Test and e2 good. Libido in the trash

[Seanz]

I posted this on a Canadian forum. But I know there's a ton of knowledge here too. Thanks for reading

Hey guys. I managed to hustle my doc for some blood work. He only gave me a requisite for Testosterone and Estradiol. My results shocked me as i FEEL really imbalanced. here are my numbers.

-Blood work taken a month POST PCT
Estradiol 101 >157 (pmol/l)
Testosterone 28.8 range reference is 8.4-28.8 (nmol/l)

(Ill also note, that blood work I got a couple weeks prior to this for cholesterol, thyroid and liver all came back looking "perfect" in my doctors words. Don't know if this makes a difference?)

As you can see, my e2 seems to be in mid range (google says 48-156 is normal for male my age (30)) And my Testosterone is on the highest end of the scale (within normal range)
Still, my labido is far from normal. Also, i feel "off". irritable, foggy etc. (feels like high or low e2) Nipples not itchy or developing any new mass. Gyno is preexisting and hasn't gotten much worse.

My last cycle was a blast n cruise. i was on for almost a yr.. say 10 months. blast was Test e @750mg/wk cruise was Test e@ 200mg/wk. The only reason i chose to cruise was because i didn't want to come off and start PCT in a fragile stage of my current relationship. Shes a really good woman and I didn't want to fuck it up. (I don't cope well during PCT lol)

My PCT was as follows
1000iu HCG ed for 10 days
Then clomid 4 wks 100/50/50/50
with Nolv 4wks 40/20/20/20

Now i have a hunch that there may be some prolactin issues here, and if it doesn't balance out, will press the doc for related bloods. What also makes me think about prolactin, is that whenever i hop on cycle, i can sometimes squeeze a bit of liquid from the ol titties...

Currently, after seeing my test was in high ranges, and being comfortable with that, I have started taking some Proviron(Teragon) @50mg ed. (started yesterday) in hopes that it will give me a boost. I heard some guys will take this for a labido boost both on and even off cycle. I also understand it is not very suppressive at moderate doses and that was the biggest seller for me. I normally wouldn't want to put anything in my system at this point, but my lack of libido is really starting to create tension with the woman. I havnt serviced her for over 2 weeks, and that was with a cialis induced half chub and it wasnt very enjoyable. My mind seems like it has completely forgotten about sex.. id rather do laundry than get laid... sad..

Has anyone ever experienced this? What do you think? Any advice would be much appreciated. I think it will balance itself out, but I fear it may be at price. And it's not a price i'm willing to pay.


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[master.on]

You are using way too much SERMs
Clomid is WAY inferior to Nolva, so ditch Clomid
Hormonal effects of an antiestrogen, tamoxifen, in normal and oligospermic men. - PubMed - NCBI

5 mg Nolva is enough to slowly rise Testosterone
Effect of lower versus higher doses of tamoxifen on pituitary-gonadal function and sperm indices in oligozoospermic men. - PubMed - NCBI
So taper down to 5 mg Nolva for 1 month
Get new bloodwork

You may need tiny HCG doses again
How long ago did you use HCG?
Were you on HCG during the blood tests?

 

[Seanz]

As I stated above. Bloods were taken one month post pct... no serms are being taken as bloods say they are not needed. And 5mg nolva for pct is the first I've heard of it. I'd have to split a pill into 1/4. Every standard nolva protocol calls for at least 20mg.


No offence bro but did you read what I posted? All of your questions have been answered in the OP..

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[master.on]

It is puzzling but real
low libido with normal T and E2
As they look at normal labs, most doctors will say everything is in your head
and prescribe viagra or an antidepressant

SERMs can kill libido so it's better to use lower doses.
Yes 5 mg Nolva works to rise T. There's a study about it.

Did you get a boner from Proviron?

 

[Seanz]

Proviron did help.

My test levels are at the very top of "normal" ranges though. So I don't know why I'd need to raise it.

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[Seanz]

I haven't been on any SERM since a month before the blood test.

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[master.on]

Proviron did help.

My test levels are at the very top of "normal" ranges though. So I don't know why I'd need to raise it.

Normal hormone levels yet perceived hypogonadism
That's why it is puzzling.
The medical establishment still refuses to accept there is a problem

So there are only 2 possibilities
1 either the androgen receptors downregulated or reduced their function somehow
2 steroid use caused ED by a different mechanism

So there are 2 treatments
1 increase T levels even further or add additional androgenic substances like proviron, to compensate for reduced activity in the body
2 a different, non T or E2 related ED treatment

 

[Seanz]

I have been looking into side effects cause by SSRI medication. I came off Effexor about 4 or 5 months ago because it made me drowsy and difficult to cum. Honestly I think my levels are fine, and my issue may be serotonin related.

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[master.on]

I have been looking into side effects cause by SSRI medication. I came off Effexor about 4 or 5 months ago because it made me drowsy and difficult to cum. Honestly I think my levels are fine, and my issue may be serotonin related.

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Maybe
SSRIs are known to cause ED
but I guess you needed SSRI meds because something was already going wrong in your body back then, and it only got worse

By the way
Most SSRI peddlers (even if they are doctors) tout serotonin as a good thing, even as the "happiness neurotransmitter"
when it may be actually the other way around
Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation
Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

Do you honestly think you have some signs of low metabolism?
Be aware that a low metabolism is usually compensated by excess stress hormones that may give the (wrong) idea that you actually have a racing metabolism
Feeling weak after eating can help differentiate an excess of stress hormones from a true healthy metabolism.

 

[Seanz]

I think my metabolism is fine. In fact it's always been pretty high. I'm what you call a "hard gainer". I could eat cheeseburgers all day and the only thing that would get big from it are my biceps lol (kidding)

I used an SSRI called Celexa for years prior to switching over to effexor. I went to effexor because I didn't feel like Celexa was really making a difference and wanted to take a shot at something slightly different and stronger. The Dr said it does the same thing as Celexa, but just in a different way. I'm thinking this "different way" is the culprit and may have blocked some receptors relating to whichever part of the brain fires the libido. Apperently effexor is one of the nastiest ssri out there and the sides are brutal. I wish I had never touched it. I feel the same highs and lows OFF of effexor as I did while I was on. I used it for about a year.

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[master.on]

I think steroids weren't the ONLY cause of your ED
I suspect needing SSRIs were a missed warning that something was already going wrong with your body.

So I'd keep on using Proviron but use a little Nolva or even HCG to make sure Proviron doesn't get T levels too low

besides ED, Proviron seems to help a bit with depression
In one small scale clinical trial of depressed patients, an improvement of symptoms which included anxiety, lack of drive and desire was observed.[2] In patients with dysthymia, unipolar, and bipolar depression significant improvement was observed.[2] In this series of studies, mesterolone lead to a significant decrease in LH and testosterone levels. In another study, 100 mg mesterolone cypionate was administered twice monthly. With regards to plasma T levels, there was no difference between the treated vs untreated group, and baseline LH levels were minimally affected.[
Mesterolone - Wikipedia
During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.
The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study). - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Seanz]

Thanks for your insight. Greatly appreciated.

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[Savagesteve]

I think my metabolism is fine. In fact it's always been pretty high. I'm what you call a "hard gainer". I could eat cheeseburgers all day and the only thing that would get big from it are my biceps lol (kidding)

I used an SSRI called Celexa for years prior to switching over to effexor. I went to effexor because I didn't feel like Celexa was really making a difference and wanted to take a shot at something slightly different and stronger. The Dr said it does the same thing as Celexa, but just in a different way. I'm thinking this "different way" is the culprit and may have blocked some receptors relating to whichever part of the brain fires the libido. Apperently effexor is one of the nastiest ssri out there and the sides are brutal. I wish I had never touched it. I feel the same highs and lows OFF of effexor as I did while I was on. I used it for about a year.

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While everyone is different I was also on venlafaxine (Effexor) and while not on cycle I had 0 labido and in addition to it making my vision worse. I also had terrible withdrawal symptoms if I didnt take it for a couple days. My doc switched me to symbalta (spelling?) and I'm gtg now.

 

[Seanz]

While everyone is different I was also on venlafaxine (Effexor) and while not on cycle I had 0 labido and in addition to it making my vision worse. I also had terrible withdrawal symptoms if I didnt take it for a couple days. My doc switched me to symbalta (spelling?) and I'm gtg now.

You have no idea the relief it brings to hear someone has a similar experience. I'm going to talk to the doc (if I can ever get into see him) asap

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[ddp7]

I think in my case is the "no porn mode", really. But if i stay in stripers club, dont think have a erection problem

Maybe tamoxifen help with this mental stress.

What do you think?.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Bro I feel you. I've recovered after blasting and cruising for years (4 - 5 years) but libido was non existent, I believe it's slowly coming back... verrrry slowly even after having balanced hormones for a while. I believe it's all in the brain, proviron helped me massively but not bringing a libido like I once had. Time mate... don't obsess on it and don't have a tug... at all!!! Haha.

 

[ddp7]

.

I think in my case is the "no porn mode", really. But if i stay in stripers club, dont think have a erection problem

Maybe tamoxifen help with this mental stress.

What do you think?.

Great,thanks.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Ddp tamoxifen makes u paranoid, doubt things, doubt yourself and give u anxiety. I've had loads... clomid is much worse but tamox is defo the best for hpta restoration

 

[Seanz]

Apperently tamoxifen can also have ED sides though. Haha. Fucked either way (or not).

It's the same for me too bro. Proviron helps alot but it is nothing like it used to be .
I used to get wood just laying on the couch alone and getting comfortable. Now I gotta stimulate the shit and think happy thoughts if I want to make something happen.

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[ddp7]

Ddp tamoxifen makes u paranoid, doubt things, doubt yourself and give u anxiety. I've had loads... clomid is much worse but tamox is defo the best for hpta restoration

Thanks, no problem. Seems to be that tamoxifen with some proviron, does the trick in a better way.

Apperently tamoxifen can also have ED sides though. Haha. Fucked either way (or not).

It's the same for me too bro. Proviron helps alot but it is nothing like it used to be .
I used to get wood just laying on the couch alone and getting comfortable. Now I gotta stimulate the shit and think happy thoughts if I want to make something happen.

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Thanks for the details.