Spetz bayer test/European pharm aro blood

[lucabratzi]

protocol:

Spetz bayer test e 250mg/2x a week.

European pharm aro 12.5mg/Ed

I was already on test from another company, switched to spetz bayer and ran for 3 weeks. Blood done 24hr after 250mg shot.

I was taking euro pharm aro 12.5mg/eod then switched to 12.5mg Ed. When I was taking it eod my estro was 33 now it's 20.

I'll let you guys make the assumptions. But Id say it counterfeit but w hormone.

Also how the fuck do I reduce BUN? It's going up every test.

 

[Burrr]

I think your assumption of counterfeit but with hormones is correct.

Not sure how to address your BUN, maybe it's time to cut back on protein consumption.

 

[BigDave]

protocol:

Spetz bayer test e 250mg/2x a week.

European pharm aro 12.5mg/Ed

I was already on test from another company, switched to spetz bayer and ran for 3 weeks. Blood done 24hr after 250mg shot.

I was taking euro pharm aro 12.5mg/eod then switched to 12.5mg Ed. When I was taking it eod my estro was 33 now it's 20.

I'll let you guys make the assumptions. But Id say it counterfeit but w hormone.

Also how the fuck do I reduce BUN? It's going up every test.

I agree with @burr. My BUN was about the same as yours last bloodwork (21). I did some research and the only link I could find to AAS use was related to protein intake. if you are taking orals it could be from the stress they put on the kidneys, but I was not taking any. This was an article I found that explained what BUN is and what can cause elevation.
Helped me to better understand.
http://www.rnceus.com/renal/renalbun.html

 

[Boilermech]

Thanks for getting this test done brother. Sorry to see the results come back so low.

 

[lucabratzi]

Thanks for getting this test done brother. Sorry to see the results come back so low.

Yea is what it is I guess. Just paid for some expensive and fancy lookin ugl.

I think your assumption of counterfeit but with hormones is correct.

Not sure how to address your BUN, maybe it's time to cut back on protein consumption.

I'm gonna switch to naps bayer and do a keto diet next month. I'll test again then and see if reduced protein helps

 

[Oregongearhead]

Your BUN as well as your creatinine levels should go back down after you stop your cycle . Mine go up then go back down after the cycle .

Weightlifters are well known to have elevated creatinine levels (NOT to be confused with creatine , a supplement) because of increased muscle , more creatinine is expelled from the kidneys/body ....

 

[lucabratzi]

Thanks for getting this test done brother. Sorry to see the results come back so low.

Btw when I labmaxed spetz vs naps they were very similar in flouresent. I'm curious how Ur test comes back on naps.

 

[Boilermech]

Btw when I labmaxed spetz vs naps they were very similar in flouresent. I'm curious how Ur test comes back on naps.

Me too brother. Should have results by the end of the month. It's coming up soon [emoji4]

 

[BigDave]

Hey Man, coincidentally I just got a Message from my doc related to BUN. Weird! I had an appointment yesterday to follow up on those heart palpitations I was having and she did a basic panel. She asked me if I was eating a lot of protein and when I told her 400-500g/day she said she was also going to check kidney function. I don't think you should be too concerned. Mine came in at 27, & she didn't seem worried. She said we will just check it again in 3 months, so it doesn't sound like it is an emergency or anything. Just thought I would pass this along, as probably not worth losing any sleep over.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Thanks for posting luca

I may suggest that its 3 weeks may not have been enough? It could be possible that the euro pharm test you were on was complete garbage and the Bayer amps were responsible for any elevated test reading. Im just looking for a silver lining. Still tho id like to think after 3 weeks it would show mid 3500 tt for it to be legit.

If not then indeed it must be counterfeit. I seem to recall spetz adamant about what he believed to be fact that it came straight from the pharmacy. Looks like he was duped and he passed his shit along. I know those amps were very expensive and that sure looks like a loss. Im truly sorry. Did you get your adex from him yet?

 

[lucabratzi]

Thanks for posting luca

I may suggest that its 3 weeks may not have been enough? It could be possible that the euro pharm test you were on was complete garbage and the Bayer amps were responsible for any elevated test reading. Im just looking for a silver lining. Still tho id like to think after 3 weeks it would show mid 3500 tt for it to be legit.

If not then indeed it must be counterfeit. I seem to recall spetz adamant about what he believed to be fact that it came straight from the pharmacy. Looks like he was duped and he passed his shit along. I know those amps were very expensive and that sure looks like a loss. Im truly sorry. Did you get your adex from him yet?

I was switching brands so I figured after three weeks the old company would be clear of my system and the new test was built up.

I can always get retested in a few weeks as Id like to get my other levels lower.

I'm still waiting on adex. There was a mix up w payment as he wanted me to cancel WU and send a vanilla card. I'm assuming I'll get it this week. I atleast hope so cause I'm Goin out of country on Saturday. I spoke w him yesterday and he said I should get it and that his bloods were in the 8,000's on 3 amps a week.

But I also ordered from euro pharma cause I know he's gtg and has fulfilled a bunch of my orders.

 

[insertnamehere]

@lucabratzi it's my understanding that saturation and stability occurs around the 6 week mark. If you're going to get tested anyway, maybe keeping running the bayer and see where your levels are at.

 

[Dr JIM]

protocol:

Spetz bayer test e 250mg/2x a week.

European pharm aro 12.5mg/Ed

I was already on test from another company, switched to spetz bayer and ran for 3 weeks. Blood done 24hr after 250mg shot.

I was taking euro pharm aro 12.5mg/eod then switched to 12.5mg Ed. When I was taking it eod my estro was 33 now it's 20.

I'll let you guys make the assumptions. But Id say it counterfeit but w hormone.

Also how the fuck do I reduce BUN? It's going up every test.

A few facts to remember about BUN AKA Blood Urea Nitrogen

1) Its' a byproduct of protein catabolism
2) It's correlation with renal function (GFR) is POOR

3) It is first filtered thru the glomeruli then resorbed by the "kidney tubules" then re-excreted in the "loop of Henle and finally re-absorbed in the "collecting ducts"……. YET when and how MUCH of this occurs is DEPENDENT upon a mates HYDRATION STATUS

4) So the best means of "lowering" one's BUN is thru HYDRATION!

A few facts about CREATININE

1) It's a byproduct of protein catabolism
2) It's correlation with renal function is QUITE GOOD

3) ONCE filtered thru the glomeruli no further alteration such as; resorbtion, excretion, absorption occurs (which is NOT the case with BUN!)

4) Hydration status does NOT generally effect one's creatinine level UNLEES marked reduction of GFR occurs ACUTELY (We are talking about pretty severe dehydration)

5) Creatinine levels DO NOT CORRELATE with LBM per say. Thus folks with higher LBM are NOT expected to have creatinine levels that exceed lab reference ranges. This bro science and simply not the case.
6) Of course there are exceptions, such as consuming more than FIVE GRAMS of CREATINE DAILY, BUT they are NOT the norm, period!

6) Unlike an elevated BUN which is rarely anything more than a reflection of one's hydration status and to some extent protein intake, a elevated creatinine SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED and for essentially all comers that is a creatinine that exceeds 1.5 mg/dl

Regs
jim

 

[Burrr]

Jim, regarding the eGFR, creatine and lean body mass. I've noticed that the formula for calculating the eGFR is different for black folks and white folks, supposedly because of their increased muscle mass.

There also seems to be a fair bit of anecdotal evidence that elevated creatine levels in weight lifters and bodybuilders is considered common, perhaps it's bro science, but it's out there.

http://www.doctorslounge.com/nephrology/forums/backup/topic-3464.html

"The level of serum http://www.doctorslounge.com/nephrology/labs/creatinine.htm (creatinine) is usually elevated in acute and http://www.doctorslounge.com/nephrology/diseases/crf.htm (chronic renal failure). If kidney function falls, the http://www.doctorslounge.com/nephrology/labs/creatinine.htm (creatinine) level rises. Very muscular persons, such as weight lifters may have a higher http://www.doctorslounge.com/nephrology/labs/creatinine.htm (creatinine) level, which is normal for them. "

 

[Dr JIM]

I underlined a certain portion DELIBERATELY Burr!, do read my post again so as no to propagate a myth! (YES while changes in LBM may cause a rise in serum creatinine levels that elevation does NOT EXCEED the upper lab norm reference range of roughly 1.2 mg/dl)

Yea and where did I imply, insinuate, suggest or otherwise state anything about the what happens to the creatinine level in patients with ARF or CRF?

Fact is that's WHY what I've posted is so important,,,,,,,, an elevated creatinine is indicative of INTRINSIC RENAL DISEASE, and must NEVER be attributed to alterations in LBM (unless proven otherwise)

 

[lucabratzi]

A few facts to remember about BUN AKA Blood Urea Nitrogen

1) Its' a byproduct of protein catabolism
2) It's correlation with renal function (GFR) is POOR

3) It is first filtered thru the glomeruli then resorbed by the "kidney tubules" then re-excreted in the "loop of Henle and finally re-absorbed in the "collecting ducts"……. YET when and how MUCH of this occurs is DEPENDENT upon a mates HYDRATION STATUS

4) So the best means of "lowering" one's BUN is thru HYDRATION!

A few facts about CREATININE

1) It's a byproduct of protein catabolism
2) It's correlation with renal function is QUITE GOOD

3) ONCE filtered thru the glomeruli no further alteration such as; resorbtion, excretion, absorption occurs (which is NOT the case with BUN!)

4) Hydration status does NOT generally effect one's creatinine level UNLEES marked reduction of GFR occurs ACUTELY (We are talking about pretty severe dehydration)

5) Creatinine levels DO NOT CORRELATE with LBM per say. Thus folks with higher LBM are NOT expected to have creatinine levels that exceed lab reference ranges. This bro science and simply not the case.
6) Of course there are exceptions, such as consuming more than FIVE GRAMS of CREATINE DAILY, BUT they are NOT the norm, period!

6) Unlike an elevated BUN which is rarely anything more than a reflection of one's hydration status and to some extent protein intake, a elevated creatinine SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED and for essentially all comers that is a creatinine that exceeds 1.5 mg/dl

Regs
jim

So I'll deduce I need to hydrate more. I drink a gallon of water a day plus two zero cal powerades. My doc told me I'm dehydrated too but I needed drinks like powerade and sodium. Not sure how much more I should drink.

So in Lamens terms how do I reduce creatinine levels?

 

[Jimmyhoffa59]

Hey OP do you mind posting up high resolution of the packaging your Bayer garbage came in please, I think it would benefit the community to be able to view the minute differences in a counterfeited product. It would be nice to build a directory of proper/improper packaging.

Thanks

 

[Burrr]

Here's one study, with Rugby players having an average level of 1.3, which would be at the limit or above the limit on many labs reference range.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579448/

 

[Dr JIM]

So I'll deduce I need to hydrate more. I drink a gallon of water a day plus two zero cal powerades. My doc told me I'm dehydrated too but I needed drinks like powerade and sodium. Not sure how much more I should drink.

So in Lamens terms how do I reduce creatinine levels?

Fair question but unfortunately YOU CANT mate! Here is why in layman's terms (I hope).
Protein catabolism is a relatively STATIC process and consequently creatinine levels remain relatively FIXED.

Thus the filtering (removal) of a certain amount of urine mandates the removal of a proportional quantity of creatinine.

However I suppose since AAS promote protein anabolism and diminish catabolism an initial CREATININE reduction could be observed. However that change must be relatively small when compared to the overall increase in LBM achieved from AAS use. So the Catabolic/Anabolic processes are offsetting, if you like, with no net effect on serum creatinine concentrations.

BUN, hmm who cares mate? I say that bc there are so many inconsequential physiologic processes that effect BUN levels, why chase a non-entity!

 

[Dr JIM]

Here's one study, with Rugby players having an average level of 1.3, which would be at the limit or above the limit on many labs reference range.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579448/

That's NOT 1.5 BURR and Rhabdomyolysis is the most likely causation in that instance BURR not some simplified change in LBM! The latter has been observed in many contact sports and is almost always reversible, manifested by normalization of creatinine levels.

Do you have any idea why patients with Rhabdomyolysis may develop an elevated serum creatinine BURR? Hint it's NOT bc of changes in LBM