Western-BioTech - Pharma quality GH

[Western-Biotech]

My first comment to the claims here is that I owe u a thorough explanation from my proferssor, basic google search simply confirmed my claims, so I quoted it,

We may continue with this all day and all night ...... the members here want to know validated facts, and you provide non, while my product has proved itself over more then a dozen serum tests, and a thorough 4 analytical tests by Mands, if you would have care of this community u would have invest a couple of hundreds of bucks and enjoy from pharma grade GH for fraction of its cost in the pharmacy, and would have tested it , this would contribute more but posting here baseless comments

 

[muscle96ss]

Lightspan and Dr. Jim : So if I were to read the cliff notes of whats going on, would this be an accurate summary?

The GH that mands tested is great GH and everything Karl claims it to be. However, you both do not agree with the manner in which Karl is doing his QA or the data he has provided. In other words, if he continues to send out the same GH that mands tested then we are all good but you have doubts that this will continue.

 

[Dr JIM]

Regarding the numbers on the SDS-page - you're of course right and I'm wrong, lucky us Mands found on our GH that we made it somehow perfectly on 22.106,

Your inconsistencies abound K!
Although you posted a GEP that clearly reveals the MW of the homie sample YOU tested was about 19Kd after denying this fact several times you finally relented and admitted "I was correct".

However in that same context you clearly state MANDS. MS analysis confirmed "OUR" GH scored a perfect 22,106 D!

So how long will this BS continue!

Guys stick with PH grade why waste your money, and the ONLY reproducible means of evaluating the quality of of a GH product is to analyze the VIAL CONTENTS, period

JIM

 

[Dr JIM]

Lightspan and Dr. Jim : So if I were to read the cliff notes of whats going on, would this be an accurate summary?

The GH that mands tested is great GH and everything Karl claims it to be. However, you both do not agree with the manner in which Karl is doing his QA or the data he has provided. In other words, if he continues to send out the same GH that mands tested then we are all good but you have doubts that this will continue.

I've seen NOT ONE comment on this thread that I disagree with LS about.

If you believe otherwise PLEASE post it, for my review..

Thx
Jim

 

[Western-Biotech]

So our MW is 19 ... interesting for GH ......

 

[Dr JIM]

Oh K is that what I SAID? NOPE!

My comment was, the sample you tested using GEP had a MW of roughly 19Kd and if your now denying that fact also, PLEASE FETCH your "professor"!

Because the GEP sample you tested and posted was obviously NOT GH, with MW of 19Kd, and you have yet to provide ANY evidence that supports a claim YOU (not MANDS) have analyzed any compound that is CW GH!

 

[muscle96ss]

I've seen NOT ONE comment on this thread that I disagree with LS about.

If you believe otherwise PLEASE post it, for my review..

Thx
Jim

What? Everyone is talking in circles here. The majority of people here, myself included, have no idea what any of these tests mean nor do we know how to read/analyze them. So none of us understand what your complaints are. I posted a cliff notes summary of what I am getting out of this thread. I simply want to know if my understanding is correct or not. And if not, what are you guys trying to say so that we can get the correct message.

 

[Western-Biotech]

Muscles96ss - this is not a survey ..... and the doc, though I have much respect to, is not an analytical chemist

Mands tests confirmed 99.5% purity by an authorized independent university in the USA, the doc may have specific complaint to the tests I posted, he's wrong, I'll give him all the attention to prove him wrong anyhow.

LS confirmed already what I stated above regarding the purity Mands tests confirmed, again not that LS is an authority in this filed either, but at least we may agree with one person in this house already ...

 

[Dr JIM]

What? Everyone is talking in circles here. The majority of people here, myself included, have no idea what any of these tests mean nor do we know how to read/analyze them. So none of us understand what your complaints are. I posted a cliff notes summary of what I am getting out of this thread. I simply want to know if my understanding is correct or not. And if not, what are you guys trying to say so that we can get the correct message.

Ok here it is in a nut shell.

Karl has yet to prove he is selling GH, IMO

WHY bc the tests he has posted are NOT CW GH!

MANDS did perform an analysis on a compound which was most assuredly GH BUT evidence I've reviewed shows this was ACTUALLY a PHARM GRADE product (like HUMATROPE) which K would like Meso members to believe he produced! He CLEARLY DID NOT!
(I say "most assuredly" because another test called a protein/peptide sequence analysis would be required for absolute proof, the sample which MANDS had assayed was certainly rHGH, with very rare exceptions)

Now I say that with all confidence because would a lab whom was making a PH grade GH product be selling it for $2 bucks an IU as an UGL,
when it easily sells for $10 bucks an IU at your local Pharm, F no!

Now what makes me even more convinced he hasn't produced or is selling such a high end GH product is NONE of the evidence (like KARLS tests) supports that contention.
(And that's excluding K contradictions rightfully mentioned by LS, that are rife throughout this thread)

Good God man he doesn't even do a MS or a protein sequence analysis, which PROVEs the quality of any GH product.
(Sorry I get so peeved about this crap)

Oh yea and I've seen the before AND described the process earlier in this thread.

Initial buyers will probably receive a high grade although diluted GH product from K but within SIX MONTHS
when everyone is talking about " K's
GH" the quality WILL fall precipitously yet K will defend his product using early testimonials AND a few lab tests performed by mates on the good stuff, when it was being sold.

My advice if he is selling a good GH product it will be NOW, but as LS suggested if things don't add up (don't believe bozo's that say SIDE EFFECTS are proof the GH is GTG, that's pure garbage) have it tested.

Although a serum GH is better than nothing for sure the unequivocal proof lies in testing the vial content as MANDS had done.

Got it?

 

[Western-Biotech]

So I ask u again - you claim that each pharma company uses protein sequence in their production ? it is necessary to asses the purity of productions ?

To whom exactly I sold diluted product ? show me one serum test which is not perfect , more then a dozen have been done already ? all random orders !

And what is exactly my interest to fuck the quality after 6 months ? after investing in my technology and facility ? what is the rational here ?

 

[muscle96ss]

Ok here it is in a nut shell.

Karl has yet to prove he is selling GH, IMO

WHY bc the tests he has posted are NOT CW GH!

MANDS did perform an analysis on a compound which was most assuredly GH BUT evidence I've reviewed shows this was ACTUALLY a PHARM GRADE product (like HUMATROPE) which K would like Meso members to believe he produced! He CLEARLY DID NOT!

Now I say that with all confidence because would a lab whom was making a PH grade GH product be selling it for $2 bucks an IU as an UGL,
when it easily sells for $10 bucks an IU at your local Pharm, F no!

Now what makes me even more convinced he hasn't produced or is selling such a high end GH product is NONE of the evidence (like KARLS tests) supports that contention.
(And that's excluding K contradictions rightfully mentioned by LS, that are rife throughout this thread)

Good God man he doesn't even do a MS or a protein sequence analysis, which PROVEs the quality of any GH product.
(Sorry I get so peeved about this crap)

Oh yea and I've seen the before AND described the process earlier in this thread.

Initial buyers will probably receive a high grade although diluted GH product from K but within SIX MONTHS
when everyone is talking about " K's
GH" the quality WILL fall precipitously yet K will defend his product using early testimonials AND a few lab tests performed by mates on the good stuff, when it was being sold.

My advice if he is selling a good GH product it will be NOW, but as LS suggested if things don't add up (don't believe bozo's that say SIDE EFFECTS are proof the GH is GTG, that's pure garbage) have it tested.

Although a serum GH is better than nothing for sure the unequivocal proof lies in testing the vial content as MANDS had done.

Got it?

So bascially what you are saying is that the product that mands tested is of pharm grade quality and you believe that it was not produced by Karl and was actually manufactured by a pharm company(i.e. Humatrope) and then passed along to us with the intention of later down the road once everyone is sold on it of changing to it to krapp GH(or diluting it) to make a big profit?

If that is what you are saying, can you please explain the fact of the injection issues that mands, myself, and many others had with this first batch. In other words, if Karl was using a pre-produced product and claiming it to be his own, then why would there be issues with the GH exploding during shipping so that it is chunky instead of a lypholized puck and why would there be allergic or irritant reactions at the injection site. It actually seems pretty clear from what happened that it initially wasn't designed properly and not something an actual pharmaceutical company would do and something that an underground operation would do.

 

[Dr JIM]

Karl you should already KNOW how the purity of GH is defined, 191 AA in a specific sequence.

Where did I say YOU have already done this? (Diluted a product)

But come on I was born at night but it wasn't last night. UGLs dilute product to increase the financial windfall.

So you or anyone else sells a "10 IU vial" that only includes 8 IU, believing the customer won't notice. And initially they don't notice but GREED has a way of catching up with the greedy, because before one knows it that 10IU vial now only contain 2IU.

Now one doesn't need to understand protein sequencing of GEPs to know the profit margin just INCREASED 500%, cool, NOT.

Oh crap that won't matter bc those involved will only state they "sold" their GH production operations months ago and thereafter deny culpability.

Now K you know the ins and outs of the UGL business much better than myself, so why don't you expound upon my one example and inform Meso mates of other mechanisms used by UGLs to screw people especially when GH is involved.

Hey have you began a "group buy" or "lower limit purchase requirement" yet? If so why is that?

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Mands tests confirmed 99.5% purity by an authorized independent university in the USA, the doc may have specific complaint to the tests I posted, he's wrong, I'll give him all the attention to prove him wrong anyhow.

He is right and you've already admitted it. Now you are changing your story and saying he's wrong. This is a prime example of the inconsistent statements you've been accused of giving.

Gosh I'm sorry to keep reporting but where is your "control" marker in the SEC and from what I'm seeing here the MW of all pods (blue lines) rest BETWEEN 17-20 KD!
That's a REAL problem bc rHGH should have a MW of 22 Kd?
Look at MANDS PEP for comparison...... yep 22Kd

Nope the MW marker is considered the meniscus of the gel K and although most have a poorly demarcated meniscus the BEST example is NUMBER FOUR and it lies BETWEEN a. MW of 17 and 20.
There is no way looking at marker four one would surmise it lies between the 20-25 MW markers.

Regarding the numbers on the SDS-page - you're of course right and I'm wrong, lucky us Mands found on our GH that we made it somehow perfectly on 22.106,

Lightspan and Dr. Jim : So if I were to read the cliff notes of whats going on, would this be an accurate summary?

The GH that mands tested is great GH and everything Karl claims it to be. However, you both do not agree with the manner in which Karl is doing his QA or the data he has provided. In other words, if he continues to send out the same GH that mands tested then we are all good but you have doubts that this will continue.

The take-home message is that the GH sample Mands submitted for testing is a pharmaceutical grade hGH. The GH that Karl tested is is not only *NOT* pharmaceutical grade, it's NOT even GH. What is is, I do not know but with a MW of 17 - 20, it's certainly not hGH.

What LS and Jim are saying is that Karl has not done the necessary QA needed to produce rhGH with the purity that was found in Mands tests. Karl has admitted that himself. Instead, he would have you believe that dumb luck was responsible for the GH in Mands sample having a MW of 22.106.

Regarding the numbers on the SDS-page - you're of course right and I'm wrong, lucky us Mands found on our GH that we made it somehow perfectly on 22.106,

Since nobody else has come out and spilled the beans yet, I will: The GH sample Mands submitted was almost certainly a brand name WHO/FDA approved rhGH. Since Karl's stated QA is nowhere near sufficient to produce GH that meets the level of purity found in Mands test - except by chance - well, I think you can figure out the rest.

[edit: Dr Jim beat me too it!]

 

[Western-Biotech]

Doc - I understand you concerns, and justify them.

I have here one major but though - I produce the GH from scratch (I don't purchase some raws through trhe net from China, and brew in the bathroom). As you know accomplishing the technology and building the facility and production line are the major cost of this product, and not the actual production, so I have no interest to fuck the quality, but to establish this as a long run profitable business (and unique if you let me).

I'll try to be here, and save no efforts to fulfill my responsibility, and increase my long run reputation, which goes hand in hand with the profit.

Time will tell, and I guess you'll wait for me in the corner, I'll do my best from my side, there are ;like a dozen of families which their income is depends on this, and so in the community which is starved for high quality GH

 

[Dr JIM]

I believe the latter was already explained, given TIME the quality WILL
decline, because it must..

Why bc the testing being done ensures the only quality product to be sold will be pharm grade.

Oh yea do you believe everyone will receive this Ph grade product, will I hope not bc labs that sell high end expensive products become experts at selective scamming.

Ensuring those vets who willingly or unknowingly advertise, continue to do so, until the bottom falls out an then everyone gets screwed, yet most of those "vet" had a pro-bono and enjoyable ride.

What I say will happen eventually and I'd bet Vegas on it!

Jim

 

[Western-Biotech]

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but honestly we should have no interest to fuck the quality, one who invest in such venture is certainly not counting of 6 months run away scam,

Lets enjoy from now the 6 months of great quality as u suggested, and we'll meet at the 7th months doc

I'll be happy if u trial us and give an opinion, u know what, don't even post, just enjoy high quality GH from a competitive price.

 

[muscle96ss]

Since nobody else has come out and spilled the beans yet, I will: The GH sample Mands submitted was almost certainly a brand name WHO/FDA approved rhGH. Since Karl's stated QA is nowhere near sufficient to produce GH that meets the level of purity found in Mands test - except by chance - well, I think you can figure out the rest.

[edit: Dr Jim beat me too it!]

So, if you are stating that Karl is sending out a brand name pharm grade GH then why is there injection issues with that same sample that was sent to mands? There is no logic to that accusation.

 

[Dr JIM]

I am hopeful one thing is realized as a result of this discussion which is; anyone whom posts isolated MS or even combined LC/MS data as evidence someone's GH is GTG is FOS.

Check out Eroids and discover how often a single MS is used as "proof" a particular GH product is GTG.

GH requires a remarkable degree of testing to prove ANYTHING.

What does ALL this testing cost?

Somewhere between 2-3K yet it's something I would demand from any company that is selling a substance, like GH, with such a huge profit margin.

If that "proof" is not available WALK!

But that's just my EVIDENCE and EXPERIENCE BASED OPINION, yet do remember I have no dog in this fight.

Regs
Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Injection issues? That's all you got (in spite of all the evidence to the contrary) whatever!

But it matters not, since you obviously WANT to believe K makes this product bc you are using it.

Will go for it, believe as you wish nothing I or anyone else says will change your mind.

But considering "MANDS injection issues" do you believe "this formula will need to be re-worked" also!

Jim

 

[lightspan]

Lightspan and Dr. Jim : So if I were to read the cliff notes of whats going on, would this be an accurate summary?

The GH that mands tested is great GH and everything Karl claims it to be. However, you both do not agree with the manner in which Karl is doing his QA or the data he has provided. In other words, if he continues to send out the same GH that mands tested then we are all good but you have doubts that this will continue.

That is an accurate summary.

So, if you are stating that Karl is sending out a brand name pharm grade GH then why is there injection issues with that same sample that was sent to mands? There is no logic to that accusation.

Ah, I had forgotten this. There was some handwavey "oxidizing excipient" explanation for the site injection pain. I've worked in the formulation space, that is a complete and utter bullshit explanation. Karl, what was this excipient that was so susceptible to oxidation that you used?

If an excipient were that susceptible to oxidation, it would not be used in a formulation. Period. No drug approval agency would ever approve an excipient that is chemically unstable, and no excipient manufacturer sells that sort of crap, because there is no market for it. If the excipients are the issue, Karl and his team need to go back to clown college and take the "how to formulate rHGH and make balloon animals" class. Again. Oddly enough, even if the sheep fucking professor is a world class biotech guy, he would be fairly clueless about formulations, it's a different art altogether.

If the material at issue had been transferred from, say, a pharma vial or pen insert into a new vial, and then lyophilized again, it could explain the problems with the "puck" exploding during transit due to the presence of residual solvent, and could also explain the site injection pain Poor lyophilization after transfer using an incorrectly prepared buffer (too acidic or basic) is a reasonable explanation for why the pucks "blew up" and there was site injection pain.

But let's give Karl the benefit of the doubt. Let's say it was an excipient issue. If so, these guys are pretty clueless and I wouldn't trust them to make me a balloon dog, much less an injectable formulation.

Order the shit. Don't order it. Again, I don't give a fuck, I have a stack of geno pens and I'll happily spend the kids' college fund to run it. The little bastards can go to community college, daddy needs his pharma gh.