MESO-Rx Exclusive Unique characteristics of MENT

[MESO-Rx Administrator]

MESO-Rx is pleased to announce the publication of part 4 of an eleven-part series by @Type-IIx highlighting the unique features of various anabolic steroid compounds. The fourth installment focuses on MENT (trestolone).

MENT (trestolone) is an anabolic steroid with potent estrogenic and progestagenic effects, causing gynecomastia, fluid retention, and increased blood pressure. It is generally unsuitable for bodybuilding purposes.

MENT Insights: Unique Characteristics of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids – Part 4

Learn about the unique features of MENT, its effects on body, and why MENT is not a commonly used anabolic steroid for bodybuilding purposes.

thinksteroids.com

 

[BigNattyMcGee]

Thanks again @Type-IIx !

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

"In summary, the features that have been discusses – MENT’s and– underpin its potent and its ."

"Hypertensive Effects

also illustrates, partly, how MENT, standing in the place of E₂ (estradiol; E2) and P₄ (progesterone) promotes . "

There seem to be some cut-off or incomplete sentences.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Also, the claim that MENT or its metabolites have any 'antiandrogenic action' does not appear to be substantiated in the article.

Yes, some progestagens (like Cyproterone, 'Androcur') have anti-androgenic effects. But there are also progestagens (like Trenbolone) which have a very strong (pro)androgenic effect.

So based on what evidence does the author conclude that MENT is an 'anti-androgenic progestin'? I do not see any source for this in the article. And anecdotal evidence suggests that MENT is a very potent agonist of the AR.

 

[Intrepid]

Never ran it before

Never had any intention to run it prior to this article, but now I sure as hell won't run it

Know a few people that ran it and had to bail because their blood pressure went through the roof. Think ill just stick to classic test

 

[Methyltst1993]

have been using MENT for the third day. It is already my third course where I have Trestolon Acetate. It is a very strong aromatizing substance. I focus on strength growth not muscle building, and this steroid is perfect for that. It is stronger than trenbolone but has about the same negative effects as tren.

 

[Type-IIx]

"In summary, the features that have been discusses – MENT’s and– underpin its potent and its ."

"Hypertensive Effects

also illustrates, partly, how MENT, standing in the place of E₂ (estradiol; E2) and P₄ (progesterone) promotes . "

There seem to be some cut-off or incomplete sentences.

@Millard please review, I know this one might have required additional editing given its appearance in web vs. editing views.

Also, the claim that MENT or its metabolites have any 'antiandrogenic action' does not appear to be substantiated in the article.

Yes, some progestagens (like Cyproterone, 'Androcur') have anti-androgenic effects. But there are also progestagens (like Trenbolone) which have a very strong (pro)androgenic effect.

So based on what evidence does the author conclude that MENT is an 'anti-androgenic progestin'? I do not see any source for this in the article. And anecdotal evidence suggests that MENT is a very potent agonist of the AR.

First, let's make sure we understand the dstinction between progestins and progestagenic androgens. I will refer you to:

Article on distinguishing progestins, prolactin, and progestagenic androgens (e.g., Tren, MENT, Deca) & SERM vs. AI logic [by Type-IIx]

Introduction Prolactin: Protein (peptide hormone; 227 AA, ~26 kDa) encoded by the PRL gene that primarily acts on the mammary gland to promote lactation Progesterone: Female sex steroid hormone (C21-steroid, 20-oxo steroid, 3-oxo-Delta(4)) that primarily acts to maintain pregnancy & decrease...

thinksteroids.com

---

The distinction between trenbolone's gestagenicity vs. MENT's is that trenbolone's arises out of its triene (Δ4,9,11) structure vis-à-vis broad homology among the ligand-binding domains of the classical nuclear steroid receptors that share a common relatively low sequence identity.

In the case of trenbolone, its Δ4,9,11 double bonds result in a flattening of the steroid molecule which leads to conformation that is less hindered for AR binding. Since C-7 is sufficiently distal from C-3 and C-17, these double bonds see minimal steric or stereoelectronic interfere with the important interactions between the AR and the carbonyl- and hydroxyl- groups of the steroid. The combination of a 17α-side chain and conjugated Δ4,9,11-double bonds in the case of trenbolone, in the presence of hydrophobic substituents, leads to a steroid that is able to bind firmly not only to the AR and PR, but also to the MR and GR.

Conversely, in the case of MENT, its substitution of a methyl group in the 7α- position, while too serving to flatten the steroid molecule – perhaps facilely appearing as analogous to trenbolone – is distinguished from trenbolone by its:

(a) binding with considerably less potency to AR, reducing antiestrogenic and androgenic potency, and

(b) aromatizing to the most potent known estrogen as well (whereas trenbolone does not aromatize).

Since progestins increase estrogen sensitivity and combine synergistically with estrogens to cause hypertension, edema, gynecomastia, and other estrogenic & gestagenic maladies, MENT stands quite apart from trenbolone in its reduced efficacy versus trenbolone, given trenbolone's myriad practically applicable unique effects.

In summary, whereas trenbolone is a most potent nonaromatizable androgen, a member of the Δ4,9,11 steroids (trienes; e.g., trenbolone & metribolone & THG, "The Clear"), a class that possesses notable structural flexibility due to conformational mobility coupled with remarkable AR transactivation potency, MENT is by contrast a mild anabolic – (to wit, unmethylated Cheque drops which is itself used as a pure androgen without hardly a scintilla of significant anabolic effects in man). MENT combines its unremarkable anabolism with the most potent known estrogen, 17α-methylestradiol, synergistic in its harms, along with MENT's > 120% potency at the PR (progesterone receptor) versus trenbolone's.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks again @Type-IIx !

Very welcome.

have been using MENT for the third day. It is already my third course where I have Trestolon Acetate. It is a very strong aromatizing substance. I focus on strength growth not muscle building, and this steroid is perfect for that. It is stronger than trenbolone but has about the same negative effects as tren.

Stronger in what sense? Non- muscle building? I agree, it builds breast tissue extraordinarily well indeed.

 

[Methyltst1993]

Very welcome.

Stronger in what sense? Non- muscle building? I agree, it builds breast tissue extraordinarily well indeed.

In terms of increased strength and sex libido. It is a strong androgen, but whether it is stronger in the sense of anabolism, I do not dare to say that.If I compare it with Trenbolone. But that's just my impression and feeling.

 

[Zeus45]

MENT is a fantastic mass builder and plenty of bodybuilders have caught on to its remarkable potency.

 

[Type-IIx]

In terms of increased strength and sex libido. It is a strong androgen, but whether it is stronger in the sense of anabolism, I do not dare to say that.If I compare it with Trenbolone. But that's just my impression and feeling.

It's interesting you say that it particularly enhances libido since:

2 of 13 (15%) MENT subjects withdrew after 8 weeks of treatment due to low libido & erectile dysfunction...Adverse events included reduced libido & erectile function in 4 additional subjects in the MENT group who completed treatment (6/13, or 46%) [these adverse effects were not reported by any subject in the testosterone group]...Due to the incidence of reports of low libido and early withdrawal in the MENT group, it was decided in consultation with the study Data Monitoring and Safety Committee to shorten the MENT treatment period to 24 weeks whereas men in the testosterone group completed 48 weeks of treatment. Walton, M. J., Kumar, N., Baird, D. T., Ludlow, H., & Anderson, R. A. (2007). 7 -Methyl-19-Nortestosterone (MENT) vs Testosterone in Combination With Etonogestrel Implants for Spermatogenic Suppression in Healthy Men. Journal of Andrology, 28(5), 679–688. doi:10.2164/jandrol.107.002683

MENT is a fantastic mass builder and plenty of bodybuilders have caught on to its remarkable potency.

Yeah, yeah. You love MENT, I know. Vague appeals to popularity (argumentum ad populum) aside, do you have anything concrete to dispute my proof by contradiction that it's a shitty one and more bodybuilders have stopped using it than have continued after trying it.

I don't believe that it enhances strength particularly well, and it's obviously not androgenic enough to maintain sexual function.

 

[Soosh]

It would be great to hear more people's personal experience with this as studies don't always apply to bodybuilders or people who live a bodybuildling lifestyle. Not to discredit them but real life experience is valuable.

Also it sounds like most of the side effects from this drug are related to high estrogen. What would happen with if lower doses were taken with appropriate estrogen management? Could it be efficient at building muscle?

 

[Methyltst1993]

It's interesting you say that it particularly enhances libido since:

2 of 13 (15%) MENT subjects withdrew after 8 weeks of treatment due to low libido & erectile dysfunction...Adverse events included reduced libido & erectile function in 4 additional subjects in the MENT group who completed treatment (6/13, or 46%) [these adverse effects were not reported by any subject in the testosterone group]...Due to the incidence of reports of low libido and early withdrawal in the MENT group, it was decided in consultation with the study Data Monitoring and Safety Committee to shorten the MENT treatment period to 24 weeks whereas men in the testosterone group completed 48 weeks of treatment. Walton, M. J., Kumar, N., Baird, D. T., Ludlow, H., & Anderson, R. A. (2007). 7 -Methyl-19-Nortestosterone (MENT) vs Testosterone in Combination With Etonogestrel Implants for Spermatogenic Suppression in Healthy Men. Journal of Andrology, 28(5), 679–688. doi:10.2164/jandrol.107.002683


Yeah, yeah. You love MENT, I know. Vague appeals to popularity (argumentum ad populum) aside, do you have anything concrete to dispute my proof by contradiction that it's a shitty one and more bodybuilders have stopped using it than have continued after trying it.

I don't believe that it enhances strength particularly well, and it's obviously not androgenic enough to maintain sexual function.

It works similarly to Tren Acetate. In the first 4-5 weeks, the libido is very strong, but then it drops sharply. The second thing is that the volume of the semen will also decrease. That's why I don't go longer than 8 weeks when using Ment/Tren. As far as volume is concerned, Ment builds more muscle than Tren. It also causes water retention in the body and increases blood pressure more than Tren.

 

[Type-IIx]

It would be great to hear more people's personal experience with this as studies don't always apply to bodybuilders or people who live a bodybuildling lifestyle. Not to discredit them but real life experience is valuable.

Also it sounds like most of the side effects from this drug are related to high estrogen. What would happen with if lower doses were taken with appropriate estrogen management? Could it be efficient at building muscle?

I can’t share since it’s so obviously terrible I refuse to use it. Tren doesn’t decrease my libido, it increases it dramatically without any decrement.

Clearly, the evidence shows that no dose is effective for bodybuilding.

The doses used in the references that everyone is not only free to, but encouraged to, check are low dose — 2 mg weekly.

So which is it, we need higher doses? Lower doses? How bout reframing the question to: what does MENT offer as a unique benefit?

The answer is nada. I looked. You’re free to as well.

 

[Type-IIx]

Anyway I do think it’s healthy to have differing opinions about this!

Some guys are just clearly willing to use it despite its terrible tolerability and efficacy.

In my opinion, that’s unwise!

 

[Dyorotic2]

MENT was truly an experience when I used it, and I mean that in the worst way imaginable. At 25mg daily, within about a week my RHR was averaging beyond the 100s. Sleep quality/duration/onset/latency was destroyed. Moderate to low doses of quetiapine normally wipes out any residual insomnia from gear but it seems the histaminergic/adrenergic effects of MENT overpowered it, which led me to pick up a pregabalin habit to bring my sleep back to a respectable level. Normally, when I did end up sleeping, I'd wake up with the oilest skin of my life. It was borderline comical, waddling out of bed practically dripping in sebum. Acne obviously went through the roof. Heartburn was uncontrollable, would be scoffing bicarb soda and popping famotidine like my life depended on it. Usually l-glutamine works wonders but did nada for the gerd it was causing.

BP wasn't bad but that's because I'm not prone to blood pressure issues regardless of the steroid. I don't get gyno and I've never used an AI ever so estrogenic sides that don't pertain to water retention/acne/libido don't pop up for me ever. Speaking of libido, it was unquenchable. I've probably forgotten half the torture this poison induced.

Seems to be disgustingly androgenic in my experience. Couldn't sleep, was covered in acne, lost a bunch of hair density etc.

The gains were okay, not worth it IMO. This was about 9 months ago and since then I've come off everything just to recouperate. Had to use accutane to get the acne under control.

 

[jj89]

Anyway I do think it’s healthy to have differing opinions about this!

Some guys are just clearly willing to use it despite its terrible tolerability and efficacy.

In my opinion, that’s unwise!

The fact that trest has sides isn't exactly a secret, whether they're worth it or not is up to the person using it. But this article doesn't prove its efficacy or supposed lack there of.

 

[Millard]

"In summary, the features that have been discusses – MENT’s and– underpin its potent and its ."

"Hypertensive Effects

also illustrates, partly, how MENT, standing in the place of E₂ (estradiol; E2) and P₄ (progesterone) promotes . "

There seem to be some cut-off or incomplete sentences.

@Millard please review, I know this one might have required additional editing given its appearance in web vs. editing views.

Thanks, guys! It's been corrected.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

@Millard please review, I know this one might have required additional editing given its appearance in web vs. editing views.


First, let's make sure we understand the dstinction between progestins and progestagenic androgens. I will refer you to:

Article on distinguishing progestins, prolactin, and progestagenic androgens (e.g., Tren, MENT, Deca) & SERM vs. AI logic [by Type-IIx]

Introduction Prolactin: Protein (peptide hormone; 227 AA, ~26 kDa) encoded by the PRL gene that primarily acts on the mammary gland to promote lactation Progesterone: Female sex steroid hormone (C21-steroid, 20-oxo steroid, 3-oxo-Delta(4)) that primarily acts to maintain pregnancy & decrease...

thinksteroids.com

---

The distinction between trenbolone's gestagenicity vs. MENT's is that trenbolone's arises out of its triene (Δ4,9,11) structure vis-à-vis broad homology among the ligand-binding domains of the classical nuclear steroid receptors that share a common relatively low sequence identity.

In the case of trenbolone, its Δ4,9,11 double bonds result in a flattening of the steroid molecule which leads to conformation that is less hindered for AR binding. Since C-7 is sufficiently distal from C-3 and C-17, these double bonds see minimal steric or stereoelectronic interfere with the important interactions between the AR and the carbonyl- and hydroxyl- groups of the steroid. The combination of a 17α-side chain and conjugated Δ4,9,11-double bonds in the case of trenbolone, in the presence of hydrophobic substituents, leads to a steroid that is able to bind firmly not only to the AR and PR, but also to the MR and GR.

Conversely, in the case of MENT, its substitution of a methyl group in the 7α- position, while too serving to flatten the steroid molecule – perhaps facilely appearing as analogous to trenbolone – is distinguished from trenbolone by its:

(a) binding with considerably less potency to AR, reducing antiestrogenic and androgenic potency, and

(b) aromatizing to the most potent known estrogen as well (whereas trenbolone does not aromatize).

Since progestins increase estrogen sensitivity and combine synergistically with estrogens to cause hypertension, edema, gynecomastia, and other estrogenic & gestagenic maladies, MENT stands quite apart from trenbolone in its reduced efficacy versus trenbolone, given trenbolone's myriad practically applicable unique effects.

In summary, whereas trenbolone is a most potent nonaromatizable androgen, a member of the Δ4,9,11 steroids (trienes; e.g., trenbolone & metribolone & THG, "The Clear"), a class that possesses notable structural flexibility due to conformational mobility coupled with remarkable AR transactivation potency, MENT is by contrast a mild anabolic – (to wit, unmethylated Cheque drops which is itself used as a pure androgen without hardly a scintilla of significant anabolic effects in man). MENT combines its unremarkable anabolism with the most potent known estrogen, 17α-methylestradiol, synergistic in its harms, along with MENT's > 120% potency at the PR (progesterone receptor) versus trenbolone's.

Unfortunately, your reply does not do anything to support the claim in your article that MENT is an 'anti-androgenic progestin'. Instead, you provide a lengthy comparison of Trenbolone and MENT.

I did not claim that MENT is exactly like, or as useful as, Trenbolone. I merely mentioned Trenbolone as an example of a progestagen (=progestin) that does not have antiandrogenic effects. Since in your article, you seem to argue that MENT must be anti-androgenic since it is a progestin.

A progestin is defined as "natural or synthetic steroid hormone that binds to and activate the progesterone receptors". By this standard definition, both Trenbolone and MENT are progestins.

MENT is both a progestin and a very strong androgen. In fact, MENT has high binding affinity to the AR, and is an extremely potent activator of it, even stronger than DHT. It is as pro-androgenic as steroids get!

"All the androgens led to a dose-dependent increase in the CAT activity. MENT was found to be the most potent followed by DHT, 19-NT, T, and CNNT. " 7alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone, a synthetic androgen with high potency: structure-activity comparisons with other androgens - PubMed

I agree with you that MENT is not too useful as a drug due to its estrogenic and prolactinergic potential. But the claim about anti-androgenicity is simply unfounded and not needed to make a strong argument against the use of MENT.

 

[Type-IIx]

Unfortunately, your reply does not do anything to support the claim in your article that MENT is an 'anti-androgenic progestin'. Instead, you provide a lengthy comparison of Trenbolone and MENT.

I did not claim that MENT is exactly like, or as useful as, Trenbolone. I merely mentioned Trenbolone as an example of a progestagen (=progestin) that does not have antiandrogenic effects. Since in your article, you seem to argue that MENT must be anti-androgenic since it is a progestin.

A progestin is defined as "natural or synthetic steroid hormone that binds to and activate the progesterone receptors". By this standard definition, both Trenbolone and MENT are progestins.

MENT is both a progestin and a very strong androgen. In fact, MENT has high binding affinity to the AR, and is an extremely potent activator of it, even stronger than DHT. It is as pro-androgenic as steroids get!

"All the androgens led to a dose-dependent increase in the CAT activity. MENT was found to be the most potent followed by DHT, 19-NT, T, and CNNT. " 7alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone, a synthetic androgen with high potency: structure-activity comparisons with other androgens - PubMed

I agree with you that MENT is not too useful as a drug due to its estrogenic and prolactinergic potential. But the claim about anti-androgenicity is simply unfounded and not needed to make a strong argument against the use of MENT.

That’s fine. The subsequent article about testosterone should serve to clarify the answer to your question that depends on understanding 5a-amplification in CNS and gonadal tissues and why MENT does not and testosterone does act androgenically to support sexual function. I will make sure to include the actual definition of androgenicity since apparently it is totally misunderstood.