Western-BioTech - Pharma quality GH

[Dr JIM]

Just a side note. Red welts is reported on serostim by the fda. So it's totally impossible to happen. As does genotropin. They also list a ton of other side effects like rapid heart beat ,fever, so saying a medication never has side effects is not a real accurate statement. I'm not saying none if what u said is possible but a lot if what has been said is a pretty big accusation​

If that's your analysis of what an ARTHUS reaction is, your in error!

And oh yea the chances of an ARTHUS RX occurring with rHGH is indeed VERY remote bc it's identical to endogenous lay produced GH.

The reactions are HIGHLY idiosyncratic while one patient may experience a gamut of signs and symptoms, another mate will only develop arthralgias and some have no complaints whatsoever.

There are some well a stablished RF for this reaction but suffice it to say if "you" have a history or allergies the prob of an A-RX increases.

Jim

 

[ufcguy32]

I'm not talking about arthus reaction. I'm talking the reactions listed on the site of serostim. And you are right they are not talking about that type of reaction. I don't think anyone here claimed the red welts were arthus reactions that I remember.

 

[muscle96ss]

ill go on the record and say I habe no idea, but just imagine the money to be made once he switches to generic dogshit he might pay $30 for 100iu that he is selling for $200 a pop minimum two per order... at multiple forums he is aggressively promoting at right now. ab, pm, olm, meso.... big fucking bucks on the back end.

I guess what I was trying to say is that if he has the equipment to relypholize the powder then I assume that same equipment could lypholize the powder as well. Therefore what more equipment would be needed other than raw material to actually produce his own GH.

 

[lightspan]

I guess what I was trying to say is that if he has the equipment to relypholize the powder then I assume that same equipment could lypholize the powder as well. Therefore what more equipment would be needed other than raw material to actually produce his own GH.

The cost of the equipment to re bottle is minimal. The cost to produce gh is high. Big difference.

Look, it doesn't matter one way or the other. If you want to try it out, give it a shot. It's like any other gear. What we know is that mands got gh. It tested as pharma grade.

When I ordered test a ways back, it came in a very slick looking bottle with nifty labels and looked very professional. I was told it was brewed in a hood, it probably was not. Probably brewed in someone's garage or kitchen. Turned out to be what the label said it was. Could have been Wesson had I ordered it a month later, some guys got burnt. Nature of the game. We buy, we test, we get bloods, and if a source goes south we make sure everyone knows ASAP. Until someone cries foul everything is peachy. Caveat emptor.

 

[Dr JIM]

I'm not talking about arthus reaction. I'm talking the reactions listed on the site of serostim. And you are right they are not talking about that type of reaction. I don't think anyone here claimed the red welts were arthus reactions that I remember.

But those red welts, like what one may observe, bc of TB screening, can be one of many Arthus RX manifestations.

The broad category which includes an Arthus Reaction, and is the hallmark of most "protein allergies", (and there are tens of thousands) are collectively referred to as "delayed/cellular hypersensitivity reactions". Yea it's more complex than that but I don't believe a more in depth discussion is needed, at this juncture anyway.

jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Lightspan=phd. Dr jim=phd. both think this is bullshit. karl= known scammer. Mands= well intentioned guy who is really starting to take a shine to censored boards to promote Karl's gh... maybe that's why he thinks he can have a say in what gets said around here. much more assertive stance for him during the bio debacle and I am amazed he would put his reputation on the line for free. good to go? kInda like a sexy bitch with aids... fuck her if you want boys- just don't cry when you need to shove a sock up your ass from getting Karl's dick shoved in it. Are people who get scammed always this fucking stupid?? Gtg? Gtg? Gtg? jesus fucking christ. Back into silence I go.

Thx Brute, but just to keep the record straight, I do not have a chemistry PhD, twas my original intention when I started college, but the research requirement and having to live in some lab, without interaction with humans, was just NOT appealing to me.

Of course I'M delighted some have found their niche in Pharmaceutical research and development, bc many of us are indebted to their efforts, in one way or another, whether we know it or not.

Regs
JIM

 

[Dr JIM]

I guess what I was trying to say is that if he has the equipment to relypholize the powder then I assume that same equipment could lypholize the powder as well. Therefore what more equipment would be needed other than raw material to actually produce his own GH.

Are U joking? Freeze drying is infants play compared to the other very high end technologically advanced equipment that is mandatory for rHGH production. For instance have you ever heard of plasmid insertion techniques, or yeast dependent terminal AA deletion/re-insertion?

And where are you going to locate those whom KNOW how to operate that equipment to ensure the production of a QUALITY PRODUCT?

Also where are you going to HIDE this production facility that requires at least 5K square feet. The Pfizer plant I am familiar with has 22k sq feet, half is used for R & D the remainder for "reproduction of Biologics".

Fella the list is endless as is the venture capital needed from the outset!

JIM

 

[Dr JIM]

I'm not talking about arthus reaction. I'm talking the reactions listed on the site of serostim. And you are right they are not talking about that type of reaction. I don't think anyone here claimed the red welts were arthus reactions that I remember.

There is absolutely NO COMPARISON between Pharm grade and "generic GH" with respect to the frequency, duration, severity and diversity of presumed "allergic" signs and symptoms noted with these "drugs".

I mean think about it guys, Ph grade is the same stuff the body produces and "generic" well, who knows what's in that stuff but I promise you, your BODY DOESN''T MAKE IT, and there is a considerable number of foreign proteins based on damn near every legitimate generic GH test I've seen.

jim

 

[Western-Biotech]

I've never seen a bunch of guys who stray so far away from the truth based on their fantasies ....

So we took pharma grade product and rebottled it ? to 100 customer ?

There were allergic reaction in some users which took a couple of days to subside, this issue is 100% solved, there were zero reports for this in the beginning of usage by 100% of the users, and you may follow my thread on other forum, as well as ask users from this forum, but with time this allergic reaction developed, we speculate that it has to be due to internal reaction to the hot weather in transportation, and as I said already it's solved by a new formula. By no means such allergic reaction should appear, and these products are replaced, again you may confirm this. Any serum test, as well as lab test (I know as for today that another forum will have MS tests very soon) confirmed conclusively the purity and quality we stated on, these are fact, in oppose to the science fiction which is constantly posted here by members who has never ordered somastim, and post shit for the purpose of posting something

However I'm here with my professor, and my assumption that purity of 98% may be based on SDS-page only is not valid ! my apologies. We use 3 different tests in combination (like showed already) to determine the purity, this is the standard procedure in BTG (Bio Technology General) - a renowned pharma company in their production line. MS or AA sequence may be used of course, and is interesting from the scientific point of view but they won't add anything to the set of tests we're using, they'll just confirm the results we established.

I'll have a summery from my professor soon, and will post it.

As promised I'll be after weekend physically in our facility to take some pics

 

[Western-Biotech]

We all know that no "generic"/"UG" product of GH may provide the quality the users deserves.

I claim we do, and so far it's confirmed beyond any doubt.

If any one here has any doubts I guess the best way to know, considering that my concept of offering pharma grade for fraction the cost in the pharmacy, the only way to know is to place a trial order, and test it, I've been giving u all the incentives to do so.

I find it pointless, useless and counterproductive to this community to make some science fiction assumptions based on nonsense, like few loud members here have done, instead of simply test us.

If the evidence so far don't justify it, then I don't know what is ? I mean honestly .....

There are more posts here which contribute solely to the ego of the one who posted them, and has nothing to do with reality, then doing the actual right things which is careful examination and testing to the Somastim. If you're a serious community who likes to get the quality it deserves for a competitive price, make trial tests from any kind by any standards, just bla bla for the sake of bla bla is a shame to this forum, and I know that 95%+ of readers of this thread agree with me

 

[ufcguy32]

So let me ask this. If Karl is so dishonest why would he try and fix the problem he had with scitropin. Why not just close shop say fuck u and not offer gear or anything. Change his name and open as a new sponsor and start over? What I see is someone trying to make things right. Is there inconsistencies yes but I think this is more due to lack of knowledge than anything. He's a business man not a scientist. I know we don't have all the answers at this point but I think instead of going off on him testing is the best way to do it. My other question is why not just sell the so called gh he had. So if he had humatrope just sell it cheap. He'd have more people buying that than anything. I know.....I'm supposed to believe he's gonna switch it out in a few months right? Then someone will flip out test it and this time he will lose all customers. It just doesn't make sense to me

 

[Western-Biotech]

I'm not aware to one inconsistency, what inconsistency ? If I said we base the purity on SDS-page (which is partially true), then when suggested I'm wrong, I immediately said that I will consult with my professor and get back with an authorized reply. I'm not an analytic chemist, and not pretend to be, but I'm the head of my team, who has best analytic chemist, so if you address any question it'll be answered by the most professional way. If I gave an info which is not valid I immediately apologized and corrected it. My responsibility is to give u highest quality product, and honest and professional info, nothing less -

Next post is the explanation on our QA process from my professor

 

[Western-Biotech]

To whom it may concern

Quality check of recombinant human growth hormone purity and biological activity.

1. The concentration of the hormone is determined by absorbance at 280 nm, assuming that 1 mg/ml will result in absorbance of 0.74. This value was calculated by a program of DNAman company.
   
   
2. The purity of the protein is determined by SDS-PAGE in presence of reducing agent which shows the purity and the approximate molecular mass of the protein. However as SDS-PAGE is conducted in presence of detergent (SDS) it does not distinguish between non-covalent oligomers or dimers. Therefore we also test the protein by size exclusion chromatography (SEC) in buffer pH 8 without detergent which is capable to show whether the tested protein is a pure monomer. Once both tests are positive no additional test by Mass Spectrometry (MS) is required. However MS tests were occasionally performed and when tested they always showed over 95-98% purity and the expected molecular mass of about 22106 or 22130 Da. Please note that in some cases the stained molecular mass standards are not accurate. Thus for example molecular mass standards showed inaccurate molecular mass of hGH of ~19 kDa, while mass spectrometry of the same sample (in two tests) showed molecular mass of 22,106 and 22,130 Dalton compared to the theoretical value of 22,124 Dalton.
   
   
3. The biological activity is tested in FDC-P1-9D11 cells stably transfected with human growth hormone receptor as described by Solomon et al. (2006) Growth Hormone & IGF Research 16 , 297–307. Compared to other commercially available recombinant human growth hormones (from Serono) our preparations exhibit identical or even slightly higher biological activity.
   

 

[Western-Biotech]

I repeat - a pharma company makes precisely the 3 phases QA process that we follow. The manufacturing process requires certain validation based on the industry experience, and though a mess spec is interesting from the scientific point of view, especially when asses a sample for examination like Mands did, but not required in our process.

If anyone one has the slightest doubt he may purchase anonymously Somastim, and make mess spec to confirm the purity and potency we declare, I'm here to back it up.

In the history of Meso, or anywhere on the UG scene no supplier ever made available for your service an analytical chemist to explain, answer and confirm any detail you may need, so pls address any question, or issue,

 

[lightspan]

However I'm here with my professor, and my assumption that purity of 98% may be based on SDS-page only is not valid ! my apologies.

THIS.

Karl, you spent the better part of three pages stating the contrary position, supporting it with ad hominem attacks, baseless pseudoscientifc explanations, claiming I was wrong, didn't know what I was talking about, copying and pasting from wikipedia, etc. Now? Oh, yeah, um, apologies!

Credibility. You lack it. You are willing to say whatever you believe is necessary to support your product. See above. This is why we are all over you like white on rice. If you are making spurious claims that I know to be false and misleading, I will call you out. It's not personal, it's about respect for the truth.

What is interesting is that you defended a materially false assertion so aggressively, even when called to task about the science behind your statements. It speaks volumes.

Again, buy the shit, don't buy the shit. Makes no difference to me.

 

[Western-Biotech]

My first comment to your claim (check back) is that you'll get an authorize reply to your claim ASAP. Later when checking SDS-page info I validated my claims by a google search but was partially wrong indeed, I did anyhow check ASAP with my chemist and got back to you with an apology and clarification. Not sure where I was wrong, but if I did I apologize, we conduct here a conversation, in contrast to anyone here I back up my claims, and again if I'm proved wrong I apologize. No SRC will stand here, address any issue you raise and provide you with valid info afterall, so if this is the respect you show to me I'm not sure what to say.

I would never attack u personally, I said I admire your knowledge (again check back), If you have any interest to serve this community you would have tested the Somastim anonymously and provide valid data, looking with magnifying glass after each word I post and search for a slight mistake don't serve anything but your ego, you know I'm not an analytic chemist, so it's enough to tell me to check a claim of mine with my professor and get an authorized reply, and no need to make endless post try to shame me, this won't help you to get better product or better service.

I said I'll check for u the SDS-page, I did so devotedly this weekend, I came back with an apology and explanation, I appreciate the remark on this issue, and it all help us to get more knowledge in this filed.

It doesn't matter fuck about the quality of the Somastim which proved to be of 98%+ purity, test us and give an opinion instead of hiding behind a technical detail.

 

[ufcguy32]

I agree. Id like to see a test done by the ones who have the most knowledge. Get it anonymously and have it tested to the standards you think are necessary.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

It looks like Karl took a stab at this GH nonsense last year under the brand name Scitropin. The venture was unsuccessful so it appears he is attempting the same thing under a new label, Western-BioTech.

[apologies for all the images - PM mods love to lock threads when sponsors are on the ropes]

Interestingly, K can't seem to decide on where his Scitropin was made - China or Korea:

08-25-2013, 05:20 PM

the SciTropin is made in China. this product simply can't be manufactured legally in the USA by us. We have our production line and the products are made according to our strict quality assurance inspection.

11-11-2013, 05:43 PM

Thank u for your specified update,

The Scitropin is manufactured in our GMP facility in Korea, and will match the strictest USP/parallel standards.

With the skill of a snake oil salesman, Karl attempts to reconcile these inconsistent statements:

Seems W-B is having the same problems as Scitropin, including the red welts:

04-27-2014, 08:11 AM
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/members/readyset.html

Registered Member

i believe the old test. The first batch of Scitropin I ordered back in october was good.. great even..

I'm pretty sure they gave him the ol' switcheroo - once demand gets up, swap out for a shitty product - we've seen that a thousand times before. The sources need to get their tests done independently. I think there's way too much trust floating around between sources and suppliers.. especially in the chinese gh market - tests need to be done repeatedly. I'd be willing to pay more as an end user for a consistently independently tested product.

I mean - i've had bad GH before - but this was ridiculous. I've NEVER experienced pain or welts like that in 6+ years of consistent GH use.

I dont know how much I believe some of the other claims "korean GMP facility.." etc... Just seemed far fetched to me, but I trusted him. I got burned. I wont make that mistake again. I just wish my state wasnt so uptight about bloodwork.. $650! you kidding me? then if i go through my insurance I'll probably lose my job. So thanks to the guys who do this for us.
​

The similarities are striking. Same shit, different pile.

Once again, Karl seems confused about where his GH is being made:

03-09-2014, 01:29 PM

The product is manufactured in our GMP facility in Korea and withstand with the strictest USP quality assurance standards
It was also lab tested with a mess spec by HPLC on other major forum by local university - Pictures - Scritropin Mass Spec

04-28-2014, 01:02 AM

 

[Western-Biotech]

The SciTropin was made in Korea first, and after some issues with local customs we moved the production to China, hundreds of customer may testify that orders first landed by EMS from Korea and then from Hong Kong

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

The SciTropin was made in Korea first, and after some issues with local customs we moved the production to China, hundreds of customer may testify that orders first landed by EMS from Korea and then from Hong Kong

Oops!