TrenboloneTax: Hybrid Cycling / Lifting Log aka Make Hulk Bike Fast

[Trenbolonetax]

that tsh is screaming hyperthyroidism. you should really do something about it. everyone talks about e2 but keeps crashing their tsh which is even more dangerous for the heart.

This was my natty E2 on enclomiphene

Can you explain why TSH is important if my direct thyroid hormone blood work is in range?

I’ve never understood thyroid well. I know everywhere online says it’s overly suppressed and running hyperthyroid but that doesn’t seem to be reflected in the other thyroid values

 

[Excel.exe]

Isn’t this similar to LH and FSH being suppressed by exogenous T?

quite sure it isn't. any sane doctor would often give their hypothyroid patient dosages and monitor it until it reaches the lower end of the reference range at the same time ensuring it does not drop below 1.

thyroid hormones from what i understand work together with your thyroid hormones instead of suppressing them entirely.

so if your tsh was 20 and you 100mcg of t4 it would drop to 10 but for another person with similar tsh of 5 that 100mcg will turn their tsh into 0.01.

t4 should never be taken based on the dosage assigned to your body weight unless you had thyroid cancer and you got your glands removed.

edit : i added the glands part to make it clear.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

thyroid hormones from what i understand work together with your thyroid hormones instead of suppressing them entirely.

Ah gotcha. That makes sense. So I could theoretically get the same levels of T4 and T3 with less exogenous T4.

t4 should never be taken based on the dosage assigned to your body weight unless you had thyroid cancer.

Basically unless you don’t have thyroid function, you need to account for any residual thyroid function you have left,

I’ll run this dose till I get blood work this week and then change stuff based on others input and some more research on my part

 

[Excel.exe]

So I could theoretically get the same levels of T4 and T3 with less exogenous T4.

theoretically, yes. but you are taking hgh which is known to inhibit t4 to t3 conversation.

Basically unless you don’t have thyroid function, you need to account for any residual thyroid function you have left,

i think so but i could be wrong.

I’ll run this dose till I get blood work this week and then change stuff based on others input and some more research on my part

i will just tag @Ghoul and @readalot and hopefully they do all the work. would not want to disturb @Type-IIx with something silly as this.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

theoretically, yes. but you are taking hgh which is known to inhibit t4 to t3 conversation.

Think you’re wrong on this. HGH is known to up regulate conversion of T4 to T3 as far as I understand.

Growth hormone administration stimulates energy expenditure and extrathyroidal conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine in a dose-dependent manner and suppresses circadian thyrotrophin levels: studies in GH-deficient adults - PubMed

GH administration stimulated peripheral T4 to T3 conversion in a dose-dependent manner. Serum T3 levels were subnormal despite T4 substitution when the patients were off GH but normalized with GH therapy. Energy expenditure increased with GH and correlated with free T3 levels. GH caused a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

i will just tag @Ghoul and @readalot and hopefully they do all the work. would not want to disturb @Type-IIx with something silly as this.

Yes! Calling in the big guns.

 

[Sampei]

theoretically, yes. but you are taking hgh which is known to inhibit t4 to t3 conversation.


i think so but i could be wrong.


i will just tag @Ghoul and @readalot and hopefully they do all the work. would not want to disturb @Type-IIx with something silly as this.

Bro i believe you are highly inaccurate. HGH doesn't inhibit T4 T3 conversion! It's the contrary it enhance T4 to T3 conversion and that's why ppl find themselves sometime with low T4 on HGH use. Especially the first month or two.

He has subclinical hyperthyroidism when you have your TSH that low. Doctor prefer to keep it at least at 0.4.

When it's below 0.1 it's considered severe.

Does it needs to be treated? Depends. If you don't have any symptoms of hypertiroidism and your T3/T4 are in range no there is no need.

It's still better to keep the TSH at 0.4 and so to reduce slightly the T4 medication.

What you have said until now is kinda wrong and fear mongering

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Bro i believe you are highly inaccurate. HGH doesn't inhibit T4 T3 conversion! It's the contrary it enhance T4 to T3 conversion and that's why ppl find themselves sometime with low T4 on HGH use. Especially the first month or two.

He has subclinical hyperthyroidism when you have your TSH that low. Doctor prefer to keep it at least at 0.4.

When it's below 0.1 it's considered severe.

Does it needs to be treated? Depends. If you don't have any symptoms of hypertiroidism and your T3/T4 are in range no there is no need.

It's still better to keep the TSH at 0.4 and so to reduce slightly the T4 medication.

What you have said until now is kinda wrong and fear mongering

I have zero hyperthyroid symptoms as far as I know and have felt completely fine on this does of T4. I tried experimenting with T4 + T3 and the T3 makes me feel like ass + gives immediate signs of hyperthyroid symptoms.

My heat tolerance is phenomenal (sauna @ 200 degree f for 25min no problem), no excessive sweating, no anxiety, no tremors, etc.

I don't understand TSH well. Why does it matter if my fT4 and fT3 are fine? If I was actually hyperthyroid wouldn't those numbers be out of whack?

I don't care if I crashed my natty thyroid function and am relying on the T4 to do the work but if I could get same fT4 and fT3 numbers on 100mcg T4 while also being healthier, cool. That works for me.

 

[Sampei]

I have zero hyperthyroid symptoms as far as I know and have felt completely fine on this does of T4. I tried experimenting with T4 + T3 and the T3 makes me feel like ass + gives immediate signs of hyperthyroid symptoms.

My heat tolerance is phenomenal (sauna @ 200 degree f for 25min no problem), no excessive sweating, no anxiety, no tremors, etc.

I don't understand TSH well. Why does it matter if my fT4 and fT3 are fine? If I was actually hyperthyroid wouldn't those numbers be out of whack?

I don't care if I crashed my natty thyroid function and am relying on the T4 to do the work but if I could get same fT4 and fT3 numbers on 100mcg T4 while also being healthier, cool. That works for me.

It matters only if you have hypertiroidism symptoms or your T4/T3 gets our of whack. As things can change with times medical practitioner prefer to keep the TSH at 0.4 during levothyroxine supplementation.

You can easily decrease your T4 and retest to find a better balance

try 150mcg first
The cool thing with thyroid and HGH is that you can supplement enough T4 to fuel the better conversion but still maintain a barely working thyroid and so a healthier TSH.

It's not a big deal anyway as thyroid is super resistant, as soon as you stop it everything will go back to normal but yeah keeping the TSH at least around 0.4 and above 0.1 is suggested.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

It matters only if you have hypertiroidism symptoms or your T4/T3 gets our of whack. As things can change with times medical practitioner prefer to keep the TSH at 0.4 during levothyroxine supplementation.

You can easily decrease your T4 and retest to find a better balance

try 150mcg first
The cool thing with thyroid and HGH is that you can supplement enough T4 to fuel the better conversion but still maintain a barely working thyroid and so a healthier TSH.

It's not a big deal anyway as thyroid is super resistant, as soon as you stop it everything will go back to normal but yeah keeping the TSH at least around 0.4 and above 0.1 is suggested.

I'll try 150mcg from now moving forward unless my labs this week show something different. I like the idea of using just enough T4 to provide substrate for the increased T4 to T3 conversion as a result of GH, but maintain some thyroid function.

Not trying to run "hyperthyroid" too much, just looking to optimize for GH.

Appreciate the perspective from both you and Excel.

Always a good sanity check from those that are most risk averse to those that are a bit less risk averse (just based off cautionary comments, AAS + GH dosing, etc)

 

[Excel.exe]

HGH doesn't inhibit T4 T3 conversion! It's the contrary it enhance T4 to T3 conversion and that's why ppl find themselves sometime with low T4 on HGH use.

@Trenbolonetax corrected me on this.

Doctor prefer to keep it at least at 0.4.

this is why i said "sane doctor". keeping it that low is considered as hyperthyroid. it puts unnecessary stress on the heart. keeping it below 1 is same as keeping your igf-1 high. it has its benefits but has disadvantages too.

edit : do not confuse reference range with that of what is considered as optimal. that reference range is based on the lab.

Does it needs to be treated? Depends. If you don't have any symptoms of hypertiroidism and your T3/T4 are in range no there is no need.

if you have a fracture and you take strong opioid you won't feel much pain. that means there is no need for it to be treated. correct?

It's still better to keep the TSH at 0.4 and so to reduce slightly the T4 medication.

no, it is not.

What you have said until now is kinda wrong and fear mongering

and what you are telling him is to basically continue messing with his thyroid which will mess with his health in few years if he continues.

1.0 is an antibattery number. it will go up or down for different people but nobody needs it to below 1.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

I wholeheartedly encourage respectful debate / discourse of any differing viewpoints / opinions in my log.

I'm not saying this because anyone has been uncivil, just want to make it clear.

This is the type of stuff I love. Legitimate good faith discussion.

Have at it gentlemen @Sampei @Excel.exe

 

[Excel.exe]

both of us are respectful towards each other and my opinion being opposite of @Sampei does not mean i hate him or he hates me.

 

[Sampei]

@Trenbolonetax corrected me on this.


this is why i said "sane doctor". keeping it that low is considered as hyperthyroid. it puts unnecessary stress on the heart. keeping it below 1 is same as keeping your igf-1 high. it has its benefits but has disadvantages too.

edit : do not confuse reference range with that of what is considered as optimal. that reference range is based on the lab.


if you have a fracture and you take strong opioid you won't feel much pain. that means there is no need for it to be treated. correct?


no, it is not.


and what you are telling him is to basically continue messing with his thyroid which will mess with his health in few years if he continues.

1.0 is an antibattery number. it will go up or down for different people but nobody needs it to below 1.

Can you show proof that a TSH below 1 put strain on the heart if his T3 and T4 are in range and he has no hyperthyroid symptoms?

Because anything I have read online has said the opposite but I'm open to review any paper you have on it.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

both of us are respectful towards each other and my opinion being opposite of @Sampei does not mean i hate him or he hates me.

Agreed. It’s wonderful.

 

[Excel.exe]

Because anything I have read online has said the opposite but I'm open to review any paper you have on it.

i will see if i can find any.

meanwhile, one way @Trenbolonetax can test what i am talking about is by going as lowering his t4 dosage enough that his tsh is more than 1 but less than 2, again this is a antibattery number, and then telling us how is his rhr, how much or less is he sweating at the gym and if he had to lower his dosage for medication he is using to lower his rhr, if he is running out of breath or he feels stronger.

oh and don't forget to opt for organ imaging next time with bone density test. it will be helpful for sure.

it will take minimum of 6-8 weeks for him to see any reasonable changes to his tsh.

 

[Excel.exe]

@Sampei i dont know how to read these papers but is this what you are looking for https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/108/2/472/6795451 ?

 

[Trenbolonetax]

i will see if i can find any.

meanwhile, one way @Trenbolonetax can test what i am talking about is by going as lowering his t4 dosage enough that his tsh is more than 1 but less than 2, again this is a antibattery number, and then telling us how is his rhr, how much or less is he sweating at the gym and if he had to lower his dosage for medication he is using to lower his rhr, if he is running out of breath or he feels stronger.

I’m going to drop to 150mcg. No medication to lower my RHR is being used.

Currently, I don’t sweat that crazy at the gym.

oh and don't forget to opt for organ imaging next time with bone density test. it will be helpful for sure.

Yea soon as I’m back on employer sponsored insurance

it will take minimum of 6-8 weeks for him to see any reasonable changes to his tsh.

I’ll probably cut the T4 to 100mcg for a week or two to expedite the process and go to 150mcg after 2 weeks

 

[Excel.exe]

Hypothyroidism is a common disorder associated with high levels of TSH and low levels of thyroid hormone. Hypothyroidism is usually treated with levothyroxine in a dose to normalize TSH levels. However, we know that many people on levothyroxine do not always have normal TSH, with frequent high (undertreatment) and low (overtreatment) TSH levels commonly seen. These results usually lead to a change in the levothyroxine dose.

Thyroid hormone has a direct effect on the heart. High levels of thyroid hormone, as seen in hyperthyroidism, leads to increase heart rate, palpitations and irregular hear rhythms. Low levels of thyroid hormone can lead to a low heart rate. Both conditions can cause heart problems. Studies have shown that both under and over treatment with levothyroxine are also associated with increased heart problems and can lead to an increased risk of death. In most of these studies, thyroid function was evaluated over a short period of time.

Of the 621 participants with an average age of 54.2, 85.7% were female, 63.6% were White, and 63.4% had completed college. Four TSH trajectories were identified. (1) high–high normal TSH (HHN) (55.9%); (2) normal TSH (N) (30.3%); (3) normal to low TSH (NL) (6.8%); and (4) low to normal TSH (LN) (7.1%).

...

One or more cardiovascular health marker increased over time in all the groups, as well as usage of cardiovascular related medication. The biggest changes appeared in the HHN and LN classes.

Vol 17 Issue 11 p.12-13 | American Thyroid Association

We know that many people with hypothyroidism on levothyroxine do not always have normal TSH, with frequent high (undertreatment) and low (overtreatment) TSH levels commonly seen. Studies have shown that both under and over treatment with levothyroxine are also associated with increased heart...

www.thyroid.org

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Pull day. Need to bring straps next time. Hard to grip stuff when the pump starts going.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Pretty sure my right hip issue is labrum related. It checks all of the boxes based on my conversation with chatGPT.

@Benf15harp you dealt with labrum issue...any advice that isn't "go see the doc"?

1. Location of Pain​

• Usually felt deep in the front of the hip or groin area.

3. Specific Symptoms​

• Clicking, locking, or popping sensation in the hip joint.
• Pain worsens with activities such as:
  • Prolonged sitting (especially if hips are flexed)
  • rotating the hip
• Getting in/out of a car

4. Aggravating Positions​

• Pain intensifies when the hip is:
  • Internally rotated (turning the leg inward).
  • Combined motions like hip flexion + rotation often reproduce the pain.