Steroid Lab Testing - Purpose of Forum and New Thread Title Formatting

[Millard]

Why the "Steroid Lab Testing" subforum was created?

The "labmax" and "mass spec" threads have a whole lot of data about various products. Unfortunately, it's was often difficult to find specific results once they became buried in the thread. In order to improve accessibility (and google indexing) of this data, MESO has created a dedicated subforum for the reports.

"Steroid Lab Testing" subforum guidelines

The "steroid lab testing" subforum is only for threads containing analytical reports related to steroid products e.g. mass spectrometry, Labmax, serum, etc

IMPORTANT: Each new report must be posted in its own thread for discussion. The recommended title format is one that that identifies important keywords of interest. Please post all new threads using the following recommended title format:

[lab name] [product name] - [type of testing e.g. labmax/GC/MS/serum] - [date of testing yyyy-mm] [performed by (who performed testing)]

 

[Capt Forest]

great to see this happen. Should old data be reposted here?

 

[pumpingiron22]

Awesome[emoji106]

 

[Millard]

great to see this happen. Should old data be reposted here?

I don't see why not. What do you think?

 

[Capt Forest]

I think it is fine. The more information the better. Thats how i see it.

 

[pmac928]

This is great Millard! Progress not perfection!

 

[Arnold Strong]

Very nice. Those gigantic threads are, indeed, full of great information, but get hard to navigate past certain point.

 

[brutus79]

great to see this happen. Should old data be reposted here?

We would love if you would take care of that captain!

Thanks Millard

 

[ebkallday]

Millard, thank you once again for a great step in the evolution of this great board.

EBK

 

[whodatnation]

Yes indeed this is a wonderful idea and no ones hard work will get buried again by questions on what source is good to go.

 

[devildog93]

I just wanted to say that i think this section is going to be huge. Even if all we can post up is bloodwork then eventually this section will fill out with a lot of good information. Add a few mass specs and some labmax results and that is just icing on the cake. It would be really nice if this section turned out to be "the place" to go for testing info on sources.

I see what has gone on with eroids and another board and i wonder if that will happen here though. Sources flooding the section with all kinds of photoshopped tests, tests of one thing while they are sellling another,etc. I guess we will always have to consider the source with testing info.

 

[bickel29]

I see what has gone on with eroids and another board and i wonder if that will happen here though. Sources flooding the section with all kinds of photoshopped tests, tests of one thing while they are sellling another,etc. I guess we will always have to consider the source with testing info.

Well, to answer your question devildog, yes, of course we will see some of that! But, I believe that we all need to keep some things in mind regarding the "legitimacy" and "integrity" of the results posted here.

**this forum is completely uncensored, for better or worse. Without a doubt, the member viewing each result posted here will have to ask themselves the obvious questions regarding the motivation and integrity of the person posting the results. The great news is, we each have the opportunity to ask these questions without censorship or repercussion.

**yes, we are going to see bogus and/or altered results, no doubt. But the experienced AAS user knows that we are looking for MULTIPLE results for the same product (a consensus, if you will). The dialog will reflect this, the members here will express this within the thread.

**the members here will police this and hold each other accountable. It will not stop it from happening, but it will guarantee that it is highlighted when it happens.

 

[devildog93]

I've been thinking about that a while as well. It seems to me that if we could get 3 people to order and test from the same source we could pretty much eliminate the source and any credibility he would have attacking testing of his product. Of course that would require people to agree on a product and to test independently. I would think even 3 independent sets of blood work would be enough to sink a bad source without much of a question.

That being said, it is still just an attack on the negative side of things and doesn't get us ultimately where we want to go, which is a consistent product that is what it says it is and at the dosage it states. Maybe once the sources thinned out from aggressive testing the cream would rise to the top.

I actually hate being Mr. Negative all the time, but the shitty business practices of most sources and lack of quality control pretty much ensure the tone. The last mass spec i saw where the purity was over 80% was with HTP. I can't remember the last set of bloods that was where it was supposed/expected to be.

 

[bickel29]

Yes sir, devildog, good points. Some things to consider:

**we do not want to be too outspoken in deciding who and what to test (your example of 3 members agreeing on the same item). It could tip off the source if they followed the thread and they could make sure to ship out the 'top shelf' stuff to those members.

**hopefully we will have enough participation from enough members that consensus's will naturally occur

**I understand your feelings that it is an attack to the negative if we are seeing a bunch of negative results, but what if we are seeing a bunch of positive results from a source? It can/will work both ways, no?

 

[devildog93]

It can definitely work both ways. I was basically just sounding off about the negativity we see here a lot. Most of it is justified. If sources sucked less, we would tend to be more positive i think.

You make a good point about deciding who and what to test. You're right...it can't happen like that. The only way it could happen like that is if people went behind the scenes and agreed to secret shop a source so to speak. And yes, hopefully enough participation will make that unnecessary.

I think the labmax tests are out there and the info. is available to everyone. I think the bloodwork info. isn't posted on enough. I am primarily going to attack it from that end. I think that is the one thing we can do that a credible lab will be behind with zero issues. I hope mass spec becomes more readily available, but until it does pretty much anyone can get a labmax kit and bloodwork done. I feel like that is probably the bare minimum with still being responsible at all.

 

[Millard]

@devildog93 and @bickel29 , Yes, the results must absolutely be repeated and confirmed.

For any given product, I agree that it is good to have a minimum of three different indviduals acquire samples independently. Unfortunately, in the absence of an identifiable, independent and accredited analytical lab, there will also be questions about who is performing or vouching for the the analyses. The use of anonymous labs doesn't help.

This means that multiple individuals would be needed for the lab analyses as well.

I'm surprised more people don't take advantage of labmax. There was a recent case where two MESO members reported some poor results on Anadrol pills (among other things) using labmax. It seemed like it would be quite easy for any of the (hundreds of) people who have purchased Anadrol from the same source to perform labmax test of the product in question. Why didn't this happen? Will it happen? It would definitely help answer questions about the reliability of labmax. Of course, independent mass specs of the pills would move toward the accuracy of labmax.

 

[bickel29]

@devildog93 and @bickel29 , Yes, the results must absolutely be repeated and confirmed.

For any given product, I agree that it is good to have a minimum of three different indviduals acquire samples independently. Unfortunately, in the absence of an identifiable, independent and accredited analytical lab, there will also be questions about who is performing or vouching for the the analyses. The use of anonymous labs doesn't help.

This means that multiple individuals would be needed for the lab analyses as well.

I'm surprised more people don't take advantage of labmax. There was a recent case where two MESO members reported some poor results on Anadrol pills (among other things) using labmax. It seemed like it would be quite easy for any of the (hundreds of) people who have purchased Anadrol from the same source to perform labmax test of the product in question. Why didn't this happen? Will it happen? It would definitely help answer questions about the reliability of labmax. Of course, independent mass specs of the pills would move toward the accuracy of labmax.

I am with ya, Millard. This is why, early on in that thread, I strongly urged more members who had those same pills from that source to please either test, or have them tested. My trust in the individuals we are talking about meant nothing in the big picture. What mattered was gathering as many test results as possible - that was going to be the only way to strengthen the case.

We as a community must accept the fact that we can trust each other as much as we want, but beyond our board, our handle means nothing. Quantifiable and verifiable results are what will carry the most weight.

 

[devildog93]

I honestly don't care what anyone on a sponsored board thinks about anything we do here. They are paid by sources, so they automatically have a conflict of interest.

 

[bickel29]

I honestly don't care what anyone on a sponsored board thinks about anything we do here. They are paid by sources, so they automatically have a conflict of interest.

Unfortunately, though, Devildog, these 2 members here were making those claims against a lab with its own board. It was a losing situation against THAT board to begin with.
However, what was (and is) their "evidence" that this claim was unfounded = that NO ONE ELSE claimed to have received bunk orals, because no one else had gear that tested out bunk.

That is where I was really hoping that more members would have possessed orals for testing.

 

[Millard]

I am with ya, Millard. This is why, early on in that thread, I strongly urged more members who had those same pills from that source to please either test, or have them tested. My trust in the individuals we are talking about meant nothing in the big picture. What mattered was gathering as many test results as possible - that was going to be the only way to strengthen the case.

We as a community must accept the fact that we can trust each other as much as we want, but beyond our board, our handle means nothing. Quantifiable and verifiable results are what will carry the most weight.

Exactly. You articulated the issue very clearly.

If someone you or I trust performs a test it may be good enough for us. But if we want to have a larger impact that reduces harm across the community at large, there needs to be quantifiable and verifiable results!

I am by no means trying to discourage any of the efforts to help the close-knit community here at MESO. But wouldn't it be nice if we could also help others outside of the MESO community too?