Western-BioTech - Pharma quality GH

[Millard]

As many of you know, I've given a lot of thought on how to create the most credible lab testing program. Reading this thread raises another issue.

Consider this hypothetical:

If the program analyzes several products from a questionable UGL and the results reveal severely underdosed product or no androgen present, then the results confirm expectations. All is good. Everyone considers the program a success.

But what if all the tests pass with flying colors. What if what was on the label was exactly what was in the bottle? This is the other side of the coin of the lab testing issue.

How does the community react?

(a) It accepts the results and agrees that the UGL is producing good product.

(b) It accepts the results but attacks the program for conducting the tests in the first place because it may benefit the UGL.

(c) It questions the results and the credibility of the program.

Clearly, it will be easier for the program to succeed if all testing confirms expectations about questionable UGLs (the products suck) and confirms expectations about popular UGLs (the products are good).

But unfortunately, it is not always going to turn out that way. Information is information. The question is how will the community deal with it?

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

As many of you know, I've given a lot of thought on how to create the most credible lab testing program. Reading this thread raises another issue.

Consider this hypothetical:

If the program analyzes several products from a questionable UGL and the results reveal severely underdosed product or no androgen present, then the results confirm expectations. All is good. Everyone considers the program a success.

But what if all the tests pass with flying colors. What if what was on the label was exactly what was in the bottle? This is the other side of the coin of the lab testing issue.

How does the community react?

(a) It accepts the results and agrees that the UGL is producing good product.

(b) It accepts the results but attacks the program for conducting the tests in the first place because it may benefit the UGL.

(c) It questions the results and the credibility of the program.

Clearly, it will be easier for the program to succeed if all testing confirms expectations about questionable UGLs (the products suck) and confirms expectations about popular UGLs (the products are good).

But unfortunately, it is not always going to turn out that way. Information is information. The question is how will the community deal with it?

I kinda get what you're saying here.. The main point of all this IMO would be to expose bunk sources and protect members NOT to promote labs with good test results..

If a UGL with a questionable track record gets tested and the results come back very good then it's great to know they CAN produce good gear.. A few positive test results however will not erase that UGL's history, they should not be deemed "g2g"..

There will also be problems exposing labs that are well known and have a great track record..

A lot of heavily censored boards hate Meso and what we stand for anyway, fuck em.. This is really going to ruffle some feathers.

 

[BigHuu]

Hard to tell how people will react, surely in many colors, but I think better to start the test and after to go step by step fix things.
Surely no one can make everyone happy, especially the UGL.
Anyway I am inclined to believe that community says that any UGL

 

[Nitrobuste]

Never used sciroxx gears. What do you guys think of his gear like test and tren ? Are there any ms or labmax tests ?

 

[Millard]

Anyway I am inclined to believe that community says that any UGL

I agree completely. However, in my hypothetical example it may very well be the community (and not the UGLs) who would be upset by the results. The program could very well come under attack from both source ecosystem AND the community.

 

[Millard]

I kinda get what you're saying here.. The main point of all this IMO would be to expose bunk sources and protect members NOT to promote labs with good test results..

If a UGL with a questionable track record gets tested and the results come back very good then it's great to know they CAN produce good gear.. A few positive test results however will not erase that UGL's history, they should not be deemed "g2g"..

There will also be problems exposing labs that are well known and have a great track record..

A lot of heavily censored boards hate Meso and what we stand for anyway, fuck em.. This is really going to ruffle some feathers.

The goal of a harm reduction initiative would be to protect consumers. But will good test results be used (and misused) for other purposes? Most likely.

Perhaps, a disclaimer along the lines of what you said should always be prominently displayed. IT might help. Test results are not an endorsement. Current test results don't negate historical results. And current performance is not a predictor of future performance...

 

[BigHuu]

I agree completely. However, in my hypothetical example it may very well be the community (and not the UGLs) who would be upset by the results. The program could very well come under attack from both source ecosystem AND the community.

Theoretically, yes, you're right but I think the 3D "Labmax test results" and "
Mass Spec Thread" shows us how the community reacts and is interested to test the final product.

 

[whodatnation]

This is why it would be of the utmost importance for the community to not get complacent and let one or two test be the basis of your complete submission of loyalty to the results of any testing results . Just as a bad test result from a UGL can also be turned around with multiple positive results also can good test results be recanted with the communities steady involvement in providing gear to testing.

No doubt many obstacles are ahead of us but anything has to be better then the current state of affairs.

 

[pumpingiron22]

I think we should just take it easy on mands he us taking one for the team and I appreciate it. He has Spent money to get test he did not have to do that. I have been in that position when I was the first to log astro. I got called alot of things and a ass beating from big ben. Because of this experience I never logged again check my history and you will see thats true. Why did I do it my intention was to share with meso and my results and experience. Lets not do this to members. Let's enjoy each person journey and results. And let the test and ms do the rest. Just speaking my mind. I am not vouching for any one or thing. We Should just learn to be cordial and enjoy people's journey.

 

[Western-Biotech]

There are certain tools to conduct relaible testing.

I don't think anyone here has tried to make random mess specs to AAS, and this is basically the way to go, from what I've seen you rely on questionable methods like lab max which maybe barely may identify the material, and I more then suspect that any testing wasn't done under real random conditions.

This is certainly not my concern here as u may guess.

Regarding the Somastim - as I encouraged you from first day - simply make random serum tests which is cheap, available and easy to get the valid indication to the quantity. From time to time you may make mess specs to confirm the purity I declare on our testing, it'll always match 98+% purity (higher then pharma standard).

So if you're intersted in pharma grade GH for fraction the cost you have here the method to follow and the tools to confirm the quality you consume.

You'll always have my cooepration with any regard, I saved no efforts to explain and specify behind the scenes further more to anyone who asked for any info... ask around.

I know I repeat myself, but if your goal is pharma grade GH you have the direct source to talk to, and the way to test his credability, no need to go through Chinese dealers who offers bunk shit.... as u all know

 

[flenser]

As many of you know, I've given a lot of thought on how to create the most credible lab testing program. Reading this thread raises another issue.

Consider this hypothetical:

If the program analyzes several products from a questionable UGL and the results reveal severely underdosed product or no androgen present, then the results confirm expectations. All is good. Everyone considers the program a success.

But what if all the tests pass with flying colors. What if what was on the label was exactly what was in the bottle? This is the other side of the coin of the lab testing issue.

How does the community react?

(a) It accepts the results and agrees that the UGL is producing good product.

(b) It accepts the results but attacks the program for conducting the tests in the first place because it may benefit the UGL.

(c) It questions the results and the credibility of the program.

Clearly, it will be easier for the program to succeed if all testing confirms expectations about questionable UGLs (the products suck) and confirms expectations about popular UGLs (the products are good).

But unfortunately, it is not always going to turn out that way. Information is information. The question is how will the community deal with it?

I think the unpopular sources will have more to prove. Good results over time from multiple submissions will be difficult for anyone to argue against.

 

[flenser]

I think we should just take it easy on mands he us taking one for the team and I appreciate it. He has Spent money to get test he did not have to do that. I have been in that position when I was the first to log astro. I got called alot of things and a ass beating from big ben. Because of this experience I never logged again check my history and you will see thats true. Why did I do it my intention was to share with meso and my results and experience. Lets not do this to members. Let's enjoy each person journey and results. And let the test and ms do the rest. Just speaking my mind. I am not vouching for any one or thing. We Should just learn to be cordial and enjoy people's journey.

I went back and looked. You didn't post anything like this when you tested Astro's products.

I think the fact that Karl has been around for many years might exclude him from the COC. I know a few other suppliers have came in here sort of grandfathered in.

Karl knows me and I have invited him here before to clear up some things on re-sellers for his product probably a year or so ago.

He has always been readily available to talk to and seems like he genuinely looks after his customers. I am in NO WAY endorsing his GH product. Only time will tell.

I can bet 99% he has nothing to do with PC and any endeavors that PC is involved in.

I'm sure Karl will give you enough information needed while keeping himself safe.

I Also know if there is any quality issues that arise he will be the first one to admit it and make it right.

Again let me say I am not endorsing this product or this new company. I just don't want to see this thread turn into a cock fight like usual.

mands

You also don't have the same level of influence. Mands is practically a legend here. And (I didn't check this) you probably didn't post less reliable results than what would be available in a few weeks knowing those results would generate sales.

 

[Colt44]

I went back and looked. You didn't post anything like this when you tested Astro's products.



You also don't have the same level of influence. Mands is practically a legend here. And (I didn't check this) you probably didn't post less reliable results than what would be available in a few weeks knowing those results would generate sales.

Agreed. I think your off base with that assessment PI. There's a difference between helping the community out and endorsing a source simply by influence. You also did a log for a not yet proven source. Not one that has been tied to screwing over members.(whether he sent the products directly from his hands or not. His company, his problem)

 

[pumpingiron22]

True and True.

 

[flenser]

I should also mention this isn't the only board WBT is pimping its products on. It just happens to be the one with the largest audience and the most potential sales. The community wouldn't be missing out on a new source of GH by letting WBT prove itself somewhere the owner in not already reviled. The only thing the community is gaining from this thread is more risk from early sales.

 

[mands]

I seriously asked you guys this... So as a long time VET in this community should I not try and help out when I think something could benefit the community? It sounds like I'm in a loose loose situation for being a long time member. You are saying I'm endorsing him by my influence? I can honesty say Karl never came to me when he posted here or asked for my help. I contacted him about his gh and questioned him and made a decision to try him out.

mands

 

[flenser]

I seriously asked you guys this... So as a long time VET in this community should I not try and help out when I think something could benefit the community? It sounds like I'm in a loose loose situation for being a long time member. You are saying I'm endorsing him by my influence? I can honesty say Karl never came to me when he posted here or asked for my help. I contacted him about his gh and questioned him and made a decision to try him out.

mands

I think you went about it in the wrong way, and I think you don't realize how just many people here consider Karl a scammer. I hold a huge personal grudge. I'm never going to change my mind about him, and I'm definitely not alone in this respect.

Posting the serum results was pretty much the final insult for me. There is no reason for those to be posted in public. They do not confirm Karl's claims in any way, but they WILL generate sales.

 

[Millard]

I think the unpopular sources will have more to prove. Good results over time from multiple submissions will be difficult for anyone to argue against.

Yes, results from multiple submissions by multiple individuals over time will provide strong evidence.

This is why it would be of the utmost importance for the community to not get complacent and let one or two test be the basis of your complete submission of loyalty to the results of any testing results . Just as a bad test result from a UGL can also be turned around with multiple positive results also can good test results be recanted with the communities steady involvement in providing gear to testing.

The more confirmations, the better.

How much resources should be devoted to confirming test results?

For example, let's say that...

(1) ABC Labs sample analysis = BAD results

(2) XYZ Labs sample analysis = GOOD results

Would you spend more money over the next 6 months testing XYZ Labs to confirm good results or ABC Labs to confirm bad results? What obligation (and how important) would it be for the program to confirm the results in either scenario?

 

[Western-Biotech]

I don't pretend what I'm not.

I logged in to introduce to you a product, have provided you with all the relevant valid info, and keep doing so.

My role is to provide the quality and services I declare on, yours is to keep testing me to meet your standards.

Regarding any issue in the past with Sciroxx -

- I've never sold here directly to any one, but a couple of vets like Mands who've been very happy

- If a SRC sold here indirectly then he should have all the answers for you first and above all. Never ever any SRC came to me with any quality issue regarding any product. It was brought to my attention that some quality issues rose here, I've tried to log in, but the attitude here, as well as the atmosphere would simply make any reasonable man to run away, especially if you have a prejudice against somehow. furthermore - I think that maybe one time a member from here came to me and raised any issue, how I may handle any issue ? When I was doing my inquiries regarding any quality issue it really brought me to relaize the issues were with the specific source.
If anyone has the slightest suspect on my credability and commitment to the quality I declare on you may talk to muscles96 for instance who is a founding member on professionalmuscle. I replaced there products in 100000usd ! 100000usd ! when quality issues happened. I monitored it, admitted, posted, kept all my words, and any customer got full refund with products he came back and confirmed their quality is perfect now.

- Lessons were learned. I'm here in person to deal directly with any issue. I'm personally responsible to the quality I provide from a to z. No middleman, no excuses.

- I take it step by step carefully with you guys. I introduced the product, I explained thoroughly on our testing methods compared to USP standards, the unique quality we offer in this feild, and offered special deals so you may test it randomly ! no freebies, no bribe shit, anyone may order and test, time after time.
Now a reliable member here (Mands) reported back with a valid serum test, what are you complaianing about ? anyone who likes to order and enjoy from pharma grade with fraction the costs may do it, if anyone likes to prove the quality is not as we declare then he is welcome to test and post.
I keep encouraging you to test on a regular basis the product, to confirm any statement. I'm waiting eagerly for mess spec results which will match the authentic tests in house were doing. And this may be done on a regular basis again and again

-

 

[mands]

I think the community has the right to know that's why I posted. And like I said I received a PM from one of the most respected persons on this board that supported what I wanted to do. I paid for my GH and I paid for my test as well. Therefore I will post it. You have your opinion flesner and I have mine.

mands