see you comment on someone’s calling you a cunt and it makes me laugh so much
You’re the Martin Shkreli of this forum, every post I see you comment on someone’s calling you a cunt and it makes me laugh so much
readalot
Member
I like this figure. Shows the behavior as one staid practice is glacially, then explosively replaced by another:
You can replace the ordinate axis name with "acceptance".
You can replace the ordinate axis name with "acceptance".
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nightprowler7
Well-known Member
How did you make it through grade school without being stuffed in a locker
readalot
Member
Too big for that. We would have been buddies LOL. Only way people can get away with that stuff is online. Easy to be/talk tough on the internet.
Funny you mention, seems like some members are still stuck mentally in grade school / Jr. High. There's always hope.
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Ok @readalot i have an actual question. You may have addressed this previously and may not have. I haven’t read every post here in your thread. I mean hell…….1/3 of them are just calling you a cunt anyway.
I understand the reasoning of testing the raws vs just the finished oils. My question is this……
Impurities or contaminants or heavy metals that may be found in raws…….what if any methodologies or processes are available to ugls to remove them? Or even reduce them to “safe” levels?
The kind of testing you propose would identify and (I hope) quantify the impurities. But is there a real actionable process to remove them?
Or is the only solution “go find better raws”?
I understand the reasoning of testing the raws vs just the finished oils. My question is this……
Impurities or contaminants or heavy metals that may be found in raws…….what if any methodologies or processes are available to ugls to remove them? Or even reduce them to “safe” levels?
The kind of testing you propose would identify and (I hope) quantify the impurities. But is there a real actionable process to remove them?
Or is the only solution “go find better raws”?
Obscured78
Well-known Member
Crazy thing is I was recently thinking this was your alt account
readalot
Member
Thank you for an excellent question. Really important concept.
The 3 tests I included above in the testing package would identify 3 groups of impurities.
1. GCMS + HPLC would identify organic compounds that aren't the active ingredient in the raw. For example, in oxandrolone synthesis one side product could be CAS Common Chemistry. These androstane variants may have much less anabolic activity than the active ingredient but I'd lump them into the not more harmful than the active ingredient pile.
2. The second impurity pile of interest are residual solvents used in the synthesis or purification steps for the raw. I've listed these in detail above (class 1, 2, 3). Residual solvent testing would audit the raws manufacturer to make sure they aren't cutting corners on the crystallization/purification step of manufacture leaving solvent in the raw that should not be there.
3. The third pile is elemental impurities (the most harmful are referred to as heavy metals). These could stem from leftover catalyst that isn't properly removed during crystallation or inappropriate material of construction for the synthesis / purification steps (corrosion or leaching from the process vessel).
So as you can see the data collected would be actionable in that piles 2 and 3 could be cleaned up using proper choice of solvents, proper crystallization and solvent removal and proper choice of materials of construction. Pile 1 is a function of conversion/selectivity of the synthesis steps.
Now whether the manufacturer would want to clean up their act if they got caught is another thing. Right now there is no process check being done. My hope is that if issues are found the consumer would have the data to pressure the manufacturers and market forces could do their job if the community truly values harm reduction.
I am skeptical the raws quality found on the ugl wholesale market rivals USP raw material. Don't trust and verify.
If 4.99% of the 5% impurity pile turns out to be pile 1 then the consumer has reasonable piece of mind. If it is class 1 or class 2 RS or class 1 metals then that data is actionable as well. I don't know why the manufacturer would clean up their act without the proper audit.
Too bad you could not read the important posts in this thread with all the litter.
Thanks again. I was hoping for these types of questions much earlier in the thread.
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readalot
Member
Thank you again for taking the time to write that out. Well done!
Will be an important point as we examine the HPLC reports shared by raw AAS manufacturers.
In your experience what is the typical bias range (purity by area count minus purity by mass ratio)? 1.5 to 3% lower by latter accurate method?
Parity Plot
What do you think about a figure showing this information? You could plot purity by mass ratio on the x axis and purity by area count on the y axis with all the data you have. Then include a line with slope of 1.
Would be an instructive tool to allow customers to understand the risk involved in trusting area count purity metrics.
Principles of Chromatography Method Development
This chapter aims to explain the key parameters of analytical method development using the chromatography techniques which are used for the identification, separation, purification, and quantitative estimation of complex mixtures of organic compounds. Mainly, the versatile techniques of...
www.intechopen.com
Fun reading:
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janoshik
Subscriber
Oh no no, nothing like that. It can easily range up to 95%. Normalisation used incorrectly can yield 100% pure result with something that has an API content of 5% and the rest is flour.
readalot
Member
Thank you. I trust people reading this feel reassured haha. I was just seeing some 100% results in some of the threads which is a big red flag and should immediately disqualify the integrity/quality of the supplier.
My failure was to drastically overestimate the integrity of some vendors.
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janoshik
Subscriber
I just tell people if their testosterone was 95% table salt, area normalisation would show it at 100% pure anyway.
Easier to imagine, less work for me.
readalot
Member
Although perhaps unclear to many, I really appreciate you reinforcing the point that sample prep/extraction plus lack of RRFs can be leveraged to obtain extremely misleading purity results. Thank you.
readalot
Member
Someone forgot to tell product development team there is no budget for quality control and testing...
#FYourTesting_JustGimmeCheapStuff
HRINO...Harm Reduction In Name Only
A source here openly states he tests his raws by sniffing them. F me.
#FYourTesting_JustGimmeCheapStuff
HRINO...Harm Reduction In Name Only
A source here openly states he tests his raws by sniffing them. F me.
AlexDavis43
Member
What are the theoretical risks?
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