Tren - High Prolactin

T-Diddy

New Member
Currently have high prolactin levels - Believe the "acceptable" range was between 0 - 15. First test came back with 19, doctor had me test again following week and came back with 21. That said, doctor is having me do an MRI. Notably I do not have any known current side effects from high prolactin. Being a wonderful Canadian health care system, I probably won't have an MRI for about 8 months.

Trying to plan my next cycle here, with high prolactin levels is Tren advisable? I am trying to stay away from non-aromatizing compounds with recently having gyno surgery (from pubescent, not AAS induced).

If Tren is not in the cards, thinking Mast/Primo stack - looking to put on some quality lean mass.
 
Estridol came back within normal range. Whether it was low, med, or high of the 'normal' range... I forget Dr. Just stated well within acceptable range and became focused on prolactin.
 
Currently have high prolactin levels - Believe the "acceptable" range was between 0 - 15. First test came back with 19, doctor had me test again following week and came back with 21. That said, doctor is having me do an MRI. Notably I do not have any known current side effects from high prolactin. Being a wonderful Canadian health care system, I probably won't have an MRI for about 8 months.

Trying to plan my next cycle here, with high prolactin levels is Tren advisable? I am trying to stay away from non-aromatizing compounds with recently having gyno surgery (from pubescent, not AAS induced).

If Tren is not in the cards, thinking Mast/Primo stack - looking to put on some quality lean mass.

Although a prolactin of 21 may be out of your labs reference range is most certainly is NOT considered high from a medical perspective.

The reference range most labs use is greater than 20ng/ml but even then no further investigation is needed excluding perhaps a repeat level in a 2-3 months.

An MRI is overkill IMO and simply not needed, unless you have symptoms of a prolactioma which is unheard of until the level is above 50 ng/ml for even very small "micro adenomas".

Finally 19-nor AAS do NOT raise prolactin levels especially to a symptomatic range

Are you taking any other medications?

Why did you have a prolactin level performed.
 
I hear a lot of guys talking about how 19nor steroids don't raise prolactin and then I hear even more talking about how it does. William Llewellyn's book ANABOLICS says they do elevate prolactin so there is literature saying it does happen. I would like to see some more definitive proof that it doesn't.
 
You really don't have a problem unless your range is in the hundreds. Exercise, stress, certain meds, obviously some steroids will elevate prolactin but nowhere near a problematic level. ESTROGEN raises prolactin as well and is the main cause of concern since e2 can cause gyno and sexual dysfunction at levels easily attained in an aromatizing steroid cycle. People see prolactin elevated in their panel, know that tren causes a slight boost in prolactin and since prolactin causes lactation in women they think that is where their tits are coming from. It is the e2. It is always the e2. This prolactin or deca tren myth came about for the aforementioned reason and became revered bro lore. The below blurb came from pituitary.org and illustrates the MUCH HIGHER levels than have been mentioned or experienced in a steroid cycle setting, and while the levels in the hundreds can cause sexual dysfunction the primary concern of the physician is that you may have a pituitary tumor- not that you are gonna grow tits. Hopefully this helps- I know it isn't a clinical study, but the information is relevant and easy to read. I am too fucking tired to do more digging through the mountain of shit I read about it before deciding to never take caber on cycle.

Prolactinomas

These pituitary tumors (also called adenomas) secrete excessive amounts of prolactin and are the most common type of pituitary tumor seen clinically. Prolactin is the hormone that stimulates milk production by the breasts. Prolactin-producing tumors exist "silently" in up to 5-10% of the adult population. Prolactinomas generally have very different presentations in women and in men. In women, relatively small elevations in prolactin cause irregular menstrual periods or complete loss of menses (amenorrhea), ability to ovulate (remain fertile) and may cause milky discharge from the breasts (galactorrhea). In addition, women may have a reduction in their sex drive. The normal prolactin level is < 20 ng/ml. In most women the tumors are detected when they are small (microadenomas) and the prolactin level is only moderately elevated (30 - 300 ng/ml). In contrast, in men prolactinomas are usually not detected until they are large (macroadenomas), most have prolactin levels over 500 ng/ml. Most men diagnosed with a prolactinoma have some degree of loss of sex hormone production. They may also have visual loss (from compression of the optic nerves or optic chiasm) and/or headache. A minority of patients with large tumors may have bleeding into the tumor (pituitary apoplexy) causing relatively sudden onset of headache, visual loss, double vision, and/or pituitary failure.

DIAGNOSISHormonal Diagnosis

The diagnosis of a prolactinoma is confirmed by demonstrating persistently elevated blood levels of prolactin. A prolactin level of over 150-200 ng/ml is almost always due to a prolactin secreting pituitary adenoma. In all patients with suspected pituitary tumors, a complete pituitary hormone evaluation should be performed. This testing is especially important in patients with potentially large tumors who are likely to have some degree of pituitary failure (hypopituitarism). It is important to note that moderate elevations of prolactin (30 - 200 ng/ml) can occur as a result of several other causes, which must be excluded prior to invoking a pituitary tumor. The most common causes are listed below:

pregnancy or in the post-partum periodstress (discomfort, exercise, low blood sugar)low thyroid function (hypothyroidism)kidney failureliver failuremedications (such as anti-ulcer and antidepressants)"stalk effect"

The "stalk effect": This may be seen with any disease within or near the pituitary gland and stalk that interferes with the delivery of dopamine (a neurotransmitter) from the hypothalamus to the prolactin secreting cells of the pituitary. Therefore, other types of pituitary adenomas, craniopharyngiomas or other tumors or masses may cause modest elevations in prolactin.

The "hook effect": In patients with very large prolactinomas, the initial prolactin level may be read erroneously as normal or only mildly elevated. In such patients, it is important to confirm that the laboratory performed multiple dilutions of the blood sample to avoid this error known as the "hook effect". When dilutions are performed on such a blood specimen, the actual prolactin level may be much higher.

Imaging

Most prolactinomas can be visualized on both MRI and CT scans of the pituitary gland. Such scans should be performed without and following contrast administration.

TREATMENTMedical Therapy

In general, the first line of treatment for patients with a prolactinoma is medical rather than surgical. Approximately 80% of patients will have their prolactin levels restored to normal with dopamine agonist therapy. The most commonly used agents are bromocriptine (Parlodel) or cabergoline (Dostinex). Most women also have a return of menses and many become fertile again. The size of the prolactinoma will be reduced in the majority of patients to varying degrees, which often results in improved vision and resolution of headaches.

Bromocriptine is generally instituted slowly to minimize side effects. It is recommended that treatment be initiated with no more than one 2.5mg tablet per day at mealtime. This will minimize the major side effect of nausea and gastrointestinal upset. The dose is then gradually increased over several days or weeks up to a daily maximum usually not exceeding 10 mgs. The dosage is adjusted to achieve a normal prolactin level.

Cabergoline (Dostinex), an oral long-acting dopamine agonist, has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration for hyperprolactinemia. It has the advantages of only being taken twice per week and generally has fewer side effects than bromocriptine. It has also been shown to be effective in patients whose prolactinomas are resistant to bromocriptine therapy. The usual starting dose is 0.5 mg twice per week. The dose may be increased up to 1.0 mg twice per week.

Surgery

Women with microadenomas - Transsphenoidal surgery can be considered as first line therapy in women with relatively small tumors (micro-prolactinomas) that do not invade the cavernous sinus and whose prolactin level is 200 ng/ml or less. In these patients, the long term cure rate is generally as high as 80-90%.

Macroadenomas (men or women)- For larger tumors, the surgical cure rate is generally considerably less. In men with large invasive prolactinomas, it is particularly low, averaging less than 30%. For this reason, dopamine agonist therapy is usually tried first. In patients who present with loss of vision, dopamine agonist therapy is also usually indicated first unless the visual loss has occurred relatively suddenly over a period of one to two weeks or less. For the minority of patients that do not respond well to cabergoline or bromocriptine, surgery should generally be performed within 6 months of starting dopamine agonist therapy. After more than six months of such therapy the tumor may become more fibrotic and more difficult to remove.

Pituitary Apoplexy associated with prolactinoma- Patients with macro-prolactinomas may have acute hemorrhage into the tumor (pituitary apoplexy) causing relatively sudden onset of headache, visual loss, double vision, and/or pituitary failure. Urgent transsphenoidal surgery is generally required for such patients.

Radio-therapy

Because most patients with prolactinomas respond well to dopamine agonist therapy, radiation is indicated in only an occasional patient. Stereotactic radiation is generally preferred over external beam radiation therapy because a higher dose of radiation can be delivered to the tumor with less radiation being given to normal brain structures.
 
I hear a lot of guys talking about how 19nor steroids don't raise prolactin and then I hear even more talking about how it does. William Llewellyn's book ANABOLICS says they do elevate prolactin so there is literature saying it does happen. I would like to see some more definitive proof that it doesn't.

Your asking me to prove a NOT, try proving IT DOES, as I have done! There is NO EVIDENCE 19nor AAS raise Prolactin levels to within a symptomatic range, ZIPPO!
(Heck I place the qualifier there even though I have never been able to locate evidence 19Nors raise Porlactin level at all)

I've asked many mates. some of whom are/were my patients, to obtain Pro levels and NOT ONCE was even a remote 19-nor-Prolactin connection possible.
 
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Okay so what I'm getting is that it does in fact have potential to elevate prolactin but the myth is prolactin induced gyno. That's easier to believe. Thanks for the info @brutus79
 
Your asking me to prove a NOT, try proving IT DOES, as I have done! There is NO EVIDENCE 19nor AAS raise Prolactin levels to within a symptomatic range, ZIPPO!
Technically I wasn't asking you anything Jim. Just a broad statement for anyone to chime in on if they pleased. Wasn't directed at you.
 
Okay so what I'm getting is that it does in fact have potential to elevate prolactin but the myth is prolactin induced gyno. That's easier to believe. Thanks for the info @brutus79

Who said anything about the a potential? Bc if there is a potential I'd like for someone to explain the physiologic mechanism responsible.
 
Who said anything about the a potential? Bc if there is a potential I'd like for someone to explain the physiologic mechanism responsible.
I don't have the information you're asking for. Just trying to get a better understanding here.
 
Here maybe this may help! The 19-Nor AAS Nandrolone, manufactured as DECA-DURABOLIN, has been marketed as such for close to FOURTY YEARS, but there is NOT even ONE CASE report that Anabolic agent increases serum prolactin levels.

So after some 40 years of study NOT ONE report of an elevated prolactin level? If a drug of that nature still has the potential to raise prolactin levels then ALL DRUGS do!
 
I don't have the information you're asking for. Just trying to get a better understanding here.

Neither does ANYONE else, or as I've already mentioned it WOULD HAVE BEEN published!

I know how difficult it is to wade thru the dogma "bro science" created bc once people like LEWELLEN publish data of this nature, absent supportive evidence, it becomes bro lore and no one can exorcise the beast!
 
What is your estrogen. That is what matters. High prolactin alone is not an issue. It would have to be in the hundreds to be a real issue alone.
My e2 levels are at 13pg which some consider low yet I'm still lactating. I would also like to add that my prolactin levels are in range.
 
All the prolactin hype could just be coincidental. Would elevated E2 be a cause for men to lactate?

It's not coincidental at all but rather based on rather classic misunderstanding, and misrepresentation of hormonal physiology as it applies to males, pregnant females, patients with elevated prolactin levels, those patients with prolactinomas and finally a reasonable understanding of sex hormone receptor physiology.

And leave it to bro science to confuse and confabulate it all, lol!
 
Are you taking any other medications?

Why did you have a prolactin level performed.

No, not on any other medications.

I checked prolactin off, on my blood tests for my own curiosity. Dr. had no knowledge of me doing so.
 
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