Testosterone needed?

[Sworder]

Was thinking for next cycle to just run Tren and Deca. Skip the test, Tren will do the dirty work on the ARs and Deca will help for joint support and some estrogen conversion that way I don't have to spend money on AI and on the test.

I probably won't do this but I like contemplating ideas..

What are your opinions on this?

If argument is that testosterone is needed for libido what makes testosterone special that it is the only androgen that can bind to libido specific ARs? I am starting to believe testosterone is overrated in regards to libido!

 

[Reinheart]

I believe that combining Tren and Deca is crude practice but if you decide to do it then make sure you have anti-dopamine medication on hand. You should also know that recovery is going to be hard.

Personally, I don't respond to testosterone much so i much prefer to use d-bol instead. I get all the benefits with little shut-down but hey, everyone's different. I would say go for it. A small dosage per week like 200-300mgs is enough for what you want it.

 

[Sworder]

HCG should be good for most of the testosterone. 1k/week should suffice, 2 5k vials for a 8weeker. I have caber for dopamine agonist activity!

 

[Reinheart]

HCG should be good for most of the testosterone. 1k/week should suffice, 2 5k vials for a 8weeker. I have caber for dopamine agonist activity!

Then go for it!

 

[Sworder]

Yeah, was hoping for more of a discussion though about not including testosterone in cycles.. Using hCG as the lone aromatase compound or something fun.

 

[mac111]

I wouldn't mate, you could end up feeling really crappy while on and recovery would be also tough on that combo

 

[mac111]

I get where you're coming from on test being overrated for libido but it's responsible for a lot more than that. Tren actually gives me a horn test would be proud of!

 

[leoclaw79]

i dont think a lack of test alone would cause libido issues. it usually seems to be lack of estrogen. feel like a small amount of dbol would work well with that cycle for estrogen and non-AR mediated activity.

 

[Sworder]

The amount of Deca/Tren I would be doing is probably 400mg/500mg. If I would throw test in there I would probably run it at 500-750mg but I feel that the testosterone isn't doing much work and am just running too much at that point. I don't want to run the Deca any less than 300mg and Tren no less than 400mg. Could do a 250 Test/300 Deca/400 Tren combo along with hCG.
I could exchange the Deca with EQ for the joint support but EQ isn't really as anabolic like I would want it to be, and the compensation of upping my testosterone or tren would contribute to an equal shutdown.
We will see what I do, honestly it doesn't even matter that much. I just need to figure out how to eat more. GHRP-6 is nice, also throwing oats in my bedtime and mid-night shakes helps a lot!

 

[Dr JIM]

Come on LC "you didn't think lack of testosterone alone would cause libido issues" (I actually suspect you know better), lol
It's probabaly the most common organic causation which is one reason males are supplementing lower end levels. E-2 as an etiology for SD is bro science with little to no data which supports this contention in developed males, yet depressed levels of test have a PROVEN connection to SD!
Consequently S-man if you run both of these ansbolics simultaneously your manhood will be enbalmed and then entombed until the cycle is completed AND HTPA recovery has neared completion UNLESS you use HCG.

 

[foreveryoung]

my experience tells me that you are headed for libido/function disaster with long cycles that don't include testosterone

 

[Sworder]

I don't think I will have any problem on cycle with libido. Tren usually skyrockets my libido, of course PCT is usually always tough with Tren/Deca! I don't know where the notion that you need testosterone for libido comes from? You need androgens, don't know about testosterone specifically.

Last cycle I ran Tren E and 1000mg Test, @ 6 week mark I stopped the Tren E and didn't have any tren A on hand to finish the cycle up. Test Prop was still running at a gram but as the tren was leaving my system my libido died. That was with a lot of testosterone still in my system. I think tren's affinity for androgen specific tissue solves the libido problem. Also, why my libido died when tren was stopped and I still was running testosterone at a high level is because I think that the body becomes desensitized. Same reason to why if you would run 500mg test/500mg tren for 4 weeks then drop the tren and continue the testosterone your gains will stop drastically compared to if you had run 500mg testosterone the whole time.

This is all guessing and thoughts I am sharing. Nothing based on facts!

 

[solo47]

To my mind, Deca and Tren are anything but synergistic and are likely to augment each other in negative ways. Test itself is probably the best thing for mood and motivation (though Masteron rates up there, too), so I don't know why you'd deny yourself that. Almost all AAS are just derivative or variations on testosterone in any case, either amping up the androgens (Tren) or attempting to avoid some of the unwanted side effects (EQ, Primo, etc.).

But of course, a guy has to experiment, so go do your thing and come back the wiser.

Solo

 

[Sworder]

my experience tells me that you are headed for libido/function disaster with long cycles that don't include testosterone

What did you experience? I haven't heard any 1st person accounts on libido suffering from no testosterone when trenbolone is included. Neither on tren only cycles! Maybe I need to learn to use the search function better..

 

[Sworder]

Testosterone is indeed great for increasing mood and well being. Trenbolone and poor mental health isn't the greatest combination Like I said though, will probably run the testosterone but it is great hearing insight from so many people!!

 

[leoclaw79]

never said that E2 had a specific role in sex drive. i was only saying that if your estrogen is too low, libido may be lost maybe because it's not healthy to have zero estrogen. so in your opinion, would one experience lack of libido on a dbol/tren cycle?

 

[Dr JIM]

ANY cycle that flattens testosterone production to near zero will most certainly effect libido, even if the drugs being cycled are in part converted to DHT (like Tren) imparting an androgenic effect. Cycle Tren (without testosterone or HCG supplementation) for four weeks, about the amount of time needed to shrink your testes to "pea sized" and you will see, I promise, LMAO!
[)]

 

[Sworder]

ANY cycle that flattens testosterone production to near zero will most certainly effect libido, even if the drugs being cycled are in part converted to DHT (like Tren) imparting an androgenic effect. Cycle Tren (without testosterone or HCG supplementation) for four weeks, about the amount of time needed to shrink your testes to "pea sized" and you will see, I promise, LMAO!
[)]

Jim, is it your opinion that testosterone is the only androgen which can stimulate libido specific tissue??

 

[Sworder]

Interesting article!

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/84/10/3459.full (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators (SARMs): A Novel Approach to Androgen Therapy for the New Millennium)

 

[leoclaw79]

so are you saying that if test were included, the testicular shrinkage would not be as bad as if test werent included?