Why bother filtering?

[TownTX]

Yes i intend for this to be a serious discussion. Not a shit show of, bro if you don't filter you're an asshole ect.

Most people seem to think that BA is useful only to stop the development of bacteria. But from research it seems that benzyl alcohol is a more than capable disinfectant. Its listed in the British Veterinary Association's veterinary formulary as being a capable disinfectant.

Now lets look at a study of Benzyl Alcohol placed in a vial with bacteria.

By: SV-1

Development of a Multidose Formulation for a Humanized Monoclonal Antibody Using Experimental Design Techniques

"The efficacy of the preservative against various microorganisms was measured using a modified USP/EP PET (referred to as preservative screening test in this document). Tests were conducted at Microconsult Inc (Dallas, TX). In the procedure, formulations were tested against the following microorganisms: Escherichia coli, Staphylococcus aureus, Pseu***onas aeruginosa, Candida albicans, and Aspergillus niger. The 3 bacterial strains were inoculated together at a total concentration of ~105 cfu/mL, as were the 2 fungi. Samples were incubated for 7 days at room temperature (25°C), and the total bacterial and fungal counts were measured using a colony counter. The log reduction (LR) values for the bacterial and fungal counts were calculated as log (initial count/final count)."

"Results of the preservative screening tests showed that the formulations containing 0.75% and 0.5% benzyl alcohol are potential candidates to meet the USP/EP criteria (Table 4). Both formulations demonstrated a complete kill of the tested bacterial and fungal species after 7 days. For all other samples, either the total bacterial count after 7 days was too numerous to count, or no effective reduction in the bacterial count was observed."

"benzyl alcohol caused significant aggregation at high concentrations (≥1.0%); however, it was the most effective preservative in maintaining antimicrobial efficacy against bacteria and fungi."

This one isn't related to AAS but shows BA's capability at destroying most forms of bacteria.

http://www.processdevelopmentforum.com/files/tips/PDFForJune18.pdf

The air we breathe contains over 1800 different kinds of bacteria.

Now lets look at how vials are sterilized in most home brew operations.

1. They are placed in the oven at a pre-set temperature, each covered with a piece of tin foil.
2. Stoppers are baked in the oven at a pre-set temperature and usually dipped in benzyl alcohol.
3. Once vials are cool the foil tops are taken off the vials one by one and the rubber stopper placed on each vial.
4. The oil is injected into each vial using a needle, syringe filter and vent needle.

Lets get back to the point that is in bold text above. The air CONTAINS over 1800 different kinds of bacteria...

As soon as the foil is removed from each vial the entire inner part of the vial is exposed to 1800 different kinds of bacteria. This is an IMMEDIATE process and know matter how quick you do it, its still exposed.

So we basically sterilize vials and stoppers, only to expose them to thousands of different kinds of bacteria after sterilization. We also sterilize our oil, only to inject it into already contaminated glass enclosures.

Unless you are using sterile vials that you have bought which have already been sterilized in an autoclave and sealed, it seems pointless to filter the oil. My understanding is that vials are capped with the stopper before they go into an autoclave. To prevent what i am discussing in this post.

So considering most people don't get infections from UGL steroids. It seems that the benzyl alcohol probably does 99% of the disinfecting. Considering most UGL's don't invest thousands in autoclaves and expensive equipment.

Lets discuss... Bro science aside please. I'd like this to be an intelligent discussion, not a shit show.

 

[Iron Frenchie]

Is this @master.on new account?

 

[TownTX]

Is this @master.on new account?

Did i choose the wrong forum for this discussion? Sorry my mistake. I assumed this place actually had knowledgeable members who appreciated intelligent discussion.

Maybe i should take this over to a science forum and get some actual informed opinions on this matter.

I don't have any issue with filtering steroids. Its a simple procedure, but when you look at the facts, it just doesn't make sense.

No, I'm not master.on, whoever the fuck that is.

 

[Evom1]

I think if you wanted a truly accurate answer from a reputable source, if you're sincerely trying to research, Contact a pharmaceutical company and say you're writing a research paper and were hoping they could explain to you why in a clean setting in the presence of BA would their compounds need to be filtered to ensure sterility

 

[Kindlife]

Seriously...if u dont wanna filter what u are injecting into your body then that's your choice. But PLEASE dont sell non filtered gear to other people. Its not safe. Sure u can half ass your brew and think BA and baking the shit outta it in the oven makes it safe like some ppl do and maybe even get away with no infections for a very long time. But you're taking a risk that could cost you a chunk of your muscle gettin cut out, losing an arm or leg, or even losing your life. Me personally (and i hope every supplier out there) ill spend a few extra bucks and a few extra minutes to make sure what i inject into my body is clean, sterile, and safe. Cuz i promise you the way u described does not make your brew 100% sterile. Plain n simple.

 

[LeoTC]

BA doesn't remove particulates from your oil. I'm not cool pinning dust, pollen, hair/fur fragments and the like...

 

[Kindlife]

BA doesn't remove particulates from your oil. I'm not cool pinning dust, pollen, hair/fur fragments and the like...

Exactly. You can see the shit in there with the naked eye. Imagine how much bacteria u cant see is in there. And Evom said it perfect. Ask a pharma company that compounds it if thats safe. Or ask a kid in a high school chemistry class. They both will know better than to not filter an injectable medication.lol. Seriously though...be safe bro. Filtering is cheap and simple. There's no reason not to take that step in your brew. Its mandatory not optional. Dont give ppl the idea that Its not. People will end up hurting themselves.

 

[TownTX]

Great replies but contacting a pharma company is a waste of time. Because the environment of a pharmaceutical lab is vastly different than that of an UGL. If you read my full posts you will see what i mean. None of these posts answer my actual question. I'm not saying that filtering gear is not necessary in the right settings, to remove particle contamination and to make the finished product sterile. But in the average home brew setup i just don't see how it helps anything in regards to sterilization.

If a pharma company was making 10ml injectable vials. They would be working in an enclosed room. Completely sealed off from outside air. 24 hours a day clean, filtered air would be pumped in to the space and old air pumped out.

This simply does not work in an underground laboratory. Because we sterilize our stoppers in the oven, our vials in the oven then after cooling we put the stopper on the vial. Exposing the vials to over 1800 different forms of bacteria before sealing them.

When buying already sterile vials, say off ebay its a great idea to filter. Assuming the vials have been sterilized correctly with the stoppers already on the vials in an autoclave. But when sterilizing your own vials, i just don't see how filtration helps keep the finished product sterile.

So to conclude, what is the point of filtering steroids, making the liquid sterile, only to inject it into vials that have been exposed to air containing 1800 plus types of bacteria. See my point? Pharma companies don't expose the vials to unfiltered air, that difference makes a huge difference!

All i can think of is that benzyl alcohol basically kills all the bacteria that is in the vials. In the average UGL product.

 

[ickyrica]

Fuck outta here with this nonsense. Half a brain cell answers this question.

bro if you don't filter you're an asshole

this is the answer. 100% of the time this is the answer.

 

[Evom1]

If you're going to eat your girls ass and she just took a shit, why bother having her wipe or shower when you're licking an asshole that potentially still has millions of bacteria your tongue may come in contact with? See my point? Why have her shower first?


Do you get what I'm saying? You want to cut down on every possible risk. Yes there may be some risks you can't eliminate, but that doesn't mean fuck it why bother at all.

 

[Kindlife]

So u cant figure out how to be sure your vial is sterile and your solution is to put unfiltered gear in it and hope the BA sterilizes the vial and sterilizes the oil. Smdh. The best advice anyone here is gonna give u is this bro....Buy your gear premade. Dont homebrew anymore. Or at least do a lot more research and listen to ppl more experienced than yourself. Be safe and take honest advice. We all got plenty to learn.

 

[Kindlife]

If you're going to eat your girls ass and she just took a shit, why bother having her wipe or shower when you're licking an asshole that potentially still has millions of bacteria your tongue may come in contact with? See my point? Why have her shower first?


Do you get what I'm saying? You want to cut down on every possible risk. Yes there may be some risks you can't eliminate, but that doesn't mean fuck it why bother at all.

Fukin perfectly said..lmao

 

[TownTX]

Sorry guys, my mistake, you're all a bunch of retarded idiots.

I'll take this elsewhere, somewhere that people actually look at the science behind what I'm saying, not the bro science

And for the idiots questioning my knowledge. I've been home brewing for the last 8 years. Never, and i mean NEVER had an infection from my home brew.

I always filter my gear. This post wasn't a should i or shouldn't i filter my gear. It was simply made to answer my question and broaden my understanding. I like to learn, understand and process information.

All i fucking wanted to know was what was killing all the bacteria in the vials. Because it sure wasn't the sterilization and filtering. Because as we have pointed out, even after filtering and sterilizing bottles and stoppers... Our vials are still FULL of bacteria before the oil goes in. Even after sterilization. So my point was, what was killing all that bacteria? If it was the benzyl alcohol then if the benzyl alcohol was a good enough disinfectant to kill numerous air borne bacteria's, then why wouldn't it be good enough to kill all bacteria in an unfiltered vial.

 

[TownTX]

@Kindlife What the hell are you talking about? It is not a case of "I don't know if my vial is sterile or not so i will put unfiltered oil in it" Its a case of i already know that my vial is not sterile before putting the oil in it.

Anyone with half a damn brain cell should already know that when anything sterile is exposed to unfiltered air, it is no longer sterile.

By the way, plenty of bacteria passes through even a .22um syringe filter membrane... Just incase you wasn't aware of that.

 

[ickyrica]

I'll take this elsewhere, somewhere that people actually look at the science behind what I'm saying,

If it was the benzyl alcohol then if the benzyl alcohol was a good enough disinfectant to kill numerous air borne bacteria's, then why wouldn't it be good enough to kill all bacteria in an unfiltered vial.

And for the idiots questioning my knowledge. I've been home brewing for the last 8 years.

Lol at this. Have you met mindless? He needs a friend too

 

[TownTX]

Lol at this. Have you met mindless? He needs a friend too

Fucking retard.

Well it’s all good little dude. You keep filtering your gear with syringe filters, thinking you’re actually sterilising it lol talk about mindless

 

[ickyrica]

Do some research on how we do things here. Then speak.

Btw, mindless touches children in creepy ways. Don't hang with him...

 

[Iron Frenchie]

@Kindlife What the hell are you talking about? It is not a case of "I don't know if my vial is sterile or not so i will put unfiltered oil in it" Its a case of i already know that my vial is not sterile before putting the oil in it.

Anyone with half a damn brain cell should already know that when anything sterile is exposed to unfiltered air, it is no longer sterile.

By the way, plenty of bacteria passes through even a .22um syringe filter membrane... Just incase you wasn't aware of that.

To answer your question you probably be fine. I shot drugs for years and I never used anything clean. Maybe 1 in every 10,000 shot you would get a infection. But is it worth the risk considering how much a hospital bill would be compared to a cheap filter. More then all of that it will give you peace of mind. If I didn’t filter I would constantly be a little nervous about every injection.

 

[ickyrica]

To answer your question you probably be fine. I shot drugs for years and I never used anything clean. Maybe 1 in every 10,000 shot you would get a infection. But is it worth the risk considering how much a hospital bill would be compared to a cheap filter. More then all of that it will give you peace of mind. If I didn’t filter I would constantly be a little nervous about every injection.

Dudes going to have a thread soon "my leg infection pls help!"

 

[TownTX]

To answer your question you probably be fine. I shot drugs for years and I never used anything clean. Maybe 1 in every 10,000 shot you would get a infection. But is it worth the risk considering how much a hospital bill would be compared to a cheap filter. More then all of that it will give you peace of mind. If I didn’t filter I would constantly be a little nervous about every injection.

Thank you for being the first one to actually spend the time on giving a meaningful response here.

But its not about whether i should filter or not. I plan to continue forward filtering all my gear.

The point of this thread was that i didn't understand how filtering gear, into an unsterile vial would actually be beneficial to keeping things sterile.

The fact of all this is that even if a vial is sterilized once its exposed to outside air its no longer sterilized. So my main point is, are we all filtering our steroids when in reality its the benzyl alcohol that kills 90% of the bacteria?

I wanted to discuss this shit not just hear. Bro just filter your gear.