Rofl.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
What’s the current state of generic GH
- Thread starter Zeus088
- Start date
Ateam2023
Member
i read that, and i won't pretend i understand it, but i was able to grasp a portion of the idea, And will continue to follow along in the hopes it gets easier to understand, This is a very sensitive subject and may require more research and knowledge , I am glad there are a few "pioneers" leading the crusade, looking forward to the "end results" when they are presented,, Thanks ,,Based on what Jano shared above (linked), yes. That is my understanding.
Nice overview of the methods...
Size-Exclusion Chromatography for the Analysis of Protein Biotherapeutics and their Aggregates - PMC
In recent years, the use and number of biotherapeutics has increased significantly. For these largely protein-based therapies, the quantitation of aggregates is of particular concern given their potential effect on efficacy and immunogenicity. This ...pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Ghoul
Member
I don't think it'll ever end brother, nor should it.
But I encourage you to ask about anything that's unclear. Not only do those of us pursuing this in good faith not consider any question "stupid", but the questions force us to reevaluate what we think we already know, sometimes revealing an error or providing a new perspective that leads to information not previously considered.
We're all "citizen scientists" here and this is a group effort with room for everyone to contribute.
And kudos to you for fleshing out exactly what and how we would test. That was the big failure I made with the endotoxin testing for oils and challenge of trying to run an R&D project over a forum.
The method has to be properly qualified and calibrated prior to data generation. We may conclude we don't have the appropriate method to get accurate aggregate numbers. But at least everyone will learn something and we won't go down a rabbit hole needlessly this time.
Thank you.
Bump out of pure respect.
Good to know if we need a Porsche but only have access to a Yugo. No disrespect intended on the Yugo.
Flow Imaging Microscopy for Protein Particle Analysis—A Comparative Evaluation of Four Different Analytical Instruments - PMC
Flow imaging microscopy was introduced as a technique for protein particle analysis a few years ago and has strongly gained in importance ever since. The aim of the present study was a comparative evaluation of four of the most relevant flow imaging ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Ghoul
Member
Nothing needless about your efforts. Harm reduction seemed to stagnate for a long while here, and you stimulated a lot of people to start thinking about how to make things better than they currently are.
I love going back 15 years in the MESO archives and see how standards moved forward, in spurts, messy, argumentative, and always with resistance.
I like to keep in mind our best efforts are still going to look idiotic and dangerous compared to how harm reduction is practiced ten years from now.
Ghoul
Member
Bump out of pure respect.
Good to know if we need a Porsche but only have access to a Yugo. No disrespect intended on the Yugo.
Flow Imaging Microscopy for Protein Particle Analysis—A Comparative Evaluation of Four Different Analytical Instruments - PMC
Flow imaging microscopy was introduced as a technique for protein particle analysis a few years ago and has strongly gained in importance ever since. The aim of the present study was a comparative evaluation of four of the most relevant flow imaging ...pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
TBH micro flow inspection looks like child's play compared to what Jano does with chromatography.
MFI may not be a piece of gear Jano has, but he probobly has access to it.
AlexDavis43
Member
Just to make sure everyone is on the same page (I need some reminding myself):
There is an actual study about GH aggregates (what we've been calling "dimer"), immunogenicity, and hGH therapy (summarized here) (Moore and Leppert, 1980).
Tl;dr: hGH with high aggregates (high "dimer") didn’t cause more immunogenicity than hGH with low dimer. And presence of GH antibodies didn’t affect hGH efficacy.
As mentioned above, some pharma GH has high dimer and plenty people here who use pharma GH say it has fewer side effects than low dimer UGL.
I'm sure that confused the shit out of some people. Perhaps someone else can do a better "Tl;dr:" to explain all the fuss with GH dimer (aggregates).
There is an actual study about GH aggregates (what we've been calling "dimer"), immunogenicity, and hGH therapy (summarized here) (Moore and Leppert, 1980).
Tl;dr: hGH with high aggregates (high "dimer") didn’t cause more immunogenicity than hGH with low dimer. And presence of GH antibodies didn’t affect hGH efficacy.
As mentioned above, some pharma GH has high dimer and plenty people here who use pharma GH say it has fewer side effects than low dimer UGL.
I'm sure that confused the shit out of some people. Perhaps someone else can do a better "Tl;dr:" to explain all the fuss with GH dimer (aggregates).
Just to give you a little taste of how complex all this is just for the pharma products aka "biosimilars":
Required reading before you consider UG GH just so you have an appreciation.
And this was just part of the story getting Omnitrope approved vs Genotropin.
Biosimilars: controversies as illustrated by rhGH
Ask your UG vendor about his or her HCPs' testing and QC program today. It ain't all just aggregates of somatropin monomer. Get familiar with your UG lab's downstream purification process.
Required reading before you consider UG GH just so you have an appreciation.
And this was just part of the story getting Omnitrope approved vs Genotropin.
Biosimilars: controversies as illustrated by rhGH
Ask your UG vendor about his or her HCPs' testing and QC program today. It ain't all just aggregates of somatropin monomer. Get familiar with your UG lab's downstream purification process.
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HCPs? Glad you asked...
ref 40
Risks Associated with HCPs
Search for the term HCPs on MESO. What do you find?
Monitoring process-related impurities in biologics–host cell protein analysis - PMC
During biologics development, manufacturers must demonstrate clearance of host cell impurities and contaminants to ensure drug purity, manufacturing process consistency, and patient safety. Host cell proteins (HCPs) are a major class of ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ref 40
Host-Cell Protein Measurement and Control
This article reviews the definition of HCPs, risks posed by HCPs, regulatory concerns, commonly accepted ELISA methods for HCP measurement and their limitations, and orthogonal methods available for HCP characterization.
www.biopharminternational.com
Risks Associated with HCPs
Search for the term HCPs on MESO. What do you find?
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Sounds like you guys are on the right track.
As someone mentioned above. No matter the outcome everyone in the community will learn something from your efforts.
Later people can reference your results when this topic comes back up. If they have concerns or new ideas they can use your data to build on that by refining their own testing parameters.
As someone mentioned above. No matter the outcome everyone in the community will learn something from your efforts.
Later people can reference your results when this topic comes back up. If they have concerns or new ideas they can use your data to build on that by refining their own testing parameters.
iris
New Member
I think your advocating measurable outcomes, in real terms, is reasonable.
Looking not only for theoretical data but also practical verifiability for one's own purposes is fair, if the means to carry that out are available.
This test will be very interesting.
@Ghoul
Have you started your fan club and monthly newsletter yet? You got some big fans at SST and especially AlexDavis. AD43 for Fan Club President?
Practical knowledge.
Have you started your fan club and monthly newsletter yet? You got some big fans at SST and especially AlexDavis. AD43 for Fan Club President?
Practical knowledge.
Ghoul
Member
@Ghoul
Have you started your fan club and monthly newsletter yet? You got some big fans at SST and especially AlexDavis. AD43 for Fan Club President?
Practical knowledge.
Going to SST to find validation for their hatred of me is reminiscent of loser drunks whining from the safety of a dive bar that no one at work appreciates their brilliance.
Revealing their cowardice, afraid to be held accountable for their words on the forum the target of their crying actually is.
Rakusa
Member
What's the reason for some people to report HGH #1 gives them good sleep, while HGH #2 wrecks their sleep? Considering both are sitting around near the same exact purity of lets say 98%.
Different reaction to it.
Dose is important too, at high dosage GH during the night doesn't give me that rock sleep feel plus it depends on what other substance you are on.
Reta wreck my sleep so I could attribute the issue to the GH when in reality it's not.
Ghoul
Member
The latest guidelines recommend doctors monitor for disordered breathing during sleep after GH treatment is started.
Based on this, the only plausible theory I can think of is:
1: There's a lot more going on with the HGH being injected by the user than the purity level, usually taken months ago by the vendor.
TLDR for any number of reasons using the "same" dose of HGH, each testing 99% purity, potency can still vary from one product to the next. One might have rapid drop off in purity, so 99% becomes 90% by the time it's in the syringe, or another causes a high level of immunogenic reaction lowering the effectiveness due to aggregates or contaminants in a cheap, unwashed dirty vial.
2. We know HGH improves lung function. Unfortunately deeper breathing can trigger obstructive apnea in vulnerable individuals, disrupting sleep.
So ironically, it could be that one vendor's "good" HGH, where a 5iu dose is working like 5iu, is improving lung function to the point an existing vulnerability to sleep apnea is triggered by the change in breathing, while 5ius of the "crap" HGH is weaker, working more like 3ius, enough to improve sleep, but not boosting lung function to the point apnea is triggered.
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Trenbolonetax
Member
Just received a portion of my lobster order. I submitted payment on 3/4. Received tracking numbers 3/5. 2 china, 1 intl express (upgraded free; ty).
Some of the most prompt communication I've encountered with a vendor. Opened package today and was delighted. Some of the best looking believable stealth I've seen. You can tell he takes a lot of pride in his product and work, and I can really appreciate that. It really shows.
I have been notified of tracking updates and generally kept in the loop with what was happening.
This experience with the peps (reta, tirz, sema) has me now really considering a GH purchase. Also eyeing those geno pens for $160...is generic GH the same as pharma? I have my opinion on that.
Does pharma GH improve my sleep whereas generic does not? I don't know...I'd have to try it...
Some of the most prompt communication I've encountered with a vendor. Opened package today and was delighted. Some of the best looking believable stealth I've seen. You can tell he takes a lot of pride in his product and work, and I can really appreciate that. It really shows.
I have been notified of tracking updates and generally kept in the loop with what was happening.
This experience with the peps (reta, tirz, sema) has me now really considering a GH purchase. Also eyeing those geno pens for $160...is generic GH the same as pharma? I have my opinion on that.
Does pharma GH improve my sleep whereas generic does not? I don't know...I'd have to try it...
AlexDavis43
Member
Ask ChatGPT xD
Ateam2023
Member
Is Lobster still doing the 10 kits deal? Does anybody know?
