undersc0re
Member
Is it normal to get pip when switching from test cyp to test enanthate? I am still pinning the same general 6 areas.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Switched to test enanthate now pip
- Thread starter undersc0re
- Start date
Ghoul
Member
Yes. Test-E has been pip inducing trash for years.
BigDadd7
Member
Who could have seen this coming?
undersc0re
Member
Alright thx for your input
lukiss96
Member
It's true. I had to get rid off a lot of useless test e which I got for great price few years ago.
ineffectual
Member
I'm still pinning some qsc test e and it only hurts for a few days after.
AllGoodThings
Member
I've exclusively used test enanthate for over a decade, with no pip or other problems. I've heard others complain plenty though, so people do have issues with it. The recent test E I've used has come from Opti and Stan, and both have been pain free.
This is likely to be largely meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but one reason I prefer enanthate over cypionate is because it's a simpler ester. Cypionate has a cyclopentyl ring, whereas enanthate is a simpler straight seven carbon chain. There was a recent study showing cypionate to have significantly lower peak serum levels when compared to enanthate. Theoretically, phosphodiesterase 7b, the cleaving enzyme that is responsible for removing the ester, has difficulty dealing with the bulky cyclopentyl ring present in cypionate. This applies to esters like phenylpropionate as well, which is commonly present in NPP and testosterone phenylpropionate, a test ester found in Sustanon.
This is testosterone enanthate:
And testosterone cypionate:
The three dimensional images give a bit more insight.
Here is testosterone enanthate:
And testosterone cypionate:
I could be wrong about all of this, so feel free to correct me. These theories were based on just a single study as far as I know, but the reasoning made sense to me. If enanthate causes too much pip to use, obviously none of this matters, but I thought it interesting enough to share.
This is likely to be largely meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but one reason I prefer enanthate over cypionate is because it's a simpler ester. Cypionate has a cyclopentyl ring, whereas enanthate is a simpler straight seven carbon chain. There was a recent study showing cypionate to have significantly lower peak serum levels when compared to enanthate. Theoretically, phosphodiesterase 7b, the cleaving enzyme that is responsible for removing the ester, has difficulty dealing with the bulky cyclopentyl ring present in cypionate. This applies to esters like phenylpropionate as well, which is commonly present in NPP and testosterone phenylpropionate, a test ester found in Sustanon.
This is testosterone enanthate:
And testosterone cypionate:
The three dimensional images give a bit more insight.
Here is testosterone enanthate:
And testosterone cypionate:
I could be wrong about all of this, so feel free to correct me. These theories were based on just a single study as far as I know, but the reasoning made sense to me. If enanthate causes too much pip to use, obviously none of this matters, but I thought it interesting enough to share.
dinfar1337
New Member
hello. i dont think its a marginally big difference if theres any at all. if anything just knowing test e is 70% bioavailiabe and test c is 60% bioavailibe is probably more important.
and fuck i cant spell bioavailibe lmao
ive been switching for the last 5 years through test e/c. no marginal big difference. im pinning 0.05ml more on test c on trt tho!
test e pip can leave a big lump.
test c pip leaves a little sore lump.
i dont really notice it unless i touch it so i never care
Reference?
dinfar1337
New Member
yes i would like the reference aswell.
i looked it up but it seemed like only small and bad studies had taken a look at it, nothing significant.
Flies in the face of significant PK studies done on this topic. Very curious to learn.
eery
Member
are you referencing the case study that kurt havens did that still have not been published anywhere? something to the sound of "testosterone cypionate vs enanthate, a case study
wouldnt we have seen this in TRT users and bloodwork from lifters and coaches anecdotally?
If it is Havens I will not accept it.
AllGoodThings
Member
The actual study is yet to be published, but starting at 1:01:24 the relevant discussion begins.
View: https://youtu.be/1WV3xTmvPD0?si=PBCnDD3TtXv81uFu
I know many will want to summarily dismiss this due to the source, but the middle gentleman, Dr Dean St Mart, is someone I respect and value the opinions of.
From Dr Dean's website:
"I hold a Double 1st Class Honours degree in Chemistry and Pharmaceutical Chemistry from National University of Ireland Maynooth (where I finished top of the university), and hold a PhD in Synthetic Organic Chemistry and Fluorescence Spectroscopy."
So his background would make you assume he at least has some ability to reasonably speculate on this subject.
Kurt Havens has some questionable takes on quite a few things, but I try my best not to throw the baby out with the bath water, so I'll usually give a listen to these roundtable discussions and draw my own conclusions.
No disrespect to you Sir. I have covered Havens' claims and bluntly they are without merit.
BP_6
Member
Kind of confused here. People have been using test E for decades with zero issues. It is by far more popular worldwide vs cyp. Now all of a sudden people are saying it is bad and always hurts?! WTF seriously. If a particular manufacturer does a poor job with the raw material manufacturing, that doesn't mean the product is inherently bad or painful.
